What would it take to trust Christ?

[Angel4Truth]

What do you mean, what I didn't answer? I did PM you, though I admit I didn't really go into the detail of why I changed my faith. If you want, I'll explain it to you, but I think Biblical contradictions are plenty to talk about for tonight.

You didnt answer me to what you wanted God for and what made you sure He wasnt there . I answered your pm although it didnt contain one contradiction.

 

[Eponine]

You didnt answer me to what you wanted God for and what made you sure He wasnt there . I answered your pm although it didnt contain one contradiction.

*Raises eyebrow* I think it did. But that's a whole different discussion. Where God hasn't been there for me was when I was spiritually stagnated, then found myself being drawn (almost literally) irresistably to Wicca. A couple friends of mine persuaded me to give Christianity a second chance, but I still feel no need to believe that Jesus is the only way to life.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to make one minor clarification. Since becoming Wiccan, opportunities for spiritual growth have been so numerous that sometimes I think I could do with less.

 

[HRE]

Angel4Truth, what do you think of the responses to your question?

A huge portion of them simply ask for any evidence whatsoever of Biblical veracity or Christ's divine existence.

How do you respond to these answers?

 

[Angel4Truth]

*Raises eyebrow* I think it did. But that's a whole different discussion. Where God hasn't been there for me was when I was spiritually stagnated, then found myself being drawn (almost literally) irresistably to Wicca. A couple friends of mine persuaded me to give Christianity a second chance, but I still feel no need to believe that Jesus is the only way to life.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to make one minor clarification. Since becoming Wiccan, opportunities for spiritual growth have been so numerous that sometimes I think I could do with less.

Actually you didnt answer me either here or on pm and since you arent being honest now , id say our discussion is over . Hint ; if you need to be dishonest about what you claim to believe or not believe ,chances are you arent beleiving anything resembling truth .

 

[Eponine]

Actually you didnt answer me either here or on pm and since you arent being honest now , id say our discussion is over . Hint ; if you need to be dishonest about what you claim to believe or not believe ,chances are you arent beleiving anything resembling truth .

Let me clarify some more: By "giving Christianity a second chance" I didn't mean return to following the Bible, I just meant going to church and being open to God's work in my life. I apologize for any misconceptions, but if what I just said doesn't explain my "dishonesty" then I don't know where I was being dishonest.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Angel4Truth, what do you think of the responses to your question?

A huge portion of them simply ask for any evidence whatsoever of Biblical veracity or Christ's divine existence.

How do you respond to these answers?

What can I think to them , they didnt come from me and belief in Christ depends on the individual not me , I was simply curious to see how many people really know exactly why they dont believe and what it would take for them .

There were over 500 witnesses that Christ was resurected but not any living today , so it really depends on whether or not you believe History and the other things in the bible that point to God and the conscience that points to God . There will be no excuse before God that each person didnt have opportunity to know the truth . As far as providing evidence myself , thats not my place to do , its the place of each person to seek the truth.

I can offer witness based on my own experience with Christ that what He says is true and that i have a personal relationship with Him , however i cannot make you experience that relationship, Ican only testify to it . So you have the testimony of countless believers and the bible itself and can also experience the truth of God if you desire so in your heart , but only when one is sincerely seeking . The consience testifies to the truth . I cannot and will not speak for other people and what they have done or havent done .

Mostly this was designed for each person to examine themselves as to what it would it take .

 

[Angel4Truth]

Tindomerel , good day and I hope for your sake you dont harden yourself to the truth . I do not discuss things when people have shown me they arent willing to be honest .

 

[Eponine]

Tindomerel , good day and I hope for your sake you dont harden yourself to the truth . I do not discuss things when people have shown me they arent willing to be honest .

Please tell me where I was being dishonest in my beliefs, and I will explain. I was not being deliberately deceptive.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Timdromel, you know what you did on pm , we are finished .You never said anything about 'giving christianity another chance ' and you are saying one thing there and another thing publically and I do not play games . I offered to speak to you sincerely and since you are not so , we are done . One reminder however , prostylizing wiccan is not allowed on this board.

 

[Eponine]

Timdromel, you know what you did on pm , we are finished .You never said anything about 'giving christianity another chance ' and you are saying one thing there and another thing publically and I do not play games . I offered to speak to you sincerely and since you are not so , we are done . One reminder however , prostylizing wiccan is not allowed on this board.

I wasn't meaning to proselytize either. I just anticipated being asked if things were any better where I am now, so I thought I would answer that question ahead of time and save everyone the trouble.

 

[tocis]

What would it take to trust Christ for all of you who are not believers?

A solution to the discrepancy of:

1. Christians commonly insisting, and often actively trying to prove, that Jesus was more than just a radical wandering preacher

and

2. No evidence outside the bible (which can not exactly be considered an unbiased source) and some other questionable short texts that this was the case

would at least increase the chances of my considering to return to christianity.

And some evidence for christian teachings being more than mere legends of men would also be nice. Mind you, my faith is also based on legends... but I have yet to meet an Asatruar who actively tries to convince others that these legends tell the literal truth.
In a way, thus, it's not that I dislike Jesus... but the attitude of many christians is what "turns me off". And, sadly, the "good stuff" about Jesus is but a small part of the bible, and I find many reasons to reject christian doctrine in the rest of the bible, like misogyny, condoning (and often commanding!) slavery and genocide, et cetera. How can this be the "revealed word" of a supposed deity of love?

 

[tocis]

There were over 500 witnesses that Christ was resurected but not any living today...

Aaaah, but where there really?

If the bible tells the truth then yes, there were hundreds of witnesses. But as I see it, the bible can easily have been written by men, and those witnesses can easily have been invented just to impress unbelievers.
I have been given much "proof" for the bible being more than just a book written by men (or rather a collection of books), but so far none of it turned out to be valid. And the sad fact that especially fanatics and fundamentalists reuse that debunked stuff over and over again... suffice it to say that it makes me wonder whether they really try to follow their faith's commandments. Wasn't there a "Thou shalt not bear false witness" somewhere?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Aaaah, but where there really?

If the bible tells the truth then yes, there were hundreds of witnesses. But as I see it, the bible can easily have been written by men, and those witnesses can easily have been invented just to impress unbelievers.
I have been given much "proof" for the bible being more than just a book written by men (or rather a collection of books), but so far none of it turned out to be valid. And the sad fact that especially fanatics and fundamentalists reuse that debunked stuff over and over again... suffice it to say that it makes me wonder whether they really try to follow their faith's commandments. Wasn't there a "Thou shalt not bear false witness" somewhere?

Im curious , the same can be said for almost all of history too then couldnt it? That its not accurate because we didnt witness it ourselves? Why would the disciples show themselves to be cowards if they made it up? Why would women be the ones to find the empty tomb of Christ when it was almost impossible in that day an age for anyone to put any stock in the testimony of women as a witness? Lasty you are assuming its all a lie , then bearing false witness yourself by claiming that people that believe in the God they have evidence of in their own lives lie about it . Doesnt make sense . If you want to know the truth , start with studying the jews and jewish history as compared to what the bible says and the reimergance of Israel a nation . Its something you can get your mind around since Israel came back into being this century and that cannot be disputed .

 

[tocis]

Im curious , the same can be said for almost all of history too then couldnt it?

Generally, what historians consider true is backed up by a tiny little bit more evidence than a sentence in one book that is known to be not too trustworthy in everything (take the biblical flat earth and firmament for example).
But you're welcome to present examples for your point.

Lasty you are assuming its all a lie , then bearing false witness yourself by claiming that people that believe in the God they have evidence of in their own lives lie about it .

If you let this stand as it is, it's merely an unsupported assertion (that evidence exists). Plus, please show me where I mentioned "lie" in my posting.

But anyway:It all depends on the evidence.
I have yet to see objective evidence for the existence of any Divine force, including the Deities I honor. Personal truth a la "I had a vision of Jesus" et cetera is perfect proof for the one who had the vision, but how do you think you can prove to someone else that your vision was true and not some trick of the mind?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Generally, what historians consider true is backed up by a tiny little bit more evidence than a sentence in one book that is known to be not too trustworthy in everything (take the biblical flat earth and firmament for example).
But you're welcome to present examples for your point.



If you let this stand as it is, it's merely an unsupported assertion (that evidence exists). Plus, please show me where I mentioned "lie" in my posting.

But anyway:It all depends on the evidence.
I have yet to see objective evidence for the existence of any Divine force, including the Deities I honor. Personal truth a la "I had a vision of Jesus" et cetera is perfect proof for the one who had the vision, but how do you think you can prove to someone else that your vision was true and not some trick of the mind?

when you claimed that followers of Christ bear false witness to Christ , then you called them liars , thats what bearing false witness is . Just because you have seen no objective evidence to what you consider that to be , it doesnt mean that other people have not received the evidence they require , lastly its not up to anyone to prove anything about their own relationship with God , its up to you to seek God for yourself , you alone are accountable to God for yourself not anyone else . Dont assume because you 'honor' and worship something that you have no evidence of by your own admission that it is the case for others . Id have to wonder why you waste your time on worshiping anything you have no evidence of unless you just like creating your own God by then why not , then you have a god weaker than you are and can change the rules as you see fit . If anything , the latter is the real trick of the mind.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

But anyway: It all depends on the evidence.

I have yet to see objective evidence for the existence of any Divine force, including the Deities I honor. Personal truth a la "I had a vision of Jesus" et cetera is perfect proof for the one who had the vision, but how do you think you can prove to someone else that your vision was true and not some trick of the mind?

Boy have I seen some objective stuff with other people!

Crazy I tell you, crazy. If only you'd been there. But what's crazier to me is the fundies coming after me later on calling me evil, I get a kick out of that.

Especially when they cleave the book they consider to be the Truth. Then why pare the sentences? No one likes it when you turn their tools of persuasion around on them, but it is fun.

That's why I've come to the conclusion that I'm not to fond of most missionaries. The Catholic ones seem cool though, much better than they were back in the old days, but fundamentalist and Mormon missionaries, can someone save me from these people? LOL

 

[Angel4Truth]

Boy have I seen some objective stuff with other people!

Crazy I tell you, crazy. If only you'd been there. But what's crazier to me is the fundies coming after me later on calling me evil, I get a kick out of that.

Especially when they cleave the book they consider to be the Truth. Then why pare the sentences? No one likes it when you turn their tools of persuasion around on them, but it is fun.

That's why I've come to the conclusion that I'm not to fond of most missionaries. The Catholic ones seem cool though, much better than they were back in the old days, but fundamentalist and Mormon missionaries, can someone save me from these people? LOL

Im curious as to when anyone here posting (on this thread) has called you evil?

Can you show me one example where you have "turned our tools of persuasion on us" , I cant seem to find one example of that or that even comes to close to that in this thread or any other that ive seen you post on .

BTW what does any of that have to do with what it would take for you to trust Christ?

Lastly , if you wish to be saved from us fundamentalists , why would you purposely subject yourself to such torture by posting to us deliberately?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

What would it take to trust Christ for all of you who are not believers?

It would have to be shown that he is a real person and that the bible is not myth like all other religions.

 

[Angel4Truth]

It would have to be shown that he is a real person and that the bible is not myth like all other religions.

Do you believe that Julious Ceasar existed? There is more evidence that Christ existed than Juilous Ceasar and even the orthodox jews who reject Jesus Christ agree that He existed , but that He was no who He claimed himself to be .

Im curious as to why you believe he didnt exist at all , when even most secular sources agree that He did in fact exist , but also not as the bible defines Him .

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Do you believe that Julious Ceasar existed? There is more evidence that Christ existed than Juilous Ceasar

Please stop circulating this myth:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/exist.html

We have actual writings from Caesar, as well as his enemies.

and even the orthodox jews who reject Jesus Christ agree that He existed , but that He was no who He claimed himself to be .

A Jesus doesn't mean The Jesus.

Im curious as to why you believe he didnt exist at all , when even most secular sources agree that He did in fact exist , but also not as the bible defines Him .

I haven't seen any evidence for his existance. If someone could point me to a source outside of the bible that does mention him in a context which doesn't have to do with the bible or making a comment on the bible, then I will most certainly look at it.

He probably was a real person, but honestly I have not seen any evidence for it.