What Would Falsify the Flood? (2)

[PsychoSarah]

Creationists been mean to ya?

I have had stuff thrown at me, been called names, been subject to various attempts at conversion that occasionally became volatile. So yeah, sometimes creationists are mean to us.

 

[dad]

Jesus is a different case. How many Christians today can honestly say they directly communicate with god or angels?

All can communicate, because He has given us a book, that says stuff He wanted to say.

People don't get that benefit. If an angel appeared to me right now, I would have to be an idiot not to believe, because that is objective evidence for god.

No good. Evil angels appear also. An angel that apparently pretended to be Gabriel appeared to Mohamed. It wasn't Gabe. We do not need to believe angels unless they jive with the bible. The real Gabriel jived perfectly when He spoke to Mary or Daniel.

Jesus, if the bible is correct, is presented with objective evidence for god. We are not.

Knowing and believing are not the same thing, if you truly knew that people go to paradise when they die, people would celebrate funerals happily, people would cross their fingers for a cancer diagnosis, people would always welcome death.

In a perfect world, maybe you would have a point. However Peter started to sink under the waves when he thought about how impossible walking on water was! We are not perfect yet, and besides, God has a time for each of us. We are to believe that we have stuff to learn and do before that time comes, not try to make that time come right away! But yes, when that time does come, believers ought to smile.

Come on over to the smilin side.

Yet believers and nonbelievers alike dread it. What is it that you fear, could it be, that creeping thought in the back of your mind, that it may not be true?

Apparently when the time comes we will have more grace for it

If paradise were obviously real, no one would cry for the dead, and dying for one's country in a war wouldn't be a sacrifice.

Pity those that died for a nation that claimed to be on God's side. His country is the only country worth dying for!

Ultimately, life would have no value at all, because it would only be a small, insignificant part of an infinite existence.

I disagree. We need to learn stuff even in kindergarten. After all believers are to rule with Christ forever. Who wants a bunch of selfish, petty, clueless rulers!? We get more than enough of that here!

 

[AV1611VET]

How about complaining about hypocrites who deny picking and choosing?

No, thanks.

I'll pass.

 

[AV1611VET]

Now, if only reality were composed of one-syllable words...

You would understand it just as well as you understand 1 John 5:12 -- right?

 

[dad]

I have had stuff thrown at me, been called names, been subject to various attempts at conversion that occasionally became volatile. So yeah, sometimes creationists are mean to us.

Right, I guess human nature is what it is. The same is true of either side of a debate where humans are involved! I get it from both sides There is always the religionists that like to not so slyly say that one is not really saved, or God's child. Jesus had the same problem.

 

[PsychoSarah]

To be frank, I would view the appearance of an evil angel, demon, the devil, etc., as objective proof of god as well (I know it is flawed logic, but if one were proven to exist, it stands to reason that the antithesis of them is more likely to be real).

An angel is a creation of god, evil or not, close enough to make a believer out of me either way. But I would have to actually see one.

 

[dad]

To be frank, I would view the appearance of an evil angel, demon, the devil, etc., as objective proof of god as well (I know it is flawed logic, but if one were proven to exist, it stands to reason that the antithesis of them is more likely to be real).

Right, well fasten your seat belts...

An angel is a creation of god, evil or not, close enough to make a believer out of me either way. But I would have to actually see one.

Ok, but unless it agrees with Jesus and the Scripture..don't believe it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Right, I guess human nature is what it is. The same is true of either side of a debate where humans are involved! I get it from both sides There is always the religionists that like to not so slyly say that one is not really saved, or God's child. Jesus had the same problem.

I wouldn't say that my problems are at the same level as those of Jesus, although there are people crucified and likewise tortured even today.

However, I have never heard of atheists specifically lynching theists (unless you count communist regimes, which I do not. I only count someone as a member of a faith/nonreligious if they are given the freedom to explore other possibilities).

 

[PsychoSarah]

Right, well fasten your seat belts...


Ok, but unless it agrees with Jesus and the Scripture..don't believe it.

Well yeah, I wouldn't believe it was an angel just because it said it was. It would need to do something only an angel could do (permanently make the plants in my room suddenly triple in size, as an example).

 

[dad]

I wouldn't say that my problems are at the same level as those of Jesus, although there are people crucified and likewise tortured even today.

Right, like those killed and crucified by the muslim brotherhood folks that the US supported.

However, I have never heard of atheists specifically lynching theists (unless you count communist regimes, which I do not.

The devil is a Theist. God's people are under His care, and any evil person or spirit must be allowed to do stuff involved His Own.

I only count someone as a member of a faith/nonreligious if they are given the freedom to explore other possibilities).

So they can believe as long as they don't really believe?

 

[TLK Valentine]

You would understand it just as well as you understand 1 John 5:12 -- right?

Of course -- it would be ever so much simpler; hardly any effort required.

No wonder you often tell reality to take a hike.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The devil is a Theist.

Then you're in good company.

God's people are under His care, and any evil person or spirit must be allowed to do stuff involved His Own.

So much for care.

So they can believe as long as they don't really believe?

Nope -- the believe so long as they are given the choice to believe.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Right, like those killed and crucified by the muslim brotherhood folks that the US supported.


The devil is a Theist. God's people are under His care, and any evil person or spirit must be allowed to do stuff involved His Own.



So they can believe as long as they don't really believe?

I was meaning that you cannot force someone to believe something, I suppose I worded that poorly. Anyway, a person who claims to be of a certain faith to stay alive isn't of that faith in my opinion.

 

[OllieFranz]

I was meaning that you cannot force someone to believe something, I suppose I worded that poorly. Anyway, a person who claims to be of a certain faith to stay alive isn't of that faith in my opinion.

For example, the Marranos, the "hidden Jews," during the Spanih Inquisition. Despite their public (and forced) conversions, they remained Jews, and not Christians, and, if discovered, were as liable for the tortures of the Inqusitors as if they'd never converted.

 

[PsychoSarah]

For example, the Marranos, the "hidden Jews," during the Spanih Inquisition. Despite their public (and forced) conversions, they remained Jews, and not Christians, and, if discovered, were as liable for the tortures of the Inqusitors as if they'd never converted.

Pretty much. Likewise, no matter the torment so theists have put me through, they can't make me believe in a god.

 

[dad]

I was meaning that you cannot force someone to believe something, I suppose I worded that poorly. Anyway, a person who claims to be of a certain faith to stay alive isn't of that faith in my opinion.

But the martyrs of God did not stay alive by claiming faith in Christ.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, thanks.

I'll pass.

Never bite the hand that feeds, eh?

 

[Loudmouth]

That is a given, since the windows of heaven were opened, however if the nature was also different, that leaves science out of the loop.
There sure was a great wind at the latter stage of the flood! I don't see how you could drown a planet totally and quickly without some wind and waves though. Not very strong speculation.

God planting DNA and fingerprints at crime scenes would also be indistinguishable from the natural process of a crime occurring. Does this mean that we should free everyone who was convicted by DNA and fingerprint evidence?

 

[EternalDragon]

God planting DNA and fingerprints at crime scenes would also be indistinguishable from the natural process of a crime occurring. Does this mean that we should free everyone who was convicted by DNA and fingerprint evidence?

I don't see how planting evidence at a crime scene has anything
to do with the discussion.

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't see how planting evidence at a crime scene has anything
to do with the discussion.

I am showing the intellectual bankruptcy of unfalsifiable dogmas like flood geology. We have reached the point where creationists are claiming that a recent global flood would be indistinguishable from an old Earth and no recent global flood. Comparing flood geology to forensic science helps to show why this is bankrupt idea.