What would happen if we all realized something...

[UberLutheran]

...and that is that whichever side of the argument we're on, our minds are already pretty much made up and nobody here is going to change anybody else's mind on the subject; and given that, we all agreed to disagree?

Just a thought. After convalescing for a month, I realized we're getting absolutely nowhere with these arguments, so it might be time to give it a rest -- unless, of course, we enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I came to this forum thinking homosexuality was ok.
Things can change. :/

 

[Zaac]

...and that is that whichever side of the argument we're on, our minds are already pretty much made up and nobody here is going to change anybody else's mind on the subject; and given that, we all agreed to disagree?

Just a thought. After convalescing for a month, I realized we're getting absolutely nowhere with these arguments, so it might be time to give it a rest -- unless, of course, we enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing.

What would happen if we realized that there is no argument and that God has already decreed what is sin

I would certainly hope that no Christian has come into this forum thinking that they can change anyone's mind. God has not called us to do so. This demands a change of heart and that is a work of GOD.

Ours is simply to dleiver His Truth by which men are made free.

 

[Zaac]

I came to this forum thinking homosexuality was ok.
Things can change. :/

Biblically, there is no problem with homosexuality or the state of being one with an attraction to the same sex. The problem is the fornicative acts committed by the homosexual.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Biblically, there is no problem with homosexuality or the state of being one with an attraction to the same sex. The problem is the fornicative acts committed by the homosexual.

That's what I meant. -_-;

 

[UberLutheran]

What would happen if we realized that there is no argument and that God has already decreed what is sin

I would certainly hope that no Christian has come into this forum thinking that they can change anyone's mind. God has not called us to do so. This demands a change of heart and that is a work of GOD.

Ours is simply to dleiver His Truth by which men are made free.

Well, you're still Baptist; and I'm still Lutheran -- and you're straight, and I'm gay; and you're a Biblical literalist and I believe the Bible (in English) was never meant to be read literally; and you believe the Bible is inerrant and I believe the Bible (read literally) has lots of mistakes; and you believe God chose the canon of the Scriptures and I believe it was chosen by a committee of very fallible men at the Nicene Council; and you don't particularly like me and I don't particularly like you -- so: what has changed?

Besides, of course, the fact that the general level of antagonism between us has risen a great deal, we're even more suspicious of each other's motives, and we're inclined to dismiss what each other says even before we read it.

 

[David Brider]

...and that is that whichever side of the argument we're on, our minds are already pretty much made up and nobody here is going to change anybody else's mind on the subject; and given that, we all agreed to disagree?

Just a thought. After convalescing for a month, I realized we're getting absolutely nowhere with these arguments, so it might be time to give it a rest -- unless, of course, we enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing.

A few months ago, I decided that I wasn't going to get into any debates round here - it was doing my head in, at times I was finding it emotionally painful, and ultimately, as you say, it goes round in circles and achieves nothing. I've since drifted back into debates, albeit a bit more halfheartedly. I still hope to be able to change a few minds, but realistically, I guess I don't hold out much hope. Whenever I feel all negative like that, I just head over to WWMC, which is generally a good place to relax and unwind.

David.

 

[BAFRIEND]

This reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld when George decides to wear only sweats because it will simplify his life.

Jerry tells him that he has given up competing (ie surrendered).

If the homosexuals decide to no longer come here and proliferate that Chrisitianity is compatable with the gay lifestyle then my goal and ministry is achieved.

Yes, it would have been nice to have saved a few of you, but ending the scandal and proliferating is also a victory.

Peace, UberLutheran (and also I do love you, just not the way you want me to... (re: Reject satan)).

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

So your goal is to get people to just come at peace with you? Or do you really think that's the equvalent of you winning? Winning would mean us surrendering and saying "Yeah you're right". I don't like this forum, but I don't like hatred and intolerance even more so I stay. I would rather this argument not have to exist.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Uberlutheran,

Well, you're still Baptist; and I'm still Lutheran

But unlike condemnation of same-sex sex as error, God’s word does not refer to people as Baptist or Lutheran, that’s your problem.

and you're straight, and I'm gay;

I’m gay too, I have a joyful disposition. But although joy is complete for disciples of Jesus who obey His teaching and therefore know the truth John 15.

and you're a Biblical literalist and I believe the Bible (in English) was never meant to be read literally; and you believe the Bible is inerrant and I believe the Bible (read literally) has lots of mistakes;

Yes, better to be a Bible literalist than a Bible illiteralist..

and you believe God chose the canon of the Scriptures and I believe it was chosen by a committee of very fallible men at the Nicene Council; and you don't particularly like me and I don't particularly like you -- so: what has changed?

the cannon of scripture speaks for itself, it’s the same Holy Spirit that guided its compilation as the Holy Spirit that inspired the writers to record the testimony of Jesus. Don’t you believe the Bible and the word of God?

Besides, of course, the fact that the general level of antagonism between us has risen a great deal, we're even more suspicious of each other's motives, and we're inclined to dismiss what each other says even before we read it.

Alas I believe you are dismissing God’s word and attributing it to other people.

 

[Zaac]

Well, you're still Baptist; and I'm still Lutheran -- and you're straight, and I'm gay; and you're a Biblical literalist and I believe the Bible (in English) was never meant to be read literally; and you believe the Bible is inerrant and I believe the Bible (read literally) has lots of mistakes; and you believe God chose the canon of the Scriptures and I believe it was chosen by a committee of very fallible men at the Nicene Council; and you don't particularly like me and I don't particularly like you -- so: what has changed?

Like I've said before, you want to think too much and seem to be under the assumption that what you think changes what God says.

Literal or figurative. God's Word says what it says and if what you think is at odds with what He says, you're wrong and He is right. That simple.

And on the contrary, I not only like you. I love you. We can disagree on many different levels. But I don't take it personally and have no reason to "not like you." Being able to love you demands that I "like" you first.

Besides, of course, the fact that the general level of antagonism between us has risen a great deal, we're even more suspicious of each other's motives, and we're inclined to dismiss what each other says even before we read it.

No antagonism here. Just calling a spade a spade. You've modeled your entire theology around what allows you to justify this sin as have many others in this forum. And because of that, your discernment in other areas are skewed.

 

[davedjy]

Yes, it would have been nice to have saved a few of you, but ending the scandal and proliferating is also a victory.

Saved a few of us from what?

 

[HaloHope]

I don't really expect many of the people who believe homosexuality is a sin to change their minds.

My aim (as Ive said many times before) is to just voice a different opinion, stand up against intolerance and bigotry, and show people they can be Christians and in a relationship with a member of the same-sex if that is part of how God made them.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Halohope,
But you havent shown that. We have demonstrated your view to be error by the scriptures cited. All you have done is dispute and disbelive the scriptures. Your ideas about what God thinks are based on not believing God

 

[HaloHope]

Dear Halohope,
But you havent shown that. We have demonstrated your view to be error by the scriptures cited. All you have done is dispute and disbelive the scriptures. Your ideas about what God thinks are based on not believing God

*yawns* Wrong. Im so fed up with this "your not Christian as I say so" response I can't be bothered to explain things anymore.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Halohope,

yawns* Wrong. Im so fed up with this "your not Christian as I say so" response I can't be bothered to explain things anymore.

Where have I said you arent a Christian? If not please don't make false statements. Maybe the scriptures are telling you something.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I don't really expect many of the people who believe homosexuality is a sin to change their minds.

My aim (as Ive said many times before) is to just voice a different opinion, stand up against intolerance and bigotry, and show people they can be Christians and in a relationship with a member of the same-sex if that is part of how God made them.

That is why they call it a debate forum... yawn.

 

[Zaac]

My aim (as Ive said many times before) is to just voice a different opinion, stand up against intolerance and bigotry, and show people they can be Christians and in a relationship with a member of the same-sex if that is part of how God made them.

If your relationship is just a friendship , you're good. But if there is a sexual aspect to it, you need to stop telling that lie.

 

[davedjy]

But if there is a sexual aspect to it, you need to stop telling that lie.

That lie? it would be a lie to say that the Bible condemns a monogamous, same sex relationship.

 

[Zaac]

That lie? it would be a lie to say that the Bible condemns a monogamous, same sex relationship.

Which is why THAT was not said.

The Bible condemns same-sex fornicative acts. Monogamous same-sex sex acts are STILL fornication.