What would Christians do if there were no bible?

[StormyOne]

Being of value is a whole lot different then being an authority on truth which is the way the SDA church describe EGW in the fundamental beliefs. I get value out of Dean Koontz writings but I don't see them as an authority on truth, big difference. By the way just read his book Life Expectancy it was a great book.

Yes it was a good book, much milder than some of his previous books....

 

[LightWorker1967]

Being of value is a whole lot different then being an authority on truth which is the way the SDA church describe EGW in the fundamental beliefs. I get value out of Dean Koontz writings but I don't see them as an authority on truth, big difference. By the way just read his book Life Expectancy it was a great book.

Agreed. And I'm suggesting there may be a position where she can be an "authority" and not be perfect!

I'll check out "Life Expectancy." Thanks for the reference.

 

[annie1speed]

Quote: And then, some people who consider Ellen White an inspired prophet also demand the "is it Bible-based" test for her ideas. As if Ellen White is not allowed to say something revolutionary that completely blows our previous understanding of the Bible away. Or allowed to be a prophet and make mistakes—get a lot of things right, take liberties with a few, or goof a few things up.

As I remember, many of our superstars in the Bible made mistakes much larger than the ones E.G. might have made.

If we continue to limit our unfoldment as Children of God in this way, using the Bible as a club, God's may take it back!

I don't think this amazing woman's life work has to make us feel comfortable, has to pass our plagiarism tests, has to be fully internally consistent, or has to be fully consistent with our personal interpretations of the Bible TO HAVE VALUE! End Quote

How do you reconcile this point of view with Deuteronomy 18:20 - 22? This doesn't have anything to do with 'personal interpretations of the Bible'. Once Ellen White's writings are found to contradict God's Word, which has been pointed out in this thread already, what else is there to say?

The prophets of the Bible were human and therefore certainly made mistakes in their lives, but not in their prophecies. Isn't it true that when God tells a prophet to say thus and such, he is powerless to change it? I refer you to Baalam in Numbers 23 verse 20: See, I received a command to bless; he has blessed, and I cannot revoke it.

Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12 That's better than a club any day.

God may take it back! ???? Take what back? and why?

 

[LightWorker1967]

Quote: And then, some people who consider Ellen White an inspired prophet also demand the "is it Bible-based" test for her ideas. As if Ellen White is not allowed to say something revolutionary that completely blows our previous understanding of the Bible away. Or allowed to be a prophet and make mistakes—get a lot of things right, take liberties with a few, or goof a few things up.

As I remember, many of our superstars in the Bible made mistakes much larger than the ones E.G. might have made.

If we continue to limit our unfoldment as Children of God in this way, using the Bible as a club, God's may take it back!

I don't think this amazing woman's life work has to make us feel comfortable, has to pass our plagiarism tests, has to be fully internally consistent, or has to be fully consistent with our personal interpretations of the Bible TO HAVE VALUE! End Quote

How do you reconcile this point of view with Deuteronomy 18:20 - 22? This doesn't have anything to do with 'personal interpretations of the Bible'. Once Ellen White's writings are found to contradict God's Word, which has been pointed out in this thread already, what else is there to say?

The prophets of the Bible were human and therefore certainly made mistakes in their lives, but not in their prophecies. Isn't it true that when God tells a prophet to say thus and such, he is powerless to change it? I refer you to Baalam in Numbers 23 verse 20: See, I received a command to bless; he has blessed, and I cannot revoke it.

Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12 That's better than a club any day.

God may take it back! ???? Take what back? and why?

I understand your perspective Annie – to some extent. I appreciate your right to hold it and share it.

And getting into a conversation that reduces my perspective into pieces/parts that are familiar to you, doesn't help you understand my perspective! It forces one thing into the frame-of-reference of a different thing.

I have reverence for Ellen White's work – I consider her inspired – and I think she made mistakes. This is my personal relationship with her – I do not wish to dissuade you away from your truth.

Blessings!

 

[freeindeed2]

Quote: And then, some people who consider Ellen White an inspired prophet also demand the "is it Bible-based" test for her ideas. As if Ellen White is not allowed to say something revolutionary that completely blows our previous understanding of the Bible away. Or allowed to be a prophet and make mistakes—get a lot of things right, take liberties with a few, or goof a few things up.

As I remember, many of our superstars in the Bible made mistakes much larger than the ones E.G. might have made.

If we continue to limit our unfoldment as Children of God in this way, using the Bible as a club, God's may take it back!

I don't think this amazing woman's life work has to make us feel comfortable, has to pass our plagiarism tests, has to be fully internally consistent, or has to be fully consistent with our personal interpretations of the Bible TO HAVE VALUE! End Quote

How do you reconcile this point of view with Deuteronomy 18:20 - 22? This doesn't have anything to do with 'personal interpretations of the Bible'. Once Ellen White's writings are found to contradict God's Word, which has been pointed out in this thread already, what else is there to say?

The prophets of the Bible were human and therefore certainly made mistakes in their lives, but not in their prophecies. Isn't it true that when God tells a prophet to say thus and such, he is powerless to change it? I refer you to Baalam in Numbers 23 verse 20: See, I received a command to bless; he has blessed, and I cannot revoke it.

Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12 That's better than a club any day.

God may take it back! ???? Take what back? and why?

Exactly the point. But some don't want to hear about it and their desire to believe in her is stronger than their desire to know the truth, or at the very least to be objective about what she actually did write.

 

[annie1speed]

Forgive me, Lightworker, I did not mean to offend. You absolutely have the right to your beliefs and I can respect that. I do wonder however what you meant by God will take it away. I'm not following you on that.

 

[LightWorker1967]

Forgive me, Lightworker, I did not mean to offend. You absolutely have the right to your beliefs and I can respect that. I do wonder however what you meant by God will take it away. I'm not following you on that.

Annie, you have offended me in no way! "God taking the Bible back" was to make the point that sometimes our obsession with finding texts in the Bible to support our position may get in the way of talking to God. So, God might have to take it back to get our attention! Said with humor – should have used a smiley face!

Your Bible is safe!

 

[sentipente]

Your Bible is safe!

Only because God did not "give" it anymore than He gave a text on how any of His natural laws work.

 

[mva1985]

Quote from Loveaboveall: How would you know if the spirit guiding you was of God or of the Devil? End Quote

I agree. We need something to measure our influences against. Today that measuring stick is the Bible. Without the Bible what do we have that will help us know what is true.

Our feelings are not a good guide. Paul persecuted Christians believing in his heart he was doing God's work.

Good point.

 

[sentipente]

Quote from Loveaboveall: How would you know if the spirit guiding you was of God or of the Devil? End Quote

I agree. We need something to measure our influences against. Today that measuring stick is the Bible. Without the Bible what do we have that will help us know what is true.

Our feelings are not a good guide. Paul persecuted Christians believing in his heart he was doing God's work.

Only 2 billion humans are Christians. Most humans do not read the Bible and many of them are more considerate of other humans than many Christians.

 

[LightWorker1967]

Good point.

Really? Say more . . .

 

[mva1985]

Really? Say more . . .

I just agree that our feelings are not the best guide and that we need to have a standard to use - the Bible.

Proverbs 3
"5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.
8 This will bring health to your body
and nourishment to your bones."

 

[mva1985]

Another good one:

1 Cor. 8:2
"And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know."

 

[Mankin]

It would be the Middle Ages all over again. Actually there might be more Christians because people would still convert other nations by force.

 

[Mankin]

It's much easier to be tricked by a priest's interpretation of the Bible when you don't have a Bible yourself. This was the case in the Middle Ages.

 

[freeindeed2]

Good point.

Hey mva. Since when has the leading of God living IN us been reduced to and/or equated to mere human feelings?

 

[sentipente]

It would be the Middle Ages all over again. Actually there might be more Christians because people would still convert other nations by force.

I think you are thinking about the Bible not being widely available.

 

[sentipente]

It's much easier to be tricked by a priest's interpretation of the Bible when you don't have a Bible yourself. This was the case in the Middle Ages.

The OP was about the Bible not being available at all. The priest would not have a Bible to interpret.

 

[mva1985]

Hey mva. Since when has the leading of God living IN us been reduced to and/or equated to mere human feelings?

If we do not have a standard to measure our thoughts and actions by what are we left with? Everything is relative?

I for one do believe that there are absolutes!

 

[LightWorker1967]

Hey mva. Since when has the leading of God living IN us been reduced to and/or equated to mere human feelings?

To build on your point Free – since when is the "leading of God" reduced to any of our vehicles – body, emotions, mind?

Spirit express through all of them. When they are in balance, Spirit expresses with more sophistication. A wider spectrum—so to speak.

My SDA education was extremely out-of-balance in the sense of being head-centric. I learned from some wonderful teachers later on in life how God's creative energy can move through our emotional bodies, if we develop them. When that happens, your emotions are a pristine center of intelligence. The Sufis understood this—the heart was the center of intelligence. Sound familiar from the New Testament?

I'm fairly certain Jesus wasn't head-centric!

When people find their feelings unreliable, it's often because they aren't very emotionally intelligent—so their perception of this "unreliability" is accurate. If the emotional body isn't functioning well, emotions tend to linger for a long time—often from an event where the person felt injured. Many people can have a difficult conversation and be affected for the entire day—or week! Or longer. And some emotionally sludgy people are carrying emotions around that did not originate in them—the emotions originated with someone else and leached across. (empathic)

In my experience, the most emotionally intelligent people don't appear emotional very often. When they express emotion, it's intense, quick, coherent, and clean. Almost as if their emotions had a translucent quality. Fast, blue light!

So, emotions are a wonderful way of experiencing truth. But for many people, not very reliable because their emotional body is not developed. That's OK – as long as you know it.

An even more challenging question is whether our spiritual vehicle is developed—or even if we have a sense of our spiritual anatomy.