What would it take to make you a Christian?

[ananda]

As a matter of fact I have. I have also had out of body experience.

Did you choose life instead of that perfect peace, and why?

 

[Caliban]

More than mere evidence is required to make someone become a Christian. Remember how Jesus did miracles right in front of people and they didn’t believe? Remember how St. Paul tells us we are all dead before we become living Christians, and there’s not much you can do for dead people. Remember how Jesus told Nicodemus you must be born again simply to even see the kingdom of God.

To make a person a Christian needs God’s supernatural initiative to awaken people to the truth and its personal significance, and to draw them to Christ. In doing that God may use “evidence” or he may not.

This line of thinking quickly exculpates apologists from having to provide actual compelling evidence for the supernatural. It gets religious people off the hook. Because you presuppose a spiritual component to how people form intellectual beliefs, you make this claim. But, it's not true. I was a Christian for forty years until I realized that my reasons for what I believed were built on flimsy evidence and poor logic. I thought I had the Holy Spirit, I thought I had a relation ship with Christ, but I was wrong about the nature of reality and the existence of a supernatural realm.

If apologist provided compelling evidence, people would believe. As it turns out, belief in the supernatural in declining in the West.

 

[Caliban]

According to the bible God will make Himself known during the days of the Two Witnesses to come. And also during the last resurrection.

Yes according to the Bible; why should that compel me toward belief?

 

[dlamberth]

Is truth narrowly defined, or is it broad and all encompassing?

I'm of the mind that awakening to and being aware of spiritual presence is pretty important for those wanting to explore Truth.

 

[CherubRam]

Did you choose life instead of that perfect peace, and why?

An existence is more interesting than non-existence.

 

[CherubRam]

I'm of the mind that awakening to and being aware of spiritual presence is pretty important for those wanting to explore Truth.

People will certainly have the opportunity then, but at that time will will also be Judged on how we lived our lives.

 

[CherubRam]

Yes according to the Bible; why should that compel me toward belief?

God is asking the question: Who loves me? This temporary life shows God what we think and feel about all things, including Him.

 

[dlamberth]

People will certainly have the opportunity then, but at that time will will also be Judged on how we lived our lives.

To the OP and my reply. I'm not able to confine God into a single confined human space. That's why I wrote that "IF" Christianity not only believed but experienced the Light of God as alive and vibrant within others of other spiritual paths as well as the very foundation of Life itSelf across the whole of the Cosmos, than just maybe that might move me. Truth, as I understand it, God is the Life Force of everything from the smallest atomic particle to the largest cosmic form's of the Universe.

 

[CherubRam]

To the OP and my reply. I'm not able to confine God into a single confined human space. That's why I wrote that "IF" Christianity not only believed but experienced the Light of God as alive and vibrant within others of other spiritual paths as well as the very foundation of Life itSelf across the whole of the Cosmos, than just maybe that might move me. Truth, as I understand it, God is the Life Force of everything from the smallest atomic particle to the largest cosmic form's of the Universe.

Think about this: All of our moral laws (in the world) come from the bible and spiritual people who believe. Now think about what kind of world would this be without that aspect of spirituality.


Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahwah), "and my servant (Yahshua) whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god (el) was formed, nor will there be one after me.

 

[dlamberth]

Think about this: All of our moral laws (in the world) come from the bible and spiritual people who believe. Now think about what kind of world would this be without that aspect of spirituality.

Not true at all. But the thing is even if true, that isn't what I'd need. I look towards God as a reality, not God as a belief. And God as a reality such that everywhere one looks there God is, is a God that I don't see much of in Christianity.

 

[ananda]

An existence is more interesting than non-existence.

Can your experience of death be truly called a perfect peace, if you chose existence over it? It must've been less than perfect, if existence in life seemed more interesting and appealing to you.

 

[CherubRam]

Can your experience of death be truly called a perfect peace, if you chose existence over it? It must've been less than perfect, if existence in life seemed more interesting and appealing to you.

Psalm 68:20
Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign Lord comes escape from death.

 

[CherubRam]

Not true at all. But the thing is even if true, that isn't what I'd need. I look towards God as a reality, not God as a belief. And God as a reality such that everywhere one looks there God is, is a God that I don't see much of in Christianity.

If God makes Himself known, then everyone would act differently. We are judged by our faith, what is in our hearts and minds.

Isaiah 45:15
Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel.

 

[CherubRam]

Can your experience of death be truly called a perfect peace, if you chose existence over it? It must've been less than perfect, if existence in life seemed more interesting and appealing to you.

Life is a opportunity that would not present its self if you are dead.

 

[jayem]

I haven't read all 200+ posts in this thread. My answer to the OP is probably the same as many others. I'm an atheist, but a sort of Calvinist atheist. If there really is an absolute, sovereign God, who has a plan for the universe, then everything that occurs must be in accordance with God's plan. So why wouldn't this logically include who accepts Jesus and who doesn't? If it's part of God's grand plan that I will be a Christian, then events will be arranged so that it happens. And if I don't become a Christian, then either God is not absolutely sovereign, or my belief was never meant to be.

I'd ask other Christians if they think anyone really chooses to have faith. One might fervently believe that. But is it not possible that God was subconsciously directing his mind? Doesn't the Bible say that faith is a gift? How could anyone know with certainty that he chose God of his own free will, rather than God had chosen him?

 

[CherubRam]

I haven't read all 200+ posts in this thread. My answer to the OP is probably the same as many others. I'm an atheist, but a sort of Calvinist atheist. If there really is an absolute, sovereign God, who has a plan for the universe, then everything that occurs must be in accordance with God's plan. So why wouldn't this logically include who accepts Jesus and who doesn't? If it's part of God's grand plan that I will be a Christian, then events will be arranged so that it happens. And if I don't become a Christian, then either God is not absolutely sovereign, or my belief was never meant to be.

I'd ask other Christians if they think anyone really chooses to have faith. One might fervently believe that. But is it not possible that God was subconsciously directing his mind? Doesn't the Bible say that faith is a gift? How could anyone know with certainty that he chose God of his own free will, rather than God had chosen him?

Mankind was given freewill.

 

[ananda]

Perfect peace can be found in death...

Psalm 68:20
Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign Lord comes escape from death.

Your deity saves you from perfect peace?

 

[ananda]

Life is a opportunity that would not present its self if you are dead.

Opportunity for what?

 

[jayem]

Mankind was given freewill.

That's your belief. But some Christians believe God has elected those who will be saved. So who's correct?

 

[CherubRam]

Opportunity for what?

Many things.