What Would YOU Do If . . .?

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

roflcopter101 said:
Psychiatrists=drug giving.
Psychologists=talking.
Besides, I don't think it's particularly right for someone to hire a psychologist just to have a supporting viewpoint. Psychologists are for counseling and objective advice.

It would not be for a supporting viewpoint. It would be to figure out why they feel the need to be gay and what they can do about it.

OphidiaPhile · Dec 30, 2008

JustMeSee said:
Well, I don't know for sure, but they don't act gay.

And what exactly is acting gay, when I was in college a couple of the biggest, most masculine and toughest guys on the football team just happened to be gay.

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

OphidiaPhile said:
And what exactly is acting gay, when I was in college a couple of the biggest, most masculine and toughest guys on the football team just happened to be gay.

Acting gay (for a dude): flirting with guys, checking guys out, talking about hot guys, being physical with a guy, sex with a guy, etc.

roflcopter101 · Dec 30, 2008

I'm not rejecting them. They are free to come back anytime, but their sinful lifestyle is not.

Oh, so let's say that I was born with a horrible facial disfigurement.
So you wouldn't reject me, but you'd kick me out until I stop scaring people with my scrambled-eggs face?

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

roflcopter101 said:
Oh, so let's say that I was born with a horrible facial disfigurement.
So you wouldn't reject me, but you'd kick me out until I stop scaring people with my scrambled-eggs face?

A horrible facial disfigurement is not a sin, so no I would not reject you.

Beanieboy · Dec 30, 2008

For what it matters, I came out when I was 26. I explained that it was something that I had been trying to understand myself (since in the 80s, people were still claiming that it was simply a choice, pre-73, it was considered a mental illness, etc.) for the past 12 or 13 years. My mom said that didn't approve of my "lifestyle", nor wanted to be around me or any boyfriend "or whatever I called it." I told her that it would be the same as telling my brothers or sisters that you loved them, but they were never allowed to bring their spouses home - so, where did that leave us?

From there, we only talked on the phone about twice a year. She often didn't call on my birthday. They have finally come around last year, and finally met my partner.

I'm 45. And my dad died a month later.

That is what you want?

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

Beanieboy said:
That is what you want?

No, I'd want the kid to look inside and find out what it was that makes him want to lead a sinful lifestyle and not recognize it as a sin and seek forgiveness.

Wyzaard · Dec 30, 2008

angellica said:
Right, I will not be subjected to seeing them do anything gay, sexually or otherwise.

Being merely offended is not being subjected to anything... unlike what you are subjecting them to... homelessness.

I'm not rejecting them. They are free to come back anytime, but their sinful lifestyle is not.

Being gay is not a lifestyle. (Repeat this brute fact over and over to yourself until you become sane, please)

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

Wyzaard said:
Being merely offended is not being subjected to anything... unlike what you are subjecting them to... homelessness.

Their sin is subjecting them to homelessness.

Being gay is not a lifestyle. (Repeat this brute fact over and over to yourself until you become sane, please)

Feel free to disagree with me on that, then.

Wyzaard · Dec 30, 2008

angellica said:
No, I'd want the kid to look inside and find out what it was that makes him want to lead a sinful lifestyle and not recognize it as a sin and seek forgiveness.

The only people who would need to ask for forgiveness would be those who reject their children so stupidly.

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

Wyzaard said:
The only people who would need to ask for forgiveness would be those who reject their children so stupidly.

I would reject the sin, not the sinner. If they insisted on living a sinful lifestyle, they would have to go elsewhere to do so.

Beanieboy · Dec 30, 2008

angellica said:
No, I'd want the kid to look inside and find out what it was that makes him want to lead a sinful lifestyle and not recognize it as a sin and seek forgiveness.

Well, it doesn't change.
It wasn't what my parents wanted either.
So, basically, I fell out of their life for about 20 years, mostly because of the conditional love that they offered.

I had a partner of 7 years. Every time she called, she would ask, "Who was that? Who is Christopher??" When I would remind her, she quickly changed the subject. This went on for 7 years.

They have never come to see me. Not once. Not even when I was living alone for many years.

Not once.

TheBear · Dec 30, 2008

Angellica, for someone who doesn't have kids and really doesn't know how you would handle the OP scenario if it did become a reality in your life, you really are vested in this topic.

(just an observation)

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

Beanieboy said:
Well, it doesn't change.
It wasn't what my parents wanted either.
So, basically, I feel out of their life for about 20 years, mostly because of the conditional love that they offered.

They have never come to see me. Not once. Not even when I was living alone for many years.

You can't blame them when you refuse to give up a sinful lifestyle that they do not want to condone. It's like if your kid was a drug addict - you wouldn't want to see them or be around them and see what they are doing to themselves.

geekgirlkelli · Dec 30, 2008

Angellica, I realize that since you're not even a parent at this point that this probably doesn't mean much to you, but think about this anyway.

Let's say your teenager who kept their sexuality repressed for years -- well past the teenage years -- because of Mom & Dad's strict rules and harsh philosophy condemning homosexuality; that teenager grows up, gets married and starts a family, trying hard to live up to Mom & Dad's definition of "normal." At some point this teenager, now a parent with children, realizes that they can no longer live a lie and come out.

Now what are you going to do? Are you going to tell your child never to bring your grandkids around because Mom (or Dad) is gay? Will you punish them for something they didn't even do? How about your other (straight) kids never allowing your now out-of-the-closet gay kid's children to be around their cousins?

This thing is a bit bigger than your feeling icky about someone elses' sexuality. I hope you either NEVER have children or somehow come to your senses if you do. That scenario I outlined? That's my family. My kids, the ones who get straight A's in school and for whom I am constantly getting notes home about how respectful and pleasant they are to have in class -- those kids are left wondering why Grandpa doesn't want them around and why they aren't allowed to see cousin Claudie anymore. Actually, they really don't wonder. They know why. I told them so they don't think it's their fault.

Do you really want to be that kind of parent?

angellica · Dec 30, 2008

geekgirlkelli said:
Angellica, I realize that since you're not even a parent at this point that this probably doesn't mean much to you, but think about this anyway.

Let's say your teenager who kept their sexuality repressed for years -- well past the teenage years -- because of Mom & Dad's strict rules and harsh philosophy condemning homosexuality; that teenager grows up, gets married and starts a family, trying hard to live up to Mom & Dad's definition of "normal." At some point this teenager, now a parent with children, realizes that they can no longer live a lie and come out.

Now what are you going to do? Are you going to tell your child never to bring your grandkids around because Mom (or Dad) is gay? Will you punish them for something they didn't even do? How about your other (straight) kids never allowing your now out-of-the-closet gay kid's children to be around their cousins?

This thing is a bit bigger than your feeling icky about someone elses' sexuality. I hope you either NEVER have children or somehow come to your senses if you do. That scenario I outlined? That's my family. My kids, the ones who get straight A's in school and for whom I am constantly getting notes home about how respectful and pleasant they are to have in class -- those kids are left wondering why Grandpa doesn't want them around and why they aren't allowed to see cousin Claudie anymore.

Do you really want to be that kind of parent?

Their kids could still come over, because they have nothing to do with their mom/dad being gay. Also, one shouldn't get married if you don't want to, or just to be "normal." That's the wrong reason to go into it, and it's even more wrong (?) to bring kids into that situation.

tcampen · Dec 30, 2008

angellica said:
You can't blame them when you refuse to give up a sinful lifestyle that they do not want to condone. It's like if your kid was a drug addict - you wouldn't want to see them or be around them and see what they are doing to themselves.

One can disagree with whether a gay or lesbian person should act on their innate feelings without equating being gay to being a drug addict - which is inherently destructive, as opposed to homosexuality which is only inherently destructive according to one's personal theology.

So which is more sinful, the parent who is finally honest with herself, or the grandparent who is hateful of that honesty?

Archer93 · Dec 30, 2008

angellica said:
There is a difference, as I said before, in committing a sin and living a sinful lifestyle.

You might want to sort out the beam in your eye before you get overly concerned about the mote in others'.
You are condeming as sinful something about which Jesus did not speak. There is nothing- repeat nothing, in either the Old or the New Testament, which suggests that a committed, monogamous same-sex relationship is sinful. There are passages which forbid the raping of men, which forbid involvement in ecstatic religious rites and which talk about the consequences of such being that people end up going against their natures.
There is also a highly ambiguous word which Paul appears to have coined which has been translated in various ways to reflect the sexual bugbear of the time.
Anything in favour of same-sex relationships? Well, that rather depends on what you make of the stories of Ruth and Naomi and David and Jonathan. But that doesn't matter. There's nothing to forbid loving same-sex relationships, and to claim otherwise is to claim to know the mind of God.
Which is pride at its very worst.

And one thing is not like the other- being gay is not on a par with being a drug addict. Drugs have clearly identifiable adverse affects on one. The only danger inherant in being gay is the reaction of other people.

geekgirlkelli · Dec 30, 2008

angellica said:
Their kids could still come over, because they have nothing to do with their mom/dad being gay. Also, one shouldn't get married if you don't want to, or just to be "normal." That's the wrong reason to go into it, and it's even more wrong (?) to bring kids into that situation.

Wow, you really don't get it. First of all, you think that I'm going to allow my kids to go over to Grandpa's house so he can load their minds with all sorts of anti-gay BS? I won't do that for the same reason some Christian parents won't put their kids in public school.

Second, and more importantly, did you read what I wrote? You repressed your kid so much with your anti-gay dogma you convinced them that anything but traditional marriage and family is abnormal, thereby delaying the inevitable and causing them to do anything in an attempt to fiil your definition of normal -- including marrying straight and starting a family. And when that doesn't work, they realize what a mistake they made. It's a common theme in the gay population.

Polycarp_fan · Dec 30, 2008

TheBear said:
Angellica, for someone who doesn't have kids and really doesn't know how you would handle the OP scenario if it did become a reality in your life, you really are vested in this topic.

(just an observation)

Angellica, these guys always try to bluff you away with this type of accusation.

I usually get the self-loathing gay guy routine, or of course, the "why are you obsessed with gay stuff" deal.

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