What would you do?

LibertyChic · Apr 22, 2005

AimlessEMF said:
Did anybody else notice the 13 year old who said they would kill the neighbor?
HOLY MOSES!! That seems screwed up to me.

Yes, I did notice that. I felt a "rock" drop to the pit of my stomach too.

Ram · Apr 22, 2005

Rae said:
--Yes, and that's wrong. The death penalty should be eliminated.

How do you want to punish a serial killer? A serial killer rapist? A few years in jail? Have you heard of a serial killer in (some country in South America) who got a 12 year sentance for killing 40 children. He was back to his original ways once he was a free bird.

Rae said:
2. If you're saying a supernatural being would order an immoral act, that being is ordering evil just as much as a man ordering the same thing would be doing.

It depends on what you call god. How can you decide if something is immoral when ordered so by god? God is above law and society.

Ram · Apr 22, 2005

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win said:
I'll call 911.

Calling the brahman to arrest the brahman?

Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win · Apr 22, 2005

Ram said:
Calling the brahman to arrest the brahman?

The instrument used to call is Brahman too

Rae · Apr 22, 2005

How do you want to punish a serial killer? A serial killer rapist?

Life without parole, as it should be for all serious offenses. How do you want to punish someone who's been convicted of murder that he didn't commit?

Have you heard of a serial killer in (some country in South America) who got a 12 year sentance for killing 40 children

Nope. Links and citation, please. Plus, anti-death penalty doesn't equal "don't punish criminals." Please stop offering this straw man. It's insulting and inaccurate.

Murdering someone because he murdered is in no way moral or the right thing to do, especially since we all know that innocent people get convicted of crimes they didn't commit every day.

How can you decide if something is immoral

I have moral senses. If you're going to deal with us finite, limited humans, you're going to have to do so in a moral way. Now, if you're saying a God is acting in a certain way toward another God that we might call "immoral," well, that might be possible. But I have faith that no God would ever do what we humans call "evil" to us humans, your statements notwithstanding. You're not a God.

Ram · Apr 22, 2005

Rae said:
Life without parole, as it should be for all serious offenses. How do you want to punish someone who's been convicted of murder that he didn't commit?

Nope. Links and citation, please. Plus, anti-death penalty doesn't equal "don't punish criminals." Please stop offering this straw man. It's insulting and inaccurate.

Murdering someone because he murdered is in no way moral or the right thing to do, especially since we all know that innocent people get convicted of crimes they didn't commit every day.

The harsher punishments ensure lesser crime. Lineant sentences promote more crime. Simple. But I agree with your argument of innocents getting death sentences. IMO death sentence must be there and must be employed sparingly and used only in extraordinary cases.

Rae said:
I have moral senses. If you're going to deal with us finite, limited humans, you're going to have to do so in a moral way. Now, if you're saying a God is acting in a certain way toward another God that we might call "immoral," well, that might be possible. But I have faith that no God would ever do what we humans call "evil" to us humans, your statements notwithstanding. You're not a God.

God's ways are strange. We cannot understand. In my opinion, a child who is born handicapped appears to be an immoral act of god because it did nothing wrong to deserve it . But am I right? God does have his ways we cannot understand.

Rae · Apr 22, 2005

The harsher punishments ensure lesser crime.

No, my friend, they don't. The death penalty is not a deterrant according to any reliable studies out there. You want to know why? Because no one goes to commit a crime thinking that they're going to get caught!

Punishment will only deter if the criminal believes s/he will be caught.

IMO death sentence must be there

I vehemently disagree.

God's ways are strange. We cannot understand.

I think we can understand enough to know that no God would ever command that we do evil. Otherwise, why believe in God at all? Maybe God hates you and wants you to suffer, so "he" plays with you by saying you should kill innocent people.

Call me crazy, but I can't respect any deity-concept that allows for that kind of behavior.

Blackmarch · Apr 22, 2005

Ram said:
God appears to you in person and asks you kill your freindly neighbour whom you know to be a very good soul. What would you do?

Why did you choose that option?

#3
Because this one is not nearly as faithful as Abraham was. And one also trusts God, that He knows what he is doing.

Ram · Apr 22, 2005

Rae said:
No, my friend, they don't. The death penalty is not a deterrant according to any reliable studies out there. You want to know why? Because no one goes to commit a crime thinking that they're going to get caught!

Punishment will only deter if the criminal believes s/he will be caught.

I vehemently disagree.

I think we can understand enough to know that no God would ever command that we do evil. Otherwise, why believe in God at all? Maybe God hates you and wants you to suffer, so "he" plays with you by saying you should kill innocent people.

Call me crazy, but I can't respect any deity-concept that allows for that kind of behavior.

If anyone thinks death sentence is barbaric, life without parole is equally barbaric. Death releives earthly misery in a wink, so your intention is to torture the criminal for life? How is that compatible with morality?

All criminals are aware of getting caught and that is why they go to great lengths to cover up their crime.

raffster · Apr 22, 2005

Ram said:
God appears to you in person and asks you kill your freindly neighbour whom you know to be a very good soul. What would you do?

Why did you choose that option?

Why isn't there a selection "Punch God in the face for even suggesting this" ?

Abbadon · Apr 22, 2005

I'd do none of the above until I was completely sure it actually was God.

Then, I'd like to know the complete reasoning.

MachineGod · Apr 22, 2005

*God apears in brilliance never seen to my eyes*

God: "I am the Lord Almighty, creator of the heavens and the earth."(this would be important and if he did not start this way I would immediately ask him who he is.)

Me: "Holy Sh...err...Whoa! What took you so long, I..."

(after caca'ing my diapers He butts in...)

God: "Yes, whoa. Do that which I speak. Take this person (whoever) and kill them. I the Lord command you.

Me: "Whoa" says I..."hold on a couple tics...*shaking me head*..."let's sit a spell and get to know each other. As you no doubt know, I've a whole bunch of questions I..."

(He butts in again...)

God: "I am the Lord your God. Do that which I command you, for your neighor is evil though he seems good. You must punish evil for me, and serve my Justice, for he has trespassed against my Holy Law, and....."

And I can see this onesided conversation (mostly His) proceeding downhill rather quickly. Somewhere along this conversation I'd be questioning myself if I've gone mad...big time. I'd be looking to see if anyone else sees me and this God. And I'd think during the first few moments I'd be rather speachless and dumbstruck, paralysed, wondering if this Being can smell the stench comming from my pants.

*I wait for Him to finish*

Me: "But didn't you say in your book not to murder?"

God: "Silence, do my bidding...kill your neighbor or suffer an eternity in hell"

Me: ..."Ahh, sorry...but no. I've never been a mercenary and I don't intend on becoming one now, whatever the price you put on it. Wave your magic finger and do it yourself".

(Yeah, I may believe this Being exists now. But will I not worship a Being that would have lesser beings do His bidding in such a way. That is no God for me.
And if He strikes me down because of it...I awear I'll find a way to get Him back.

Note: this is just a joke, people. I think the OP is a rediculous question.

Green Man · Apr 22, 2005

Why do people insist on posing rhetorical questions?Nothing better to do?

Ram · Apr 22, 2005

Green Man said:
Why do people insist on posing rhetorical questions?Nothing better to do?

The others options are atheist bashing and Islam bashings( the usual theme of threads here). Which do you want next?

Abbadon · Apr 22, 2005

Ram said:
The others options are atheist bashing and Islam bashings( the usual theme of threads here). Which do you want next?

Or actually asking questions about fellow religions.

Green Man · Apr 22, 2005

Ram said:
The others options are atheist bashing and Islam bashings( the usual theme of threads here). Which do you want next?

Don't really matter which way you go on this one cause they both wind up burning in hell forever and a day.

Ram · Apr 22, 2005

MachineGod said:
Note: this is just a joke, people. I think the OP is a rediculous question.

The OP addresses the basic question: When in crisis, whether to choose faith or moral justice. The question of the OP is simulating such a crisis. Cant you understand this much?

My aim was to actually point out that since scripture is the route to god, you must substitute god in the question with scripture. So I am addressing a fundamental question thru this thread:

If your scripture asks or allows a immoral thing, would you do it? Like we have seen here before Child Beating for not praying etc.

Try to read into the inner meaning of rhetorics.

MachineGod · Apr 22, 2005

Ram said:
The OP addresses the basic question: When in crisis, whether to choose faith or moral justice. The question of the OP is simulating such a crisis. Cant you understand this much?

My aim was to actually point out that since scripture is the route to god, you must substitute god in the question with scripture. So I am addressing a fundamental question thru this thread:

If your scripture asks or allows a immoral thing, would you do it? Like we have seen here before Child Beating for not praying etc.

Try to read into the inner meaning of rhetorics.

Sorry, I didn't mean it as a throw at you. It answer seemed to obvious...but that's just my opinion. And I felt like trying to be funny, lol. *shrugs*

Hydra009 · Apr 22, 2005

Green Man said:
Why do people insist on posing rhetorical questions?Nothing better to do?

Well, if you were trapped in a chat room and had 24 hours to live...

Ram said:
If anyone thinks death sentence is barbaric, life without parole is equally barbaric. Death releives earthly misery in a wink, so your intention is to torture the criminal for life? How is that compatible with morality?

I strongly disagree. The individual has proven himself to be a mortal danger to society - mass murder, etc. So, the individual is incarcerated and isolated from society - permanently, if necessary. That's justice. The death sentence is nothing more than revenge and hypocrisy - killing to show that killing is wrong. Sorry, Ram, I'm with Rae and others on this one.

Ram said:
It depends on what you call god. How can you decide if something is immoral when ordered so by god? God is above law and society.

Maybe, but human beings aren't. No human being should kill another in the name of God. EVER. We have far too much of that in our history as it is. If God wants Person X dead, then he has the power to do so without resorting to humans.

Plus, don't you think it would be kind of odd that God would go against his own laws? Surely, we can all agree that God does not approve of murder. How then, could anyone conceive of God giving the order to murder?

22.8% faith, and 77.2% moral justice.

That is a huge odd stacked against faith.

Actually, that's a good thing. It's good that more people look into their own conscience and the laws of their god(s) rather than simply believe voices in one's head and carry out murder.

sanaa · Apr 22, 2005

Hydra009 said:
I strongly disagree. The individual has proven himself to be a mortal danger to society - mass murder, etc. So, the individual is incarcerated and isolated from society - permanently, if necessary. That's justice.

how can u permanently isolate someone , he ll still be in contact with a few humans to recieve food and for any other prison related work

The death sentence is nothing more than revenge and hypocrisy - killing to show that killing is wrong. Sorry, Ram, I'm with Rae and others on this one.

what is wrong with the teaching " u reap what u sow" , if u have robbed another persons right to life how can u morally claim ur own right

What would you do?

What would you do if god asks this?

Obey implicitly, no questions asked.

Tell god it is not correct and refuse.

Ask god for the reason and neverthless carry out the task

Ask god for the reason and decide based on the reason given.

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