What would it take to disprove atheism?

[edens]

Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

I can't speak for myself but I'm guessing a near death experience would change their mind as it has other atheists.

 

[Mcleanch1]

I can't speak for myself but I'm guessing a near death experience would change their mind as it has other atheists.

Near-death.. I doubt it. The only way would be to actually die... but then we would never know, would we?

 

[Eudaimonist]

I can't speak for myself but I'm guessing a near death experience would change their mind as it has other atheists.

That would be the least likely thing to change my mind. That's not much better than dreaming as evidence for the existence of something external to my mind. If I am not in a reliably conscious and rational state, then I am going to be suspicious of what I experience.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

That would be the least likely thing to change my mind. That's not much better than dreaming as evidence for the existence of something external to my mind. If I am not in a reliably conscious and rational state, then I am going to be suspicious of what I experience.


eudaimonia,

Mark

In my NDE I distinctly had the choice to either leave or remain and reenter my body.

There was nothing but peace in all directions and I could have left, but because I had the choice, it would have been selfish to let go completely. My friends and family would have had no idea what happened. (drowning scenario)

 

[DogmaHunter]

In my NDE I distinctly had the choice to either leave or remain and reenter my body.

There was nothing but peace in all directions and I could have left, but because I had the choice, it would have been selfish to let go completely. My friends and family would have had no idea what happened. (drowning scenario)

That is what you believe.

Do you expect me to take your word for it?

 

[KCfromNC]

I can't speak for myself but I'm guessing a near death experience would change their mind as it has other atheists.

I've had some really weird experiences when my brain function wasn't 100% for whatever reason. They were interesting but don't have anything to do with magical creator gods having themselves killed to repay a blood debt to themselves.

 

[True Scotsman]

Sooooo, if I understand correctly, you accept that God may in fact exist since he is part of nature, even though it's a part of nature that we can't perceive. But at the end of your post, you say you don't recognize anything that is beyond the natural state. Since your profile says you're an atheiest, I'm assuming you don't believe in God. But since you believe in everything in nature, that is everything that exists (even if we can't perceive them), do you not believe in God as well, even if you don't perceive Him?

No not at all because the concept which is "God" contradicts known, perceptually self evident facts of reality, namely the primacy of existence principle. every aspect of the concept is a contradiction of nature and what we can observe about it. I think the concept is invalid. It can exist in the imagination and that's it.

The immaterial things I listed do not entail any contradictions of known facts. Indeed they are also perceptually self evident. We can observe ourselves being conscious and forming concepts. We can't observe God and we can't infer it from sensory perception or from inferences from sensory perception.

 

[PsychoSarah]

All the things you addressed are the natural things. Now, what about things that are beyond the natural state? Even scientists talk about alternate dimensions, and those aren't things we can naturally perceive.

The scope of your experiences is no less restricted than my own or that of any other person really.

 

[VProud]

Absolute and undeniable proof that God does in fact exist. Proof that could ONLY be the result of God existing, has no other explanation. Or prove it mathematically, without making any assumptions at all.

 

[Lollerskates]

Absolute and undeniable proof that God does in fact exist. Proof that could ONLY be the result of God existing, has no other explanation. Or prove it mathematically, without making any assumptions at all.

Near-death.. I doubt it. The only way would be to actually die... but then we would never know, would we?

I said this earlier in the thread, but only death would do it. Even for believers, there is a measure of faith that goes with it. Some of us do not have 100% undeniable proof He exists.

And, since we all die, we will all find out soon enough. No need to worry about "coming back" and showing proof.

 

[MoneyGuy]

I said this earlier in the thread, but only death would do it. Even for believers, there is a measure of faith that goes with it. Some of us do not have 100% undeniable proof He exists.

And, since we all die, we will all find out soon enough. No need to worry about "coming back" and showing proof.

If God doesn't exist, how will death prove it? Think about it.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

If God doesn't exist, how will death prove it? Think about it.

Well if I died and there was no God, no after life or anything at all, I'd be pretty darn disappointed!

 

[Lollerskates]

If God doesn't exist, how will death prove it? Think about it.

Heh, yea.

Well, those who believe it will either be vindicated or highly shocked and humbled. We will all see undeniable truth very soon - even as soon as we die.

 

[VProud]

I said this earlier in the thread, but only death would do it. Even for believers, there is a measure of faith that goes with it. Some of us do not have 100% undeniable proof He exists.

And, since we all die, we will all find out soon enough. No need to worry about "coming back" and showing proof.

Speaking of us 'all dying'
Google '2045.com'
What do you make of that?

 

[Lollerskates]

Speaking of us 'all dying'
Google '2045.com'
What do you make of that?

Honestly, it sounds like a distraction, or Kansas City Shuffle for the masses.

Biotechnological transhumanism is already here... maybe t
2045 is when it will be introduced to the laypeople, especially after catastrophic events happen, making the stock skyrocket as people sell themselves for longevity.

It also sounds like the real mark of the beast: altering DNA to especially avoid everyone's appointment with death. I bet if you are near immortal, and you get tortured beyond belief, you would wish for death, but it will flee from you.

I would never want enhanced longevity in this body. I love life, but not enough to pass up perfection.

 

[VProud]

Honestly, it sounds like a distraction, or Kansas City Shuffle for the masses.

Biotechnological transhumanism is already here... maybe t
2045 is when it will be introduced to the laypeople, especially after catastrophic events happen, making the stock skyrocket as people sell themselves for longevity.

It also sounds like the real mark of the beast: altering DNA to especially avoid everyone's appointment with death. I bet if you are near immortal, and you get tortured beyond belief, you would wish for death, but it will flee from you.

I would never want enhanced longevity in this body. I love life, but not enough to pass up perfection.

I think the idea is eventually our bodies can be altered to the point in which we cannot be hurt or harmed.
Still, I can see your point.

This is fairly irrelevant, though!

What's with the desire to 'Disprove' Atheism anyway? Surely God knows why Atheists are the way they are, and if they have a good enough reason for it, in their heart of hearts, surely the fact that hasn't directly intervened means there is not a problem?

 

[Lollerskates]

I think the idea is eventually our bodies can be altered to the point in which we cannot be hurt or harmed.
Still, I can see your point.

This is fairly irrelevant, though!

What's with the desire to 'Disprove' Atheism anyway? Surely God knows why Atheists are the way they are, and if they have a good enough reason for it, in their heart of hearts, surely the fact that hasn't directly intervened means there is not a problem?

I believe the main reason to disprove atheism, or even show something else exists, is that atheism has become culturally and academically synonymous with "logic, reason and intelligence." As if, any other theist, pagan, or believer in something else does not use logic, reason or have intelligence. For example, in science (especially the big three: chemistry, biology and physics,) one can become a social pariah for open profession of any theism, and an academic shun. People are usually negatively judged when told they are believers and followers of any thing.

And then, atheist often attack Christians and other theists for their belief, so it becomes a defense of character for believers. These days, it is just mental and philosophical melee.

If atheism wasn't so hip in popular, science, technology and municipal culture, then it wouldn't be an issue. But, culture treats academia as truth, and atheism as reasoned and logical enlightenment.

 

[variant]

Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

1 observable God.

 

[JGG]

And then, atheist often attack Christians and other theists for their belief, so it becomes a defense of character for believers. These days, it is just mental and philosophical melee.

I'm sorry, what's that? Atheists are attacking the character of believers?

 

[VProud]

I believe the main reason to disprove atheism, or even show something else exists, is that atheism has become culturally and academically synonymous with "logic, reason and intelligence." As if, any other theist, pagan, or believer in something else does not use logic, reason or have intelligence. For example, in science (especially the big three: chemistry, biology and physics,) one can become a social pariah for open profession of any theism, and an academic shun. People are usually negatively judged when told they are believers and followers of any thing.

And then, atheist often attack Christians and other theists for their belief, so it becomes a defense of character for believers. These days, it is just mental and philosophical melee.

If atheism wasn't so hip in popular, science, technology and municipal culture, then it wouldn't be an issue. But, culture treats academia as truth, and atheism as reasoned and logical enlightenment.

Honestly, I don't see why Atheism is seen as smart. To actively claim that there cannot be such a thing as God is arrogant, in my honest opinion.
Nobody can really, truly, honestly know either way.

But I get your point. It's a shame that it's so hard for humans to accept others.