What Would Falsify the Flood?

[Subduction Zone]

Why only one thin layer? I've seen local floods that left multiple layers.
Especially with wave action like in the ocean over say a hill and into a basin.

Really? Where? And I am sure it was still a fairly thin layer.

The reason there would be at best a thin layer of fossils, which was what I said more than once, is that is all that would live on the Earth at one time.

And the objections to the flood are unending. Too many fossils for a one time event. Fossils sorted in a way that creationists cannot explain. Huge Manatees out running raptors for example. Worse yet no explanation at all for microscopic fossils, many of which are index fossils. The changing environments of deposition from land based to sea to land and sea several times. Did the flood come and go and come and go? Not only that but various uncomformities at different times around the world shows that there was no world wide flood. Ever.

 

[EternalDragon]

One more time for your education:

And the paper that the video was based upon:

And one more time for your education. It's described in simplest form and does not explain why it was assembled in a step wise fashion.

The FliD that is the cap for forming the tail of the flagellum is not
homologues in non-flagellar systems.

The Flagellar Filament Cap: "One of the Most Dynamic Movements in Protein Structures" - Evolution News & Views

 

[kellhus]

And one more time for your education. It's described in simplest form and does not explain why it was assembled in a step wise fashion.

The FliD that is the cap for forming the tail of the flagellum is not
homologues in non-flagellar systems.

The Flagellar Filament Cap: "One of the Most Dynamic Movements in Protein Structures" - Evolution News & Views

Do you have an actual scientific source?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And one more time for your education. It's described in simplest form and does not explain why it was assembled in a step wise fashion.

The FliD that is the cap for forming the tail of the flagellum is not
homologues in non-flagellar systems.

The Flagellar Filament Cap: "One of the Most Dynamic Movements in Protein Structures" - Evolution News & Views

It goes through all of the steps of evolution of the flagellum. The video is of course very simple. It has to be. The linked paper is not. And then the paper has links to its sources.

And your source is not valid. It has been debunked too many times. It is run by the Discovery Institute and it is so poor that even they are ashamed to put their name openly as the people in control of "EvolutionNews"

See if you can find an honest source.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I had to read the idiotic source that E.D. linked. Look at the incredibly bad logic of the first paragraph alone:

Imagine you are an archaeologist surveying the remains of a formerly technologically advanced civilization. You stumble across the device depicted in the figure above. With its pentagon-shaped plate and its carefully crafted leg-like extensions, it looks like it came from some sort of machine. Immediately, you intuitively infer that the device was designed intentionally, for a purpose. This isn't the kind of device that is typically created by forces of nature such as wind and erosion. - See more at: The Flagellar Filament Cap: "One of the Most Dynamic Movements in Protein Structures" - Evolution News & Views

It wants you to assume that the growth was designed and built by an outside agency before you even investigate it. This is called "poisoning the well" in debates.

Of course you could say the same about snowflakes. In other words don't make unfounded assumptions and then base a whole article on those bad assumptions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And E.D., you need to rewatch the video a few times. It is very clear why the flagellum evolved in a step wise manner.

So watch it again. And again. And again. Until you start to understand it.

The rotator flagellum claim has been busted.

Next!

 

[lasthero]

I would say he was just lucky. He accidentally saw the skull sticking out a cliff. Not where they were digging. Maybe he just made up the rest so it sounded good to the press. You were not there, I was not there.

Besides, similarities proves nothing other than....similarities.

By the by, I know this is late, but I just wanted to say this has got to be the most absolutely pathetic thing I've ever seen anyone post. It's so obviously weak that, at some level, you have to realize how much it is. I can't believe you even found this convincing as you wrote it.

And are you ever going to explain what you would actually consider a transitional fossil to be, if Tiktaalik isn't one? If something with amphibian and fish features isn't transitional, what is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

By the by, I know this is late, but I just wanted to say this has got to be the most absolutely pathetic thing I've ever seen anyone post. It's so obviously weak that, at some level, you have to realize how much it is. I can't believe you even found this convincing as you wrote it.

And are you ever going to explain what you would actually consider a transitional fossil to be, if Tiktaalik isn't one? If something with amphibian and fish features isn't transitional, what is?

I have yet to see E.D. admit that he is wrong. Though just about every post of his usually has some sort of terrible error in it. Even when he is talking about his Bible.

 

[mzungu]

The rotator flagellum claim has been

​

 

[EternalDragon]

I had to read the idiotic source that E.D. linked. Look at the incredibly bad logic of the first paragraph alone:



It wants you to assume that the growth was designed and built by an outside agency before you even investigate it. This is called "poisoning the well" in debates.

Of course you could say the same about snowflakes. In other words don't make unfounded assumptions and then base a whole article on those bad assumptions.

So you are saying that a complex nanomachine just arose.....put itself together piece by piece without direction or knowing the outcome.....by happenstance?

Things just started...coming together....in that exact fashion?

Those steps in your video are all multiple, coordinated changes. Plus the fact that other bacteria have the same flagellum designs meaning it happened by mere chance again the same way.

It has not been busted in the least.

 

[lasthero]

So you are saying that a complex nanomachine

Why do you call it complex? Please, explain.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you are saying that a complex nanomachine just arose.....put itself together piece by piece without direction or knowing the outcome.....by happenstance?

Things just started...coming together....in that exact fashion?

Those steps in your video are all multiple, coordinated changes. Plus the fact that other bacteria have the same flagellum designs meaning it happened by mere chance again the same way.

It has not been busted in the least.

No, each step is very simple. It is just the addition of a molecule. Watch it again

And again.

And again.

Your story has been busted.

 

[EternalDragon]

No, each step is very simple. It is just the addition of a molecule. Watch it again

And again.

And again.

Your story has been busted.

I'm going to guess you are like maybe 19 years old? Possibly 20's at the most?

Each step to make an engine is very simple....yeah. It has 40 parts and 200 kinds of proteins that all have to be in exact places. Natural selection would naturally weed those parts out without function so it could not build all these parts on it's own step by step.

Can you show me a partially developed one? Without video animation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm going to guess you are like maybe 19 years old? Possibly 20's at the most?

Each step to make an engine is very simple....yeah. It has 40 parts and 200 kinds of proteins that all have to be in exact places. Natural selection would naturally weed those parts out without function so it could not build all these parts on it's own step by step.

Can you show me a partially developed one? Without video animation.

Watch the insults, you can get yourself in trouble for that. I am not the one who cannot do science here. I am not the one who keeps making incredibly foolish mistakes here.


You just contradicted yourself. Natural selection WOULD naturally weed out poorer performing bacteria. That is the nature of natural selection.

And the location occurs because once you have a port, the first step which would evolve on its own for many purposes, only certain proteins could bond to it. The ones that functioned would be selected. Step by step, the parts that work would be selected for. Natural selection is such an obvious idea that is seems almost tautological and you are trying to deny it

I am not going to try to educate the purposefully ignorant anymore tonight.

I will pick up on your inevitable errors tomorrow.

And watch the video a few more times. Perhaps you might want to read the linked paper for more detail.

 

[Loudmouth]

And how far down did they have to dig to get to this 300 million year old fossil?

It was in a cliff, so the digging was already done.

Can you get back to the topic of the thread?

The neat little pictures with all the layers mapped out looks like the way things would die and get buried if the flood waters started in the bottom of the ocean by subduction and then killed things on the way up. Sea animals and sea plants getting killed first. Land animals getting killed and buried last.

What organization of layers would not be consistent with a flood?

 

[Loudmouth]

Why only one thin layer? I've seen local floods that left multiple layers.

Can you show us a flood that has left fossil bearing limestone?

 

[lasthero]

Sea animals and sea plants getting killed first. Land animals getting killed and buried last.

And yet we don't find any whales or dolphins near the bottom levels with the other marine animals. They appear higher up, only AFTER mammals pop onto the scene. Why would that be?

Also, you'd think animals that are well adapted to living in water, like amphibians and penguins and such - you'd think they would be the absolute last to die in such conditions. In fact, you'd think animals that can fly, like birds and bats and such, would be the absolute LAST to die, even after humans...but they're not exclusively found at the top levels.

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet we don't find any whales or dolphins near the bottom levels with the other marine animals. They appear higher up, only AFTER mammals pop onto the scene. Why would that be?

Because whales and dolphins have lungs, instead of gills; meaning they have to surface at times to get air through their blowholes?

 

[lasthero]

Because whales and dolphins have lungs, instead of gills; meaning they have to surface at times to get air through their blowholes?

If that's the way you want to look at, then why aren't they at the absolute top?

Come to think of, why do you figure that the flood would kill sea animals first?

 

[AV1611VET]

If that's the way you want to look at, then why aren't they at the absolute top?

I don't know.

You guys complain they aren't at the bottom, now you're whining they aren't at the top.

Make up my mind, will you?

Come to think of, why do you figure that the flood would kill sea animals first?

My calculator must not be working.

Where did I ever figure that?