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What would it take to trust Christ?
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
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Antoninus Verus
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- Dec 28, 2004
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I dont believe Christ was a divine being, even when I was Christian, I didnt believe in his divinity.Angel4Truth said:
But if Christ is really a divine figgure, he would have to come to me personally and tell me what he wanted.
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How can one trust a dead person?
It's like trusting a rock - possible but pointless.
Perhapse you should ask the question:-
'What would it take (for all of you are not believers) to trust an ancient belief based on a set of stories over a modern belief based on a set of principals'
It's like trusting a rock - possible but pointless.
Perhapse you should ask the question:-
'What would it take (for all of you are not believers) to trust an ancient belief based on a set of stories over a modern belief based on a set of principals'
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Electric Skeptic
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Some evidence that he is/was what his modern-day followers claim he is/was.Angel4Truth said:
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H
HRE
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Angel4Truth said:
I have no assurance of it, no.
I think he probably did exist, but I would need some evidence of that and the Bible's claims.
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Eudaimonist
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SteveR2021
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For me personally... have him speak to me...
I'd love to be comforted knowing there's more to this life then oblivion.
I'd love to be comforted knowing there's more to this life then oblivion.
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F
Fear
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I don't distrust Christ, I don't even know if the man existed, much less that he spoke the words and performed the miracles attributed to him.
I would also like some kind of indication that the story wasn't just a tall tale, it seems to have the fingerprints of man all over it. God is supposed to be the supreme architect of the universe, there are 100 billion galaxies and 70 sextillion stars, why would that God's great gift to humanity be a short lived manifestation of himself 2,000 years ago in one small section of the globe? Why the whole sacrifice thing? All sorts of cultures came up with the idea of sacrifice, the Jews were not unique in this regard, I don't understand why God would demand innocent blood to pay for the sins of the guilty, this is such an absurd system of justice.
Basically, I am in agreement with many of the moral teachings from the NT, but I just think that everything is so much bigger than the Christian God or the Christian story.
I would also like some kind of indication that the story wasn't just a tall tale, it seems to have the fingerprints of man all over it. God is supposed to be the supreme architect of the universe, there are 100 billion galaxies and 70 sextillion stars, why would that God's great gift to humanity be a short lived manifestation of himself 2,000 years ago in one small section of the globe? Why the whole sacrifice thing? All sorts of cultures came up with the idea of sacrifice, the Jews were not unique in this regard, I don't understand why God would demand innocent blood to pay for the sins of the guilty, this is such an absurd system of justice.
Basically, I am in agreement with many of the moral teachings from the NT, but I just think that everything is so much bigger than the Christian God or the Christian story.
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ScottishJohn
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Thallus Serapion and Tacitus all testify that someone called Christ lived in palestine, caused a stir and died under Pontious Pilate. I have heard several times that there are more historical sources to prove Christs existence than Julius Caesars existence, but I have never been able to verify this. Anyway, IMHO faith is about more than believing in verifyable facts.
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Angel4Truth said:
Isn't that rather like asking, "What would it take for you to trust this head of lettuce?" It's a bit difficult, erm, impossible to even approach the subject of trusting somebody, when it hasn't been established whether that person exists to trust in the first place.
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Phred
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I'd need verifiable evidence that:Angel4Truth said:
1) A deity exists
2) This deity is represented by the Bible.
3) Jesus existed
4) Jesus was divine.
Then I'd need a good explanation for why an all-powerful omnipotent deity would allow people to use its name to commit atrocities yet allow them into heaven should they repent... but a good, kind, decent hindu man would be condemned to eternal suffering for never even hearing of this "god". Why don't we have clear, concise instructions for what this deity wants us to do and what we must do in order to avoid hell?
This deity has some 'splainin' to do for being obtuse and mysterious. If it can explain itself and make me understand it's reasons, then I'll consider "trusting" in Christ.
.
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phred~ God gave us all the gift of free will, so he cannot stop people from doing anything they are determined to do, even if they are doing it in his name. It is true that he will forgive them if they truly realize that what they've done is wrong and ask for his forgiveness, but you shouldn't see this as unfair because He'll forgive anyone who sincerely wants to be forgiven. Also, no one will ever be sent to hell because they have never heard of God. Whether it is a baby that dies or that nice hindu man, if they have never heard of God and had the chance to accept them, he won't send them to helll for that. And as far as what we need to do to avoid hell, all God asks us to do is to believe that Jesus died for you and me because He loves us and wanted to give us another chance to be with him for eternity in Heaven.
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Seeking...
A strange kettle of fish ...
Angel4Truth said:
I'm not sure that you actually mean what you are asking. In order to trust someone you have to have a personal relationship with them and knowledge of them, their beliefs & motives. I don't trust anyone I don't know. What you seem to really be asking is what it would take for people to trust the representation of Christ that is served up in various Christian denominations. My answer to that is that I could not, and would not trust a representation of God created by various men of various purposes and differing motivations. Were Christ to exist and appear to me - I would trust him based solely on his ability to be genuine and real with me.
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