What Would Falsify the Flood? (2)

[FredHoyle]

I think I've told you about FOUR TIMES now.

Literary genre helps us determine what we are reading. Read mythology for what it is. Read history for what it is. Read poetry as poetry and wisdom as wisdom.

Combine this acknowledgment of literary genre with higher criticism and what we know of natural history and you get a clearer picture of what actually transpired, and how to interpret the bible in a broader context.

So you decide what to believe and what not to believe and if some Christians want to call it the word of God that's up to them, for you it's all about your own judgement, you believe what you want to believe and call the rest myth.

I now see why there are about 30,000 different varieties of Christians knocking about,
all of which tells me that none of it is true and that you all only believe it because it makes you feel good.

 

[Sayre]

So you decide what to believe and what not to believe and if some Christians want to call it the word of God that's up to them, for you it's all about your own judgement, you believe what you want to believe and call the rest myth.

I now see why there are about 30,000 different varieties of Christians knocking about,
all of which tells me that none of it is true and that you all only believe it because it makes you feel good.

Uh... I said I take literary genre into account. Modern scholarship on the bible, when you cut out the fundamentalist loons, is fairly consistent about literary genre.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am what you might call a Christian-Muslim-Buddhist-Hindu, I believe some teachings of all those religions, not the miracles or the crazy parts of course just the good bits like 'love thy neighbour', so put me down as a believer of bits of them all, you know very well where I'm coming from don't you?

Wow!

How about we put you down as one who picks and chooses, while complaining that otherse pick and choose?

 

[FredHoyle]

Wow!

How about we put you down as one who picks and chooses, while complaining that otherse pick and choose?

I was joking....... they are all a crock, and all people pick and choose, it's the only way people are able to believe,
if they had no choice in what they believed and had to believe it all religions would have died years ago,
as it is people need only believe the first or last six words and a little bit in the middle and feel it's OK to call themselves believers, as I see it the only true believers are the people who shout about it in the street and the ones locked up,
they have seen the light and have been taken over completely by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Heissonear]

They are not mythological gods they are just myths, just like the flood story.

If there had been a WW flood the damage it caused would be visible ALL OVER THE EARTH,
if you believe in a WW flood you believe it because you want to and not because it actually happened,
just as there is no evidence for a God but you believe in a God anyway,
the same is true for Bigfoot the Yeti and a host of other unfounded myths that people all over the world CHOOSE to believe, the truth of it is of no concern to them because it's what they want to believe, they make up their own truth.

.

Hey Fred,

You do know that Naturalism and its subset Evolution are based on faith don't you?

If you say "no they are not" then you are exposed in your lack of knowing the fundamentals of Naturalism and think what you build thereon is all concrete. Sorry to to break the news, but you need to look at your foundation.

Now, about the Flood being a myth, who said so? I was raised by choice a Naturalist, and a formally educated geologist as a Naturalist. I know Paleontology and Stratigraphy, formally. It appears you take other people's word on subject matter. Yes, it is clear. Firsthand field geology you know not of - have no experience. You have taken other Naturalists "interpretations" of what has taken place on earth. I'm not new at this, but have made many "Naturalists" fumble to explain what in the field is right before them. There are many things on earth that does not fit uniformitarianism, and interpretations thereof.

Then the "missing God". Do you know God is in our midst, every moment of every day? Or are you blind to Him?


.

 

[AV1611VET]

as it is people need only believe the first or last six words and a little bit in the middle and feel it's OK to call themselves believers,

The first word of the Bible: IN.

The middle words of the Bible: THE LORD.

The last word in the Bible: AMEN.

The message of the Bible: IN THE LORD, AMEN!

QV also:

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Nineteen one-syllable words -- so easy a child can understand it; yet so hard, a scientist can't.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wow!

How about we put you down as one who picks and chooses, while complaining that otherse pick and choose?

How about complaining about hypocrites who deny picking and choosing?

 

[TLK Valentine]

The first word of the Bible: IN.

The middle words of the Bible: THE LORD.

The last word in the Bible: AMEN.

The message of the Bible: IN THE LORD, AMEN!

QV also:

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Nineteen one-syllable words -- so easy a child can understand it; yet so hard, a scientist can't.

Now, if only reality were composed of one-syllable words...

 

[PsychoSarah]

How about complaining about hypocrites who deny picking and choosing?

I find that taking quotes out of context is more annoying, because then you have to show them how little they know about the story from which they took their quotes. Takes a long time.

 

[Queller]

.

Hey Fred,

You do know that Naturalism and its subset Evolution are based on faith don't you?

If you say "no they are not" then you are exposed in your lack of knowing the fundamentals of Naturalism and think what you build thereon is all concrete. Sorry to to break the news, but you need to look at your foundation.

Now, about the Flood being a myth, who said so? I was raised by choice a Naturalist, and a formally educated geologist as a Naturalist. I know Paleontology and Stratigraphy, formally. It appears you take other people's word on subject matter. Yes, it is clear. Firsthand field geology you know not of - have no experience. You have taken other Naturalists "interpretations" of what has taken place on earth. I'm not new at this, but have made many "Naturalists" fumble to explain what in the field is right before them. There are many things on earth that does not fit uniformitarianism, and interpretations thereof.

Then the "missing God". Do you know God is in our midst, every moment of every day? Or are you blind to Him?

As a geologist with a knowledge of stratigraphy, what evidence would you expect to see left behind by a flood that covered the entire world?

 

[Queller]

Nothing can falsify the flood. Many indications are in the story that God Created the flood using supernatural powers. If supernatural powers were involved then it was not a "Natural" flood. Such a flood may have had any number of unusual properties. For example, there is no indication of any kind that there was any wind or even waves.

Considering how hard it is to fill a bathtub quickly without making waves, I don't understand how adding trillions of cubic meters of water to the earth in only 40 days could FAIL to created wind and waves. Can you explain?

A flood without wind or waves? That's unusual. The Ark could have been made from cement if there were no wind or waves.

An Ark made from cement would sink very quickly regardless of whether there were wind and waves or not.

SO we don't know exactly what effect the water had on the land. So we can't look for evidence if we don't know the conditions. Plus we don't know the year, except for old-monk-tales tossed about from place to place.

We certainly know what kind of effect floods have on land now, why would things have been different in the past?

 

[dad]

Newsflash Fred many Christians do not believe in a worldwide flood, and instead respect the Noahic flood for the myth that it is .

Christ was not among that group, of course. He believed in a flood that took all men away.

 

[dad]

Pretty much all of Genesis 1-11 is myth.

God created heaven and earth, no?

The rest of the OT I would say varies in it's representations of history... because it was written for spiritual content and not as a fact for fact portrayal of history.

Since the psalms and prophets all pointed to Jesus, obviously it was not about history, but History.

I would say it is a bunch of historical events, retold with spiritual emphasis, and glued together into an overarching narrative.

And God inspired THAT!!!????

 

[PsychoSarah]

Christ was not among that group, of course. He believed in a flood that took all men away.

Good for Christ, but he didn't have to question about faith. Or death for that matter. Would I allow myself to be crucified knowing that after I die, I will be in paradise? Absolutely. It really isn't much of a sacrifice. None of the fear, or mental anguish that most people feel when they know they will die. Christ was privileged, not punished.

 

[dad]

Good for Christ, but he didn't have to question about faith. Or death for that matter. Would I allow myself to be crucified knowing that after I die, I will be in paradise? Absolutely. It really isn't much of a sacrifice. None of the fear, or mental anguish that most people feel when they know they will die. Christ was privileged, not punished.

All believers know they will be in paradise when they die. Come on over to the privileged side!

The issue I addressed was that a christian claimed that a group of christians did not believe in the flood of Noah. I pointed out that Jesus did believe in it.

 

[FredHoyle]

An Ark made from cement would sink very quickly regardless of whether there were wind and waves or not.

Plenty of concrete boats have been built and if all it had to do was float there's no reason it couldn't be made of cement.

 

[PsychoSarah]

All believers know they will be in paradise when they die. Come on over to the privileged side!

The issue I addressed was that a christian claimed that a group of christians did not believe in the flood of Noah. I pointed out that Jesus did believe in it.

Jesus is a different case. How many Christians today can honestly say they directly communicate with god or angels? People don't get that benefit. If an angel appeared to me right now, I would have to be an idiot not to believe, because that is objective evidence for god. Jesus, if the bible is correct, is presented with objective evidence for god. We are not.

Knowing and believing are not the same thing, if you truly knew that people go to paradise when they die, people would celebrate funerals happily, people would cross their fingers for a cancer diagnosis, people would always welcome death. Yet believers and nonbelievers alike dread it. What is it that you fear, could it be, that creeping thought in the back of your mind, that it may not be true?

If paradise were obviously real, no one would cry for the dead, and dying for one's country in a war wouldn't be a sacrifice. Ultimately, life would have no value at all, because it would only be a small, insignificant part of an infinite existence.

 

[FredHoyle]

All believers know they will be in paradise when they die. Come on over to the privileged side!

Just because they believe it...............as far as the privileged side goes? too big a price to pay,
as for paradise, is it going to be full of creationists? if it is I think I'll pass.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Just because they believe it...............as far as the privileged side goes? too big a price to pay,
as for paradise, is it going to be full of creationists? if it is I think I'll pass.

If it is heaven, I am sure you can block their comments.

 

[dad]

Just because they believe it...............as far as the privileged side goes? too big a price to pay,
as for paradise, is it going to be full of creationists? if it is I think I'll pass.

Creationists been mean to ya?