What would option 3 look like

[stranger]

One of the things I noticed was that now people intentionally post to the wrong fora to draw an unsuspecting group into a debate fora.

People have DIFFERENCES, God does NOT .... we need to talk about them despite the pain of many people having to admit they are wrong....

If one REFUSES to talk and huddles in a corner [christian enclave, denomination, sect] then it is left to God to sort out who is wrong and it comes down to God's WRATH in the end [according to the prophets and the revelation of Jesus]

So surely it is better to talk now ... some people see that there is a wall that needs to be broken down between folks before people LEARN to LOVE each other DESPITE the pain of getting there ... cos' the deferred pain of not doing so is far worse , a million times worse [read about it in scripture...

God is love and His law for US is love... one cannot love all men by huddling away in a corner and shutting the door...

Jesus command too was to go AMONGST the masses , not to hjde away with a few friends...

Xenophobia is NOT love for all men... see it ... make love real ... ditch the xenophobia and find the courage to love the unloving... then it will catch on ...

 

[stranger]

actually the site has 200,000 registered accounts - or nearly that many. EVEN SO - there are roughly what? 2 or 3 thousand regular active members - 1000 would be either half or a third of that.

That is nonsense , there can be as many as 5000 online at any one time , very active indeed , maybe not all members , but you make a big mistake to discount non-members , they are just as capable of prayer as anyone and they can read even if they have the sense not to shoot their mouth off as sinners ... cos' they realise perhaps that they don't know yet from God and that almost everything here is just hot air, not even grounded in scripture soundly... they may even notice how few people care to be reproved to scripture and prefer to study the words of God alone with Him... do not be so fast to judge and discount the silent many who use this site , rather seek to understand why and learn...

Humdreds of thousands use this site and this poll is worse than useless at representing their views ... but the most popular option amongst those who have spoken about it was not even in the short list of two... most people it emerges want the site name unchanged, but also want outreach as it is [or even better serving God !]

only a tiny minority are xenophobes, sadly they are the noisiest headache for Erwin and pushed him into this folly... fortuantely people woke up in time and showed this is not what they want, and said so, very man people indeed refused to vote because the poll is a scam, deeply faulted ...

 

[GenemZ]

[/size]


I KNOW what it's like to believe with all my heart in the existence of God.

You are going to find the next statement impossible to believe.

I no longer simply believe Jesus Christ is in Heaven. I now KNOW.

It all begins with believing in there might be a God. If our hearts remains right before God? Eventually we will find ourselves KNOWING what we first only believed in.

Simply believing there is a God? That does not make one a Christian.

James 2:19 (New International Version)
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."
​

​

Its finding oneself being able to believe in Jesus Christ, is what reveals you have crossed over the line.

Matthew 11:27 (New International Version)
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
​

​

So, I can easily identify with where Christians are.

You can not. For you would know Jesus Christ died for your sins, and believe it.

Just having a generic belief in there being a God is what those who nailed Jesus to Cross. Such a belief, in there being a God, only indicates that God was able to draw you for a time, but could not continue onto salvation.

John 6:43-45 (New International Version)
"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered.

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me."
​

Matter of fact, I could have been a pretty good apologist for the Christian cause if I had been pushed into it, but never was.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Or, had you simply memorized all the catch phrases which you could repeat?

But to say you once knew there is no God? But now you do not? That to me, is oxymoronic logic.

I did not say that.

Go back and read what I did say.

I said, "doubted" the existence of God.

If you knew God was not real? That means he is not real.

I did not say that.

Here are the very words you quoted from me.

I KNOW what its like to doubt the existence of God. So, I can easily identify with where Atheists are. Matter of fact, I could have been a pretty good apologist for the Atheist cause if I had been pushed into it, but never was.

I did not say I knew God did not exist.

But to say you once knew God? But now you do not? That to me, is oxymoronic logic.

I see you liked my line of logic, and tried to reverse it on me.

But, it still stands. If you call yourself an Atheist? How could you once know God is real?

Kids believe in Santa Claus. It all depends if your belief came from tapping into that area of human ability to fantasize... OR? To believe by Grace! By God empowering your soul to believe. Grace!

You can not identify with the born again Christian. You can only identify (at best) with religious people who claim to be Christians.

Religious people are the kind of person who would follow what ever religion they were born into. Christianity when its real, pulls men out of that kind of religion.

If you knew God was real? That means he is real. Now? He threw a button and stopped being real? That would be the only way you could have known God is real, but no longer do.

I see you liked my line of logic. I am flattered. But, you terribly misapplied it.

But, even by your misapplication? You admit you saw how you would have had to write my words to make it substantiated.

Those were not my words. The very words you quoted of mine? Say nothing like you claimed it does.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

That is nonsense , there can be as many as 5000 online at any one time , very active indeed , maybe not all members , but you make a big mistake to discount non-members....

A general rule of thumb is that 2/3 to 3/4 of all "Guests" are just spiders. It doesn't always apply, of course, but very often it does.

 

[pete56]

A general rule of thumb is that 2/3 to 3/4 of all "Guests" are just spiders. It doesn't always apply, of course, but very often it does.

Does it really matter?

The fact is that the vote we have is not a vote of all the members and is far from representative, IMO!

 

[stranger]

It seems to me that people can and do change their beliefs , they don't do it too often cos' its apinful and costs a lot ...

But the fact that beliefs change shows that you canot label someone 'atheist', 'christian' , unbeliever;, etc because that can change tomorrow, but the person is the same person...

It is a mistake then that has been turned into a xenophobia by some on this site who want to draw lines around people...

God on the other hand, simply says that He has the power to CHANGE BELIEF and thus to change the will of folks , an atheist thus can come to belief by act of God ... where then do those who sought to exclude that person from their midst because he asked questions of their faith which they could not or would not answer?

What will God do with these sinners who rejected this one whom nowGod makes a saint... who was right and who was wrong....?

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save...

Some people want to judge others long before judgment day, but Jesus warned about that ,saying that their false jus=dgments would reflect back on thm, their eagerness to prejudge is sin enough to keep them from being saints...

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Who then can judge now who will believe and who will not believe at judgment day... surely tyou can see it is absurd to judge now ?

 

[pete56]

Stranger what you say is true, about changing beliefs, but that point does not change the fact that We are a Christian Forum that accepts non Christians in to fellowship here.

The Forum is still Christian until there is a change of ethos by Erwin. The active members as far as I can tell are still largely and predominantly Christian, so why should we change the name of CF, and surely the Mission statement of Uniting ALL Christians is still a good and honourable God given purpose for this site.

 

[stranger]

Stranger what you say is true, about changing beliefs, but that point does not change the fact that We are a Christian Forum that accepts non Christians in to fellowship here.

The Forum is still Christian until there is a change of ethos by Erwin. The active members as far as I can tell are still largely and predominantly Christian, so why should we change the name of CF, and surely the Mission statement of Uniting ALL Christians is still a good and honourable God given purpose for this site.

My friend, I see no reasion whatever to change the name , and never suggested that we should ... It is simply that someone bullied Erwin into condering if this was a christian site and Erwin misunderstood and copied this poll from its originator [who withdrew his poll, having seen the mistakle] ... it really is a comedy of errors which reflects only that Erwin is understandably overwhelmed with running this site with its diversity of pressures...

As for 'uniting all christians' , it sounds good until you realise that Jesus prophesied that all christian sinners would unite behind the fasle christ before he returned...

But the site has NOT been uniting people, it has progressively gone in for apartheid, segregating groups of christianns and making sure that the cannot discuss their differeneces, but rather retreat into enclaves where they each tell each other they are right... but of course there are many enclaves and at most one could be right [i fcat none agree with ALL the scripture of God , so NONE are right, allare under Satan then, already, easy pickings when the antichrist calls for unity ...]

For myself, I discern that God is teh God of love, and Jesus commanded love of all men and love of God of His followers.... I see a little love occasionally here, but not the overwhelmng depth of love from all chrsitians that one should expect to see.... so it all went very peqr-shaped, and really why would one ask unloving sinners what a christian site should look like, they do not know how to love, so how would they know, let alone vote for something that they cannot DO...

The final irony of it all though, is that no-one gets redeemed [saved] until love is perfected by them i tial, yet this vote is all about avoiding trial and xenophobically shutting oneself away from contact with people who ask embarassing questions like " Why aren't all christians all-loving to all men?" and "Why do christians not want to discuss their faith and convince me they aere right , just because I do not yet believe ?"...

 

[pete56]

Well I cannot fault your comments Stranger!

I hope Erwin reads them.

I would like to point out that at all times through the ages there has always been a faithful remnant of believers that did not turn away from God and His loving ways.

And this site does have a number of believers that still try to exemplify the love of Christ for all men in all places.

PP

 

[stranger]

Well I cannot fault your comments Stranger!

I hope Erwin reads them.

I would like to point out that at all times through the ages there has always been a faithful remnant of believers that did not turn away from God and His loving ways.

And this site does have a number of believers that still try to exemplify the love of Christ for all men in all places.

Add your voice then, write a PM to Erwin , saying what you really want here ... now is the time for it , not a time to be silent and let the moment slither and the site with it ... you have the means o say what you want still, use it whilst you have that freedom to speak, or we may lose it ... the site has lost sight of love, and God is love ,,, there really is no use for it without love except as the voice of the antchrist... the antichrist will have his day, briefly, but those who overcome are those who stand against him, not those who go along with the masses [one good reason for NOT using democracy here, but the word of God about love instead...]


Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[stranger]

A general rule of thumb is that 2/3 to 3/4 of all "Guests" are just spiders. It doesn't always apply, of course, but very often it does.

God has a clever way of catching spiders too, in their own web of deceit called 'this world' ... that is why the righteous suffer with the wicked now, it is perfectio of love for the saints, but God's allowing the consequences of evil to be seen for the many sinners of this world ... Solomon's wisdom and prophecy :-

Ecclesiastes 9:12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

It is not clear to me how anyone could devise such a 'rule of thumb', but God has a use in all men, in the good and the evil... but it is all for good in the end ...

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[J4Jesus]

Stranger what you say is true, about changing beliefs, but that point does not change the fact that We are a Christian Forum that accepts non Christians in to fellowship here.

The Forum is still Christian until there is a change of ethos by Erwin. The active members as far as I can tell are still largely and predominantly Christian, so why should we change the name of CF, and surely the Mission statement of Uniting ALL Christians is still a good and honourable God given purpose for this site.

A forum is Christian if it has rules based on God's Word and they are upheld. If not then it ceases to be one. Without that it is not honoring God no matter how many here say they are Christian or what they may want to do.

 

[J4Jesus]

actually the site has 200,000 registered accounts - or nearly that many. EVEN SO - there are roughly what? 2 or 3 thousand regular active members - 1000 would be either half or a third of that.

But there are not near that many.Its not a true reflection. That only shows how many have registered at one time. Some have not been here for years and others banned . You don't close accounts here you just dont use them anymore.

 

[J4Jesus]

Um again where is outreach being excluded?

Option 2 includes outreach i dont know why people think it doesnt

.

 

[J4Jesus]

BIG FAT HUGE NO on mods making the rules.

BIG FAT HUGE AMEN!

 

[Inan3]

[/SIZE]


I KNOW what it's like to believe with all my heart in the existence of God. So, I can easily identify with where Christians are. Matter of fact, I could have been a pretty good apologist for the Christian cause if I had been pushed into it, but never was.

But to say you once knew there is no God? But now you do not? That to me, is oxymoronic logic.

If you knew God was not real? That means he is not real. Now? He sprang into existence and started being real? That would be the only way you could have known God is not real, but no longer do.

This game is rapidly decreasing in its entertainment value, but I'm just trying to demonstrate a point about how you come across.



A flame is a flame, whether the motivation is plain anger or "righteous zeal". I suspect most atheists can tell the difference between "that opinion is wrong and here's the scripture to prove it" and "you're an evil baby-eating liberal and you're going straight to hell".



Oh, we're making slippery slope argumnets now. I'll call the secret Atheist Cabal and have them unplug your computer, we can't have you revealing our plans.

I think that what genez is trying to say is that Christians have been where non-believers are but non-believers have not been where Christians are.

And just to clarify a point that you made. It is not enough to believe IN the existence of God only, for the Bible says "the devils believe and tremble" and their belief will get them no where.

What is necessary to pass from death to life, from the natural to the spiritual, from darkness to light is that one MUST believe that God is AND that He is a Rewarder of those that diligently seek HIM. God requires that we believe HIM not just that He exists but that what He has says is TRUE. That He DID send Jesus Christ to redeem us (buy us back) from the clutches of death and Hell. He wants us to believe that He loves us enough to accept us on the merits of our belief in Jesus Christ as our Saviour and nothing more. We have no credibilty in our own works. We have no credibility outside of Jesus the Christ.

Jesus taught, "You MUST be born again to "see" (perceive, understand) the Kingdom of God. It cannot be understood by our finite minds.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God.

1Cr 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world BY WISDOM KNEW NOT GOD, it PLEASED God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

That's it simply...GOD has CHOSEN to save those that believe in His provision of the sacrifice paid by Jesus Christ. He paid for our sin. His death and resurrection satisfied the law and heart of God and it is by accepting that sacrifice as the propitiation of our sins that pleases God and in turn He accepts us as if we had never sinned. That's the deal. That's the New Covenant, the New Testament which is in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Once that is acted upon in a believers life, he is received of God as a son.

hn 1:12 But as many as received Him, to THEM gave He POWER to become the sons of God, [even] to them that BELIEVE on His name:

A literal and miraculous occurance then happens and the person is born of God.

John 1:13 Which were born, NOT of blood, NOR of the will of the flesh, NOR of the will of man, BUT of God.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever BELIEVETH THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of Him.

It is based upon the Word of God. Hence the need to preach Jesus to all men.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, NOT of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the POWER of God.

The power of God creating us anew. Bringing us back from a separation from God, due to sin, unto sonship in the spirit and fellowship with Him.

We become ALIVE unto God. Not of our ability but by the miraculous intervention of God the Holy Spirit. Just as the virgin Mary conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit we are conceived or born again by the same Spirit.

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [OF] the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST be born again.

To know God or to understand God one must be born again in the spirit.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 GOD IS A SPIRIT : and they that worship him MUST worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

We need the connection of the born again spirit man to hook up to God. Without that none of us can KNOW Him and all He has for us.

1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.
1Cr 2:10 BUT GOD hath revealed [them] unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? EVEN SO THE THINGS OF GOD KNOWETH NO MAN, BUT THE SPIRIT OF GOD.


Herein lies the difference between the believer and the unbeliever. Not that we are better but we HAVE believed and entered into eternal Life.

 

[stranger]

He accepts us as if we had never sinned. That's the deal. That's the New Covenant,

It would help if you raed who the new covenant is with -Heb 8:8 - then you wouldn't keep repeating what you heard from sinners but what Paul says [also it is in Jer 31:31-34... so read it and understand the truth, not the propaganda of the churches]

 

[stranger]

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
Option 2 includes outreach i dont know why people think it doesn't

Option 2 calls for reducing outreach... that is simply got nothing to do with the name of the site [the other thing in the poll] and is against the the great commiission commanded by Jesus which is the primary command from Jesus , part of love to all men .... the fact thst some people want outreeach stopped because of their xenophobia and insecurity of faith and lack of commitment to the great commission only leaves it suspicious whether reduction of outreach would in fact be complete to zero .... again the poll is flawed because it could mean some or all outreach lost, but most people made it clear in discussio that they want outreach improved, not curtailed or lost, and most people also want the name to stay, no matter that they aren't saints....

 

[Angel4Truth]

It doesnt call for reducing it , it leaves the emphasis on christians uniting.

 

[Lanakila]

For those that think non-Christians have never been where they are I'd like to introduce myself and some of my fellow deconverts. Yes many of us have been where you are. I personally didn't mind the exclusion of the CO forums, but I didn't post there much even as a believer. But I am not the only atheist or even deconvert here, and we are not all the same.

Those of us that like to debate and challenge believers about doctrine and apologetics topics, will and are still mostly hanging out in GA and the other formerly open forums. The only posts I have made since the forums open up to me in the formerly CO forums area were just discussion about this very topic.