What would change?

[ebia]

Do I have to put you down in the suicide column with ebia?

Did I say I would commit suicide?

 

[The Nihilist]

Did I say I would commit suicide?

No, but I decided you would. It was like the third post. It's cool, your family will understand.

 

[gwenmead]

Of course

Groovy, thanks.

Back when I was a Christian, I thought that if it were somehow determined that God did not exist, I would've been hit with a shockwave of meaninglessness and futility. I probably would've felt as if my religious and spiritual life had been a total waste, and I would've been angry about that. I was sure I would have spiraled into a deep despair. I wasn't really sure where I thought it might've ended up - suicide? Angry hedonism? I never quite got that far.

Turns out that it wasn't really as bad as I'd imagined though.

 

[Nathan45]

Name them, as in, actual statistics where they actually have 80-90% of people saying they believe there is no life force, there is no God, etc.

i certainly couldn't find a poll where that many said there was no life force at all. it depends on the wording of the question.

and after googling it, it depends hugely on question wording. So i'll retract.

There have been some polls showing exceptionally high rates of irreligion in norway, sweeden, etc, but i think they were cherry picked now that i google it and can't find them now.

here's a wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion

the polls on this wiki article dont' make sense to me and seem to contradict eachother?

 

[yguy]

Groovy, thanks.

Back when I was a Christian, I thought that if it were somehow determined that God did not exist, I would've been hit with a shockwave of meaninglessness and futility. I probably would've felt as if my religious and spiritual life had been a total waste, and I would've been angry about that. I was sure I would have spiraled into a deep despair. I wasn't really sure where I thought it might've ended up - suicide? Angry hedonism? I never quite got that far.

Turns out that it wasn't really as bad as I'd imagined though.

That your idea of a joke?

 

[The Nihilist]

That your idea of a joke?

No, she's right. It's really not as bad as you imagine. I had about four crappy days after it happened, but then I got over it.

 

[Nathan45]

anyway, responses like this make me really glad I was raised with no religion whatsoever.

 

[ebia]

No, but I decided you would. It was like the third post. It's cool, your family will understand.

If you say so

 

[Nathan45]

If you say so

So i responded to your "what if you found out there was no air" question, are you going to respond to the original post, now?

 

[Joachim]

i certainly couldn't find a poll where that many said there was no life force at all. it depends on the wording of the question.

and after googling it, it depends hugely on question wording. So i'll retract.

There have been some polls showing exceptionally high rates of irreligion in norway, sweeden, etc, but i think they were cherry picked now that i google it and can't find them now.

here's a wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion

the polls on this wiki article dont' make sense to me and seem to contradict eachother?

Sweden actually had a 76% combined in god or spirit/life force according the Eurobarometer. According to the wiki article, this professor named Zuckerman claims an atheism rate of 45-85%, but I just have to find that as suspect. Censuses are still the best way of doing statistics, the problem with the Czech statistics is that they had a large and broad category that covered everything, when rightfully speaking, seperate categories should have existed for agnostic and non-organized believer, because an atheist isn't the same thing as an agnostic. An agnostic is unsure about it, the atheist actually comes out and makes the concrete statement.


Honestly speaking, I don't think there is a country in the world where there is a true atheism rate of over 40%, even if they are highly secular. We actually don't know what an all atheist society would look like because we've never really had one. Most Soviet "atheists" simply kept the old beliefs and lied about it to get ahead. It is even conjectured that Stalin may have actually had a real conversion when he decided to tone down the persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church.

 

[gwenmead]

That your idea of a joke?

Nope. I'm quite serious. A god-free life is nothing remotely like the despair I'd imagined it would be.

 

[Nathan45]

Sweden actually had a 76% combined in god or spirit/life force according the Eurobarometer

to be honest, people who believe in a "spirit/life force" but not god, have more in common with atheists than religious people. As i said it depends on question wording.

 

[yguy]

No, she's right. It's really not as bad as you imagine. I had about four crappy days after it happened, but then I got over it.

You don't understand. The way she wrote that implies that this "discovery" isn't a hypothetical, when even within the scope of her own experience I guarantee you that whatever she discovered, it wasn't that God doesn't exist.

 

[ebia]

So i responded to your "what if you found out there was no air" question, are you going to respond to the original post, now?

See post 39

 

[Nathan45]

An agnostic is unsure about it, the atheist actually comes out and makes the concrete statement.

I think you have several misunderstandings, there's hardly any difference between the two, or among non-religious people in general. If you notice on these forums, there is hardly any disagreement between the atheist and agnostic posters.

i've called myself both atheist and agnostic at various times, and my beliefs then were not substantially different nor are they substantially different than they are now. Neither atheists nor agnostics nor deists believe that religion has any relevence, none are concerned about the afterlife. I would say the same for people who believe in a "life force" but arn't religious otherwise. The only differences are minor and philosophical.

 

[Nathan45]

See post 39

that's not really an answer.

I hope i'm not being a pest, as you don't have to answer the post if you don't want too, but is there some reason to reply if you don't feel like answering?

it's not a nonsense question, there are plenty of people who find atheism rational and true... whether it's true or not...

and the question is, if you suddenly found yourself among the people who do not believe in God, what would you change about your life?

 

[Nathan45]

You don't understand. The way she wrote that implies that this "discovery" isn't a hypothetical, when even within the scope of her own experience I guarantee you that whatever she discovered, it wasn't that God doesn't exist.

So i suppose she's not a true atheist?

if you want to make sense you should at least assert the old canard, "wasn't a true christian to begin with". You'd still be wrong but at least fairly rational.

 

[ebia]

that's not really an answer.

It's the best I can manage.

it's not a nonsense question, there are plenty of people who find atheism rational and true... whether it's true or not...

I've got students who think 0.18 is a larger number than 0.9 but I can't give a good answer to the question "what if they are right". (Not that I think atheism is at that level - it's an exagerated example to make the point clear).

and the question is, if you suddenly found yourself among the people who do not believe in God, what would you change about your life?

And I can only repeat that I can't see how that could be the case, anymore than I could picture myself suddenly among people who think air doesn't exist or people who think 0.18 is bigger than 0.9.

 

[IAmLegion.]

Would you kill yourself? Would you fornicate in the streets? Would you not really change anything?

Do you believe that society (a coherent group of people living together in emotional reciprocity) would exist without norms, rules, or laws?

 

[yguy]

So i suppose she's not a true atheist?

I have no idea, and that has nothing to do with it anyway.

if you want to make sense

I have made sense. That your strawman does not is hardly my problem.