What would a moderate christian standpoint on homosexuality look like?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Sin is what I think is wrong in my heart.
And not what you see as wrong.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

1 Samuel 16:7
For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

I cannot emphasize how completely and utterly wrong you are on this. There is so much scripture that says that the desires of heart is not to be trusted.

Sorry. All the epistles, are not Jesus.
Jesus always forgave and never judged or condemned.
Thank you!
See also - New Covenant

Not true. Jesus did a lot of judging but never condemned. Do you not recall Jesus flipping tables in the Temple and using words like "Woe unto you" and " You hypocrites! You brood of vipers!"? Jesus will do the condemning later (Revelation 19). Jesus is to be loved and feared. Speaking of which, what are your thoughts about the "Fear of the Lord"?

 

[JackRT]

You do realize that there is much scripture in the New Testament which forbids homosexuality? Do you consider the New Testament "obsolete" too?

Actually the Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that heterosexuals seem to need more supervision.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Jesus never pointed a finger at a sin and said "Sin!". Never.

No, but He did point it at the ground and wrote the sins down. John 8:6-9
But I guess we need to ignore the word of God, whether it be written in sand or on paper, and follow our hearts...right?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Actually the Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that heterosexuals seem to need more supervision.

I never said God doesn't love homosexuals. Rather, God doesn't love homosexuality. God loves the sinner, not the sin. Furthermore, God never once admonished someone for being heterosexual. He admonished heterosexual immorality and all homosexuality.

 

[RDKirk]

Sorry. All the epistles, are not Jesus.
Jesus always forgave and never judged or condemned.
Thank you!

See also - New Covenant

Unless your mind has been renewed to conform to the mind of Christ, your conscience is not a reliable indicator of sin.

Lots of people commit heinous acts with totally clear consciences.

 

[FireDragon76]

Here's an interesting example of a "purple church," a church that is trying to be moderate: Pastoring A Purple Church: 'I Absolutely Bite My Tongue Sometimes'

I read that article in more depth and it occurred to me alot of these sorts of issues are due to pastors trying to avoid many less difficult, but related, subjects previously.

 

[Jon Osterman]

So If I object to your relationship with your wife, and condemned it in your church or outlaw it, that's ok? You may not be a leader in your church? Is that ok by you for me to do that to you?

If my church condemned my relationship with my wife, I would leave that church and find one that was more aligned with what I beleive. I think you are acrediting churches with too much power here - they cannot "outlaw" your behaviour. They can only express their oposition and at worst expel you from their church.

If you feel a church is wrong in its teaching and you feel that people in your church are being oppressed by false teaching, why do you stay a member of that church?

 

[SkyWriting]

If my church condemned my relationship with my wife, I would leave that church and find one that was more aligned with what I beleive. I think you are acrediting churches with too much power here - they cannot "outlaw" your behaviour. They can only express their oposition and at worst expel you from their church.

If you feel a church is wrong in its teaching and you feel that people in your church are being oppressed by false teaching, why do you stay a member of that church?

Churches that don't follow the Golden Rule should be denied land to build on.
- President Theodore Woodstock

 

[SkyWriting]

If you feel a church is wrong in its teaching and you feel that people in your church are being oppressed by false teaching, why do you stay a member of that church?

Compassion for other people?
The possibility you are wrong?
Because they are family?
To help change the world?
Becasue they need your help?
Becasue you enjoy challenges?
Becasue you can learn from others?
Becasue diversity is healthy?

 

[dms1972]

As to whether unbelievers have a "right" to sin, I'd say as a practical matter that God has certainly given them unfettered ability to sin

We have to remember God in various ways restrains evil in the world, so unbelievers don't have unfettered ability to sin. But if laws are changed so that human laws no longer reflect God's law, then that would result in restraints gradually being removed.

How Does The Holy Spirit Restrain Evil In The World?

Sin, Society And The Restraining Of Evil

 

[RDKirk]

We have to remember God in various ways restrains evil in the world, so unbelievers don't have unfettered ability to sin. But if laws are changed so that human laws no longer reflect God's law, then that would result in restraints gradually being removed.

How Does The Holy Spirit Restrain Evil In The World?

Sin, Society And The Restraining Of Evil

Your first link makes this conclusion:

In other words, the Holy Spirit is in the world convicting the world that some things are clearly sin, and by doing so, He restrains evil from being worse than it already is.

I don't think his conclusion follows from his premise.

Yes, the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, but that does not mean the world is incapable of ignoring that conviction (which Romans 1 assures us that it does) and being as evil as it can be anyway.

And clearly, the world is more evil than we who heed the Holy Spirit's conviction can find comfort in.

We can say blithely, "The world is not as evil as it could be," but that means nothing in the face of the heaped bodies of millions killed by Pol Pot.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. I want to avoid the extremes if that is possible. So I would not argue against a form of civil partnership for non-christians, but disagree with same sex marriage. I would argue that Christians who wish to have prayer for wholeness including overcoming homosexual desires should be allowed to seek that out and psychotherapy too if they want, but that those who don't want to travel that road celibacy should be encouraged. No one should be forced to go for therapy, either secular or religious. I don't agree with practicing homosexuals being leaders in the church, or the blessing of same-sex relationships. Homosexuals seeking to live celebate lives should not be refused communion. Forgiveness and grace should be extended when people fail.

Does this avoid extremes of both the liberal and conservative sorts?

Communion taken in a fallen state will result in being cursed by God. Churches refuse to give communion to those who are not saved for their own safety not to exclude them from the congregation.

“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.”
‭‭1 CORINTHIANS‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[JackRT]

President Theodore Woodstock

President of what?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We have to remember God in various ways restrains evil in the world, so unbelievers don't have unfettered ability to sin. But if laws are changed so that human laws no longer reflect God's law, then that would result in restraints gradually being removed....

It seems to me today there is almost no restraint upon the wickedness of men anywhere.
Not by law, nor by custom, nor by the Creator, nor by His Word.

In many areas , all over the world, and on the internet, unbelievers have much more activity than believers do, and often with few if any restrictions.

IN fact, it seems to be unbelievers and harmful things (by corporations, governments, etc) are PROTECTED by federal law, state law, and city law, and in many other countries by all the laws.

 

[dms1972]

Not by law, nor by custom, nor by the Creator, nor by His Word.

It seems to me today there is almost no restraint upon the wickedness of men anywhere.
Not by law, nor by custom, nor by the Creator, nor by His Word.

You seem to be more or less saying, God is no longer at work not even through the Gospel. I think that is untrue, but we should pray also that our societies are not given over to lawlessness, pray for the police and prison services, courts, etc.

http://www.cpauk.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/One-Hour-Prayer-Guide3.pdf

We have only very limited knowledge within our own walks of life. But we can know there are laws in every country against murder, theft, arson, and lots of other sorts of criminal behaviour. People who commit crimes are being brought before courts all the time, many are then sentenced. Some will be put behind bars for a time. Some of those will reform to some extent, others may not, and may make a lifestyle of petty crime and be in and out of jail all their life, nevertheless for some of that time they will be kept from harming others, and there are crimes they won't attempt.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You seem to be more or less saying, God is no longer at work not even through the Gospel. I think that is untrue, but we should pray also that our societies are not given over to lawlessness.

No. That is a total mis-representation of what I am saying.

It is too late for "societies" - they were never Godly , not even in the first century.

We can only do as Scripture says: pray that we might live in or have peace as much as possible, by God's Sovereignty in spite of governments like the ancient idolatrous Romans and Egyptians and Phoenecians and so forth .....

The Gospel was NOT SENT TO SAVE SOCIETY, no, never, not ever.

 

[mark kennedy]

Churches that don't follow the Golden Rule should be denied land to build on.
- President Theodore Woodstock

Do you mean Roosevelt?

 

[dms1972]

No. That is a total mis-representation of what I am saying.

Ok, sorry if I misunderstood. But there are restraints in law and deterents. They may not deter everyone, but they do deter some.

 

[dms1972]

The Gospel was NOT SENT TO SAVE SOCIETY, no, never, not ever.

I don't think I was saying that, but thanks for making it clear, nevertheless God uses those whom he saves, and they in turn are to be salt and light in society. Right?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think I was saying that, but thanks for making it clear, nevertheless God uses those whom he saves, and they in turn are to be salt and light in society. Right?

LIGHT as in JESUS , in a world of darkness (that STAYS a world of darkness UNTIL JESUS RETURNS)