What would happen if we all realized something...

[davedjy]

Which is why THAT was not said.

The Bible condemns same-sex fornicative acts. Monogamous same-sex sex acts are STILL fornication.

OK, the Bible condemns same sex fornicative acts. The same sex acts that are in a life-long commitment aren't fornication, just as heterosexual ones aren't. See where I'm going with the holes in your argument?

 

[Zaac]

OK, the Bible condemns same sex fornicative acts.

The same sex acts that are in a life-long commitment aren't fornication, just as heterosexual ones aren't. See where I'm going with the holes in your argument?

A life long committment is not entering into marriage covenant with Jesus Christ.

Any sex outside this marriage covenant is Biblically fornication.

Two people of the same-sex cannot enter a marriage covenant with Jesus Christ.

God is a God of order. He is not a God of confusion.

The Bible says 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:24

A God of order does not tell a man to leave his father and mother and be united to his WIFE if the man is to leave his father and mother and be united with someone of the same sex.

That breeds confusion as to what God says, and thus it is NOT of God.

From the start of His Word to the end, there is not a single time in which a "marriage" between people of the same sex would not breed confusion as to what He says is the marriage relationship.

He even identifies the model in that He is the Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride.

 

[davedjy]

Two people of the same-sex cannot enter a marriage covenant with Jesus Christ.

You cannot prove that 2 people of the same sex cannot "enter into a covenant with Jesus Christ".

God is a God of order. He is not a God of confusion.

There isn't anything confusing. The Bible is silent on a sexual orientation, just as it wasn't part of the historical context. However, slavery, forced and arranged marriages were. You know, like the verse about the rape victim being forced to marry her attacker, or the slave that may be forced to marry, and free to let go at the Master's discretion.

The Bible says 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:24

Yes, this does not condemn same sex relationships in any way, nor does it prove it is an "exclusive" marriage model.

 

[PostTribber]

...and that is that whichever side of the argument we're on, our minds are already pretty much made up and nobody here is going to change anybody else's mind on the subject; and given that, we all agreed to disagree?

Just a thought. After convalescing for a month, I realized we're getting absolutely nowhere with these arguments, so it might be time to give it a rest -- unless, of course, we enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing.

you nailed it! plus, arguing is America's favorite Pass Time. everything's an 'issue', and truth 'relative'. crazy world we live in. makes me laugh when people say Christ will not return until we are without 'spot & wrinkle' (HA HA!). besides, the Church (in America) is having too much fun, and are in no hurry to see Jesus any time soon. we like it here, and are in no hurry to leave anytime soon. we're telling God, "Can't Touch This!" and even then only if you take us before the 'tribulation'. good thing God Is God and not us!

 

[Zaac]

You cannot prove that 2 people of the same sex cannot "enter into a covenant with Jesus Christ".

I don't have to prove it. The Word of God proves what He intends for marriage to be in that He tells us WHO is to be united as one.

Again, your bias in looking for an avenue to allow an alternative causes you to ignore the obvious Words on the pages of the Bible.

There isn't anything confusing. The Bible is silent on a sexual orientation, just as it wasn't part of the historical context.

The Word of God doesn't have to speak to orientation when God has not intrinsically said anything was sinful about orientation.

His Word speaks to the performing of ACTS. He addresses fornicative heterosexual acts and He addresses fornicative homosexual acts.

However, slavery, forced and arranged marriages were. You know, like the verse about the rape victim being forced to marry her attacker, or the slave that may be forced to marry, and free to let go at the Master's discretion.

You can save the commentative sound bites. These are red herrings that are not addressing what you and I are talking about.

 

[davedjy]

His Word speaks to the performing of ACTS. He addresses fornicative heterosexual acts and He addresses fornicative homosexual acts.

Which you have YET to prove ALL acts are fornication to start.

You can save the commentative sound bites. These are red herrings that are not addressing what you and I are talking about.

Yes, they are...it all has to do with "Biblical models of marriage". YOU want to use the Bible to show the Biblical models of marriage, yet there are plenty of models of marriages promoted that in our current day context would be preposterous at best..YOU are cherry picking.

 

[Zaac]

Which you have YET to prove ALL acts are fornication to start.

You have yet to prove that ALL murder is murder, or that ALL lies are lies, or that ALL stealing is stealing.

Complete foolishness that continues to show that the only way somebdoy takes the stance that you have is because of a bias that wants the text to say something else.

After it's proven that it is ALL, you'll go to what an ACT is. From there you'll move to what FORNICATION is.

I'll leave the children's games to the children. If you want to jump through hoops and grasp for straws that you feel allow a loophole to get the text to say what you want it to, go right ahead.

But know for sure, The Truth of God's Word is much simpler than all this mess that yall create to complicate it.

When people breed confusion because they have to twist and turn to get the Word to say something that contradicts what God says, it breeds confusion, and is easily identified as not of God.

Yes, they are...it all has to do with "Biblical models of marriage". YOU want to use the Bible to show the Biblical models of marriage, yet there are plenty of models of marriages promoted that in our current day context would be preposterous at best..YOU are cherry picking.

Not cherry picking. There is still nothing of any of those situations that affirms anything other than male-female marriage.

 

[HaloHope]

If your relationship is just a friendship , you're good. But if there is a sexual aspect to it, you need to stop telling that lie.

It's not a lie.

Friendships can grow into relationships which can grow into love which can grow into sex (imho its a natural progression once you find that one special person). THe gender of those involved is irrelevant.

Your romantic partner SHOULD be your best freind imho.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear davedjy,

That lie? it would be a lie to say that the Bible condemns a monogamous, same sex relationship

On the contrary, it would be a lie to say the Bible countenances monogamous same-sex relationships, something you are promoting.
It is possible to show that the Bible condemns same-sex sexual relationships as we have done,

OK, the Bible condemns same sex fornicative acts. The same sex acts that are in a life-long commitment aren't fornication, just as heterosexual ones aren't. See where I'm going with the holes in your argument?

Yes you are trying to justify the sin of same-sex sex by disbelief and deception. As God’s purpose is woman to be in faithful union with man Gen 2, Matt 19, Eph 5 etc, that rules out same-sex unions either promiscuous or monogamous. As God’s word says same-sex acts are error Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1. that rules out same-sex sexual unions. As Jesus teaches that fornication and adultery breaks God’s man/woman faithful union Matt 19, 1 Cor 5-7, that’s rules out same-sex sexual relationships and as Jesus offers celibacy as the alternative Matt 19, 1 Cor 7, that rules out same-sex sexual relationships.
All you have done so far is show us how much of the Bible you don’t believe whist providing no evidence to show where the Bible countenances any same-sex sex let alone monogamous.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Halohope,

Friendships can grow into relationships which can grow into love

Sorry, I dont understand how one can have a friendship without any love.

which can grow into sex

Hmmn. No one doesnt need to love somoen to have sex with them, what about prostitution?

(imho its a natural progression once you find that one special person).

Ah but if you find Jesus as the specail person you dont want sex with Him do you?

 

[HaloHope]

Dear Halohope,
Sorry, I dont understand how one can have a friendship without any love.

I will concede that all freindships need love of some level. However, the freindships I have with my work collegues for example are extremely different to the freindship I have with my girlfreind. There is a far greater connection between myself and my partner, a far deeper love and a stronger emotional bond.

Hmmn. No one doesnt need to love somoen to have sex with them, what about prostitution?

I never said that sex required love for everyone. FOr me however it does, and for a relationship to be blessed by God I believe it needs to involve love too.

Ah but if you find Jesus as the specail person you dont want sex with Him do you?

No but Jesus isnt the "special person" to replace the romantic sexual relaitonship most humans desire.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Halohope,

I will concede that all freindships need love of some level. However, the freindships I have with my work collegues for example are extremely different to the freindship I have with my girlfreind. There is a far greater connection between myself and my partner, a far deeper love and a stronger emotional bond.

Ok but this was an integral part of your reasoning why you claimed something a lie. What was written was not a lie as you have now demonstrated by admitting your argument was flawed.

I never said that sex required love for everyone.

I never said you did, what you said was friendships can grow….

Friendships can grow into relationships which can grow into love which can grow into sex (imho its a natural progression once you find that one special person).

I was addressing what you did say, not what you didn’t say.

FOr me however it does, and for a relationship to be blessed by God I believe it needs to involve love too.

Ok but I have shown the scriptures which say Gods’ purpose is for man and woman and therefore not same-sex union and scriptures which says same-sex sex is error.
Now please provide some scriptures which countenance same-sex sex.

No but Jesus isnt the "special person" to replace the romantic sexual relationship most humans desire.

then according to the Bible you cant be a disciple of Jesus.
Luke 14 “Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

33 “In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.”
Matthew 13 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.”

I am seeking to make Jesus the most important person in my life.