What would option 3 look like

[stranger]

Let moderators for each individual forum make the rules.

Some moderators are corrupted by their given powers already , to impose their beliefs, even bend or break the rules to shut the mouths of those with whom they disagree ... and appealing against them is rarely upheld because the site structure needs more moderators, however corrupt, not fewer...

The answer is God's option, option 7, not offered in the poll..

God simply says that all people will get along fine when everyone loves each other [and Him] ... it is a great way to run a site , the best ... it is a great way to run a world, the best...

So vote for option 7 , when I can finally persuade Erwin that GGod's law of love is a better way to run a site than his way, or his most recent starnge idea of 'democracy' [which becomes the rule of glove puppeteers in this context]

God is actually right, love really is the only way that works... the site really doesn't neded to try 'democracy' too with all its corruption of folks before finally admitting that God had the best solution all along...

peace then, but only when men stop thinking they know better than God ...

 

[dignitized]

BIG FAT HUGE NO on mods making the rules.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

I think option 3 should be something in between 1 and 2. Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but here is my proposal:
Get rid of the wiki. It's too confusing and could change at any time. Let moderators for each individual forum make the rules.

Absolutely NOT.

A. That is to much work and burden on them. They are already overworked as it is.

B. It would lead to wide variances in the rules. You'd have highly conservative rule in some forums and highly liberal in others and in the congregational forum that is just not fair because not every single person is conservative, liberal, or moderate.

C. Some mods (I've mainly noticed this with some 'Supermods') I still think do not have some members best interest and may have their own agenda. I did not spend money to support this site to have people play agendas here.

The wiki can work--the way in which it is done can be tweaked, (like have a wiki open for awhile--but then close it once a consensus of the members have agreed--the only way to amend the rules at that point would be to open a discussion about it--so not a 'true' wiki but a modifided idea of one) but its not confusing. People just need to give it a chance to work instead of jumping and attacking something when its first starting and of course still has some bugs to work out. I don't think highly of that kind of mentality.

 

[brachah]

there is no option3.

the poll is very clear, why not follow it?

most christians left cf already. u have the poll. n now why option 3? the spirit of G-d can see u thru.

070707 is 911 of cf.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

BIG FAT HUGE NO on mods making the rules.

Why do I get the feeling you don't like that idea?

 

[MarcusHill]

BIG FAT HUGE NO on mods making the rules.

Agreed.

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

BIG FAT HUGE NO on mods making the rules.

Double agreed.

 

[stranger]

there is no option3.

the poll is very clear, why not follow it?

most christians left cf already. u have the poll. n now why option 3? the spirit of G-d can see u thru.

070707 is 911 of cf.

The poll is far from clear, far from fairly conducted , and far from setting out all possible options...

The site is completely divided by the poll , the differenec between 45% and 55% is not statistically significant and is no basis for a decision that affects hundreds of thousands [based on a vote of less than a thousand cos' mos people don't even know about what's gong on here, they weren't informed of the vote!!]

FFrom the discussion of the poll it is claer however that the option most people want is for the site name not to change AND for outreach to continue unabsted .... bizarrely that option is not mentioned in the poll... so the poll is useless except that it showed how christians are prepared to cheat in polls and even Erwin gets it completely wrong sometimes ... write a PM to him and tell him what is wrong with his faulted poll ...

 

[Digit]

Good question.

One possible solution that has been proposed already is to run 2 sites, one that is open, another that is Christians-only, based on the same membership data.

It's entirely possible. The previous version of CF is very similar, with 2 sections, one open and one close. The aim of the new system was to establish something like that but with members agreeing to do it themselves, but it hasn't worked out over the past month.

The ultimate aim would be to keep the good things of the recent changes such as moderator transparency, and see if we can formalise the wiki usage a bit more in a way that is acceptable (the wiki collaborative process is still the best process to get consensus for rules and guidelines).

There is no question that CF has 2 large groups of membership together, and to be honest, that is fantastic, because not many sites on the Internet are able to bring these 2 groups of people together into a place for discussion.

It is possible that Option 1 and Option 2 can be combined together into a middle ground of Option 3 since this is what the poll is really showing us (and I had hoped that the current CF setup would have been the Option 3, since it has elements of both, but apparently not). So the question is, if that's the answer (and I'm not saying it is at this stage), what would Option 3 look like?

It's a question that's does not have an easy answer.

...

You are begining to annoy me now. I have to be honest and I'm sorry that I am annoyed, but I just want this over with. Make a decision please. I'm not sure how to say this simply so that everyone gets it, but the site needs leadership. Just like anything does. Just like we do, we have God, He leads us. The president leads the country, mayors lead the cities, captains lead teams, pastors lead churches, managers lead companies, teachers lead classes.

Leadership.

Do you think everyone who is lead likes everything that happens all the time? No, of course not, if that was the case there would be no need for re-elections and rules and so on. As much as a warm-fuzzy Utopia is a wonderful thing to aspire to, it is highly unlikely to happen in real life (especially if history is anything to go by) and it most certainly is very unlikely to happen on the internet where anonymity brings out our bad side continually. CF cannot be everyone's friend.

Christians want a forum to commune with other Christians, without interferance from non-Christians. It doesn't mean we never want to enjoy fellowship with them, or speak to them or interact with them. It just means we value our fellowship with other Christians. Non-Christians want to feel like they belong here, and have at least equal importance as Christians and equal rights. Similar forum access, non-Christian staff and so on.

Imagine two transparent circles, one blue, one yellow. Move them close together so that each partly overlaps the other. That's what the forum should look like. Blue and red represent the faith areas, and the green is the fellowship area where we can all meet up.

I'm not subscribed to this thread because all your tail-chasing makes me annoyed, so don't feel the need to respond.

Regards,
Digit

 

[DedicatedLittleFaith]

Make a decision please. I'm not sure how to say this simply so that everyone gets it, but the site needs leadership. Just like anything does. Just like we do, we have God, He leads us. The president leads the country, mayors lead the cities, captains lead teams, pastors lead churches, managers lead companies, teachers lead classes.

Well said!

There is a reason that, in every country, the common folk DO NOT get to input all their opinions when Governments vote laws. That reason is SIMPLE COMMON SENSE.

Erwin, I beg you, this has been going on for almost a month now. It is a disaster! And I am not going to say that all of the reformation is bad. But this idea of members deciding the rules,,, you have to see that this is NOT working. Please, Take back the reigns.

Leadership.

Do you think everyone who is lead likes everything that happens all the time? No, of course not, if that was the case there would be no need for re-elections and rules and so on. As much as a warm-fuzzy Utopia is a wonderful thing to aspire to, it is highly unlikely to happen in real life (especially if history is anything to go by) and it most certainly is very unlikely to happen on the internet where anonymity brings out our bad side continually. CF cannot be everyone's friend.

Christians want a forum to commune with other Christians, without interferance from non-Christians. It doesn't mean we never want to enjoy fellowship with them, or speak to them or interact with them. It just means we value our fellowship with other Christians. Non-Christians want to feel like they belong here, and have at least equal importance as Christians and equal rights. Similar forum access, non-Christian staff and so on.

Imagine two transparent circles, one blue, one yellow. Move them close together so that each partly overlaps the other. That's what the forum should look like. Blue and red represent the faith areas, and the green is the fellowship area where we can all meet up.

I'm not subscribed to this thread because all your tail-chasing makes me annoyed, so don't feel the need to respond.

Regards,
Digit

This is the most sensible post I have read all day. It is EXACTLY what everyone around is working for: a workable solution in which everyone is a winner:

1- Christian only section allows Christian to fellowship amoung each other.

2- Non Christian sections allow for them to fellowship amoung each other and they would have their own moderators to work their forums (equal rights have been attained)

3- A fellowship area in which Christians and Non Christians can fellowship and talk to each other; which is what I believe the non Chrisitans want,,,, otherwise they would not come on what is called a Christian Website.

And before anybody tears my head off for calling Christian Forums a Christian website, READ THE NAME PEOPLE! It is called Christian Forums.

And Erwin, and believe me when I say that I am talking to you now with the utmost respect (although I am very annoyed with the whole situation myself, I admit), if you no longer want this site to be Christian, then by all means just do whatever changes you see fit and change it's name. I will never tear you down for it: I have ALWAYS viewed CF as your site, which it is, and as such I have always stated it was yours to do with it as you please.

 

[pete56]

The poll is far from clear, far from fairly conducted , and far from setting out all possible options...

The site is completely divided by the poll , the differenec between 45% and 55% is not statistically significant and is no basis for a decision that affects hundreds of thousands [based on a vote of less than a thousand cos' mos people don't even know about what's gong on here, they weren't informed of the vote!!]

FFrom the discussion of the poll it is claer however that the option most people want is for the site name not to change AND for outreach to continue unabsted .... bizarrely that option is not mentioned in the poll... so the poll is useless except that it showed how christians are prepared to cheat in polls and even Erwin gets it completely wrong sometimes ... write a PM to him and tell him what is wrong with his faulted poll ...

It is interesting that as the vote is going against your preference you are calling it statistically unrepresentative.

In a democracy like ours (the UK) far smaller variances are used to decide for weightier matters like invading another country for instance.

I think Id be more concerned about the numbers of members that have chosen to ignore the vote altogether!

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

070707 is 911 of cf.

Don't you think that's a bit much?

I think its awful that you would compare a change on a website to a horrible national tragedy for the U.S. How dare you! I also think you are blowing things way out of proportion.

And people are talking about a 3rd option because Erwin has made a thread for people to discuss one since the other 2 options have been so hotly debated and many people think those options are skewed..so people are "following it" so to speak.

 

[heymikey80]

This is the most sensible post I have read all day. It is EXACTLY what everyone around is working for: a workable solution in which everyone is a winner:

1- Christian only section allows Christian to fellowship amoung each other.

2- Non Christian sections allow for them to fellowship amoung each other and they would have their own moderators to work their forums (equal rights have been attained)

3- A fellowship area in which Christians and Non Christians can fellowship and talk to each other; which is what I believe the non Chrisitans want,,,, otherwise they would not come on what is called a Christian Website.

Yes. the big issue is where the boundary lines are -- but this and the posting it was responding to ... yes, there's a definite need for both immersion and separation.

It is the sole way of carrying out any ministry that isn't obsessed with one or the other and is actually obsessed with the Christian strategy.

One of the things I noticed was that now people intentionally post to the wrong fora to draw an unsuspecting group into a debate fora. Then the thread gets moved and voila! Instant cannon fodder. That's flatly wrong. For it to have happened within a scant month, I'm annoyed at the prospect of it happening much more often. In fact I think it's so wrong in the case of certain forums that I think the posting should be locked, obliterated, or otherwise destroyed without further addition.

 

[dignitized]

I could support a happy medium. Let individual subforums decide if they want them to be Christians only and go from there. I for one will continue to spend the majority of my time in the Open forums.

 

[stranger]

It is interesting that as the vote is going against your preference you are calling it statistically unrepresentative.

In a democracy like ours (the UK) far smaller variances are used to decide for weightier matters like invading another country for instance.

I think Id be more concerned about the numbers of members that have chosen to ignore the vote altogether!

I don't see that it matters now, but obviously both effects are relevant surely, not just one or the other...

As for it 'going against my preferenece' , my preference, like so many others have said theirs is, is to keep the name AND keep the outreach
Also ity matters not here that other decisions are made on statistically insignificant differences, it is wrong there and it would be wrong here ... but there is no chance that Erwin will listen to this poll , it would offend too many people on the site to do so , perhaps hundreds of thousands ... the poll is simply garbage because it never represented the most popular option and so needs scrapping... just a pity that it was not stopped sooner [as the original poll was withdrawn, but Erwin carried on and ignored that , simply copying the original poll to another place]

Worst of all is all the cheating which has gone on, proving that the site could never be run by 'poll democracy' anyway ... the numbvers mean nothing when so many vote multiple times under other names ['glove puppets'] ... people have even closed threads for spurous excuses when the argumant goes agaist their preferences... I mean, on a christian site , people want to cheat? Who are they cheating and do they not know God can see them and they have to make account to Him... it does not stop them though..

It is a terrible shame on Erwin that he has divided the site and caused so much upset for nothing , but it seems he is very tired of being harrangued by minorities , I do not blame him for getting desperate when people hassle him so much ... but this was far from even sensible , it is a shambles...

 

[sparklecat]

I could support a happy medium. Let individual subforums decide if they want them to be Christians only and go from there. I for one will continue to spend the majority of my time in the Open forums.

Aye, I'd have no problem with that personally.

 

[pete56]

I don't see that it matters now, but obviously both effects are relevant surely, not just one or the other...

As for it 'going against my preferenece' , my preference, like so many others have said theirs is, is to keep the name AND keep the outreach
Also ity matters not here that other decisions are made on statistically insignificant differences, it is wrong there and it would be wrong here ... but there is no chance that Erwin will listen to this poll , it would offend too many people on the site to do so , perhaps hundreds of thousands ... the poll is simply garbage because it never represented the most popular option and so needs scrapping... just a pity that it was not stopped sooner [as the original poll was withdrawn, but Erwin carried on and ignored that , simply copying the original poll to another place]

Worst of all is all the cheating which has gone on, proving that the site could never be run by 'poll democracy' anyway ... the numbvers mean nothing when so many vote multiple times under other names ['glove puppets'] ... people have even closed threads for spurous excuses when the argumant goes agaist their preferences... I mean, on a christian site , people want to cheat? Who are they cheating and do they not know God can see them and they have to make account to Him... it does not stop them though..

It is a terrible shame on Erwin that he has divided the site and caused so much upset for nothing , but it seems he is very tired of being harrangued by minorities , I do not blame him for getting desperate when people hassle him so much ... but this was far from even sensible , it is a shambles...

Well we agree on some things anyway!

This change as a result of a minority voice is certainly a shambles!

PP

 

[dignitized]

Well we agree on some things anyway!

This change as a result of a minority voice is certainly a shambles!

PP

have you seen the poll? HARDLY a minority

 

[pete56]

have you seen the poll? HARDLY a minority

Hmmm the poll has 974 votes at the moment.

How many members are there in CF? 6000 ? and as the vote is split 55/45 that means each side has less than 10% of the members voting for it.

Now I call that a minority!

 

[dignitized]

Hmmm the poll has 974 votes at the moment.

How many members are there in CF? 6000 ? and as the vote is split 55/45 that means each side has less than 10% of the members voting for it.

Now I call that a minority!

actually the site has 200,000 registered accounts - or nearly that many. EVEN SO - there are roughly what? 2 or 3 thousand regular active members - 1000 would be either half or a third of that.