What will/would you teach your kids...

[armed2010]

Is that ALL you have to offer to the conversation?? Boy, that was a great help for absolutely neither side and a waste of everybody's time! No, I do not need anger management, but when someone wishes ill upon me, darn right I am going to speak up! And you haven't even seen me angry yet armed! I am actually pretty calm now, except for maybe that one comment there, which was completely justified. When someone actually wishes that God won't bless me with children, they have shot me. So I will say something back.

Look up a few posts, I asked a question. And everyone has the right to get angry, but you were insulted by someone over the internet. Atleast im able to compose myself and not get horribly angry at such an action.

 

[The Bellman]

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

I did not say this, and a careful re-reading of my post will show you that.

Yes, you did. You said: "...not all children are going to have sex. Only those who, whether we like to admit it or not, are not taught to stay away from it and are taught about MARRIAGE, rather than sex." That is plainly ridiculous and false.

It isn't the same logic. I will teach my children that there are drugs out there, just as I will teach them that there is pre-marital sex out there. But I am not going to encourage either nor will I tell them how to do either. I WILL tell them how to get out of the situations, why they are displeasing to God, and why they are harmful, etc.

It's not a question of telling them how to do either. They don't need you to tell them HOW to have pre-marital sex. They need you to do what a parent should do - tell them how to protect themselves IF they decide to take a certain course (whether or not you think that course is a good one).

Doesn't have to make sense to you. I am referring to my children, and it makes sense to me, so that's all that matters.

No, all that matters is how it affects those children.

What it boils down to is "I am not going to tell my kids HOW to disobey me (and not even me, but rather the Lord)".

As above, they don't need you to tell them HOW to have pre-marital sex. They need you to do a parent's job and teach them how to protect themselves.

And no, it's obeying YOU. If it were obeying the lord, you'd let the lord tell them.

My kids will be raised IN the world but not OF it. The will be raised in a community which does not conform to the immorality running amok on our globe!

And then they'll join the community which IS the world...and you will have left them with no knowledge of how to exist in it.

That is a typical statement I would expect from people like you. When in reality when these things were taught to all children, the world was a MUCH better place to live in!

Yup. People like me, who care more for children than for forcing our own religious beliefs on them.

My children are not going to be harmed nor are the going to be deprived of anything. Believe it or not, it IS possible for us religious people to live happily ever after as well!

Yes, they are. They are going to be deprived of the tools that any parent should give them - how to protect themselves.

My kids are not going to be educated by the "state" (or rather, province, here in Canada.) They WILL be homeschooled, and if it is outlawed, then we will be moving. My kids will not be going to public school no matter what.

More evidence that you are less concerned about them than you are about forcing your own beliefs on them.

My kids are not going to suffer! I am not going to be mean to them. They will grow up in a loving caring home with a strong foundation. And I do think there is proof out there that shows that these kids are the happiest.

Yes, they are, as you have amply shown.

DO NOT WISH ILL TOWARDS ME AGAIN!!! If you EVER think about saying anything as cruel, mean and heartless as that, do not even bother responding to me EVER again!!! And don't even add "no offense" because it is clear that offense was entirely intended! DO NOT WISH BAD THINGS UPON ME!

I have not done so. I do not consider what I said to be cruel, mean, or heartless. No offense was intended, nor is what I said a "bad thing". I find your approach likely to be harmful to children; I therefore hope you are not in a position to harm those children. If you do not like people telling you they find your approach bad, I suggest you don't enter forums based around how children should be raised.

 

[Grace_of_God]

but you were insulted by someone over the internet.

Yes I was, and YOU still have no right to interfere.

Atleast im able to compose myself and not get horribly angry at such an action.

And I could have gotten much angrier. Believe me, you are not a better person just because you may not get upset when someone wishes ill towards you. To me, a person is a person. Doesn't matter if they are in front of my face or across the globe. And when a person wishes such terrible, mean things of me, then yes, I am going to be bothered by it. And not to mention, I have seen you get pretty nasty before, so you really can't point the finger at me.

 

[The Bellman]

Please don't speak of that which you know nothing about.

I am speaking only of what you have told us.

I am going to teach them to swim in a different way than you will. They will learn how to swim because it is okay to go into the pool when I am around, not just because they MIGHT fall in. And they will learn what they need to know about sex because it will be okay for them to do so once they are married. They will not learn just because they MIGHT decide to sleep around. I will teach my kids things for the right reasons, not so that I can teach them how to disobey in the future!

No, you're going to teach them they don't need to know how to swim. If they never go in the pool, they don't need to know how to swim. So, if one day they DO happen to go into the pool, they'll drown.

I'm not sure you quite understand this analogy. The pool isn't sex, it's pre-marital sex. You teach them they don't go in the pool - so, therefore, you don't need to teach them how to swim (ie., protect themselves during sex). Then, if they DO happen to go into the pool (ie., have pre-marital sex) they cannot protect themselves.

Bottom line, no matter WHAT religious or moral values you (or anyone else) teach their children, there is always a chance (and not exactly a very small chance, either) that they will act in a way counter to those values. You are saying "If you act counter to the values I have attempted to instill in you...bad luck. That's your own fault. Any harm you come to is your own fault." Whereas you COULD be saying "If you act counter to the values I have attempted to instill in you...do this and this. At least then you won't come to harm."

I find this attitude reprehensible and harmful.

You are truly ignorant! Until you are even willing to at least hear me out, to UNDERSTAND what I am trying to say, don't bother talking to me.

I, and many others in this thread, have heard you out and have and do understood what you are trying to say.

 

[The Bellman]

Is that ALL you have to offer to the conversation?? Boy, that was a great help for absolutely neither side and a waste of everybody's time! No, I do not need anger management, but when someone wishes ill upon me, darn right I am going to speak up! And you haven't even seen me angry yet armed! I am actually pretty calm now, except for maybe that one comment there, which was completely justified. When someone actually wishes that God won't bless me with children, they have shot me. So I will say something back.

And I could have gotten much angrier. Believe me, you are not a better person just because you may not get upset when someone wishes ill towards you. To me, a person is a person. Doesn't matter if they are in front of my face or across the globe. And when a person wishes such terrible, mean things of me, then yes, I am going to be bothered by it. And not to mention, I have seen you get pretty nasty before, so you really can't point the finger at me.

I have at no stage "wished ill upon you", or "shot you", or said "terrible, mean things of you". I find your intended behaviour toward your children harmful; I consequently hope you are never in the position to perform that behaviour. As I said, if you don't like having your intended behaviour toward children criticised, don't post in this thread.

 

[Grace_of_God]

Yes, it does.

No it doesn't. This could go on forever.

Yes, you did. You said: "...not all children are going to have sex. Only those who, whether we like to admit it or not, are not taught to stay away from it and are taught about MARRIAGE, rather than sex."

You have not quoted me completely. Until you can do so, you prove absolutely nothing nor offer anything of value to that particular discussion.

They need you to do what a parent should do - tell them how to protect themselves IF they decide to take a certain course.

I don't believe in birth control, I don't believe in sleeping around, I don't believe in pre-marital sex. Therefore my kids will learn about them, they will just learn what is wrong with all of it. Kind of how I learned about certain things, and I turned out fine.

No, all that matters is how it affects those children.

My children will be happy and well taken care of children. That is what matters. The way I choose to raise them is none of your business.

no, it's obeying YOU. If it were obeying the lord, you'd let the lord tell them.

And that is exactly who will be telling them. I will show them where in the Bible God tells us this. It will not be my demands, it will be God's. His are more important than mine and I will teach my children that as well. They are going to be raised to be servants of the Lord.

And then they'll join the community which IS the world

Actually it is a fact that those who are raised religiously and taught NOT to conform to the world, will not. Some do yes, but the vast majority stay where they were raised. It is only those who were raised OF the world (even if they were raised with a religion) that tend to rebel.

and you will have left them with no knowledge of how to exist in it.

My children will have the knowledge they need.

Yup. People like me, who care more for children than for forcing our own religious beliefs on them.

I am not forcing my own religious beliefs on them. I am guiding them in the light of the truth. Your opinion, no matter how much you fight me over it, will not change my beliefs of the Lord. And I care for children to a great extent which is why I WILL have a large family (adopted if I cannot have my own). I love children and I will do the best I can to make sure they are raised properly.

Yes, they are.

No they aren't.

They are going to be deprived of the tools that any parent should give them - how to protect themselves.

I will give them everything I need. They do not need to know how to disobey the Lord so they will not have that. As I said, they will learn about sex, but they will learn about proper sex.

More evidence that you are less concerned about them than you are about forcing your own beliefs on them.

No, it's evidence that I don't want people like YOU forcing YOUR beliefs on MY children. I would rather raise my children the way *I* see fit.

Yes, they are, as you have amply shown.

No they aren't. And you have failed to prove that they were.

I have not done so.

Yes you most certainly have.

I do not consider what I said to be cruel, mean, or heartless.

But it was mean, and cruel and heartless.

No offense was intended

Well offense was given anyway.

nor is what I said a "bad thing".

It was a mean thing to say. Something that, even if I hated the way in which you raised your children (and it appears I am not too fond of it), I would still not wish that you would be physically unable to have children your entire life.

I find your approach likely to be harmful to children

Uh huh, and I don't. I find my approach to be the most effective. Just because you disagree with it, doesn't mean my children are going to be miserable or harmed in any way.

I therefore hope you are not in a position to harm those children.

I repeat: DO NOT WISH ILL TOWARDS ME. You don't have to agree with me but could you attempt to show the LEAST bit of respect?? If all you can do is hope that I am physically unhealthy to be able to have children, do not even SPEAK TO ME please. I am almost certain that this discussion doesn't exist to wish evil things toward people. So please don't. I didn't do that to you, and whether or not you see it as offensive, take my word for it, that is how it is being taken!

If you do not like people telling you they find your approach bad, I suggest you don't enter forums based around how children should be raised.

THEY ASKED FOR OUR OPINION ON A TOPIC. I GAVE MY OPINION. YOU FOUND THE NEED TO ATTACK ME, BELITTLE ME, AND WISH ILL TOWARDS ME BECAUSE OF AN OPINION. AN OPINION THAT ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE. SO IF ALL YOU HAVE TO OFFER TO ME IS ILL THOUGHTS, THEN YOU CAN LEAVE ME ALONE AND I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THE SAME COURTEOSY.

 

[Grace_of_God]

I am speaking only of what you have told us.

You are coming to your own assumptions. Not actually trying to hear out what I am attempting to say.

No, you're going to teach them they don't need to know how to swim.

Here you go again. Pointing your finger as it seems to be so easy for you to do. I will teach them how to swim, they just might be doing the front stroke, while your kids are doing the back stroke. ie. They are going to learn to swim, it just isn't going to be taught the same way as your kids are.

I'm not sure you quite understand this analogy. The pool isn't sex, it's pre-marital sex.

Yes, believe it or not I am brighter than you are giving me credit for, and I didn't need you or anyone else to explain the analogy out to me! I got it the first time around!

You teach them they don't go in the pool - so, therefore, you don't need to teach them how to swim (ie., protect themselves during sex). Then, if they DO happen to go into the pool (ie., have pre-marital sex) they cannot protect themselves.

My kids will learn about pre-marital sex--they will learn why it is bad and displeasing to the Lord.

You are saying "If you act counter to the values I have attempted to instill in you...bad luck. That's your own fault. Any harm you come to is your own fault."

No, this is just what you get out of it. No matter how I try and explain my stance, you will never pay attention to me anyone. You think your assumption of me is correct, even though it is wrong.

Whereas you COULD be saying "If you act counter to the values I have attempted to instill in you...do this and this. At least then you won't come to harm."

Yes, I COULD say this. But since I disagree completely with it, then I won't. I will say however "this and this exists for those who have sex out of wedlock, and these things are wrong because...."

I find this attitude reprehensible and harmful.

I don't. So you are just going to have to accept the fact that I have the right to raise my kids as I see fit, while you have the right to raise yours as you see fit. End of discussion.

I, and many others in this thread, have heard you out and have and do understood what you are trying to say.

It really doesn't seem like you do understand what I am saying since you are constantly mis-quoting and mis-representing my stance on things. Keep thinking that though, I really give up. My opinion remains the same. The question was asked for an opinion, and I gave it. Your opinion differs from mine and you are entitled to it. I am entitled to mine as well and WILL stand by it ALWAYS. Nothing you say, and nothing the others say is going to change my view of my own children. Regardless at your attempts to belittle my own job of being a mother, I am not going to be a bad mother, nor will my kids be harmed or unhappy. If you don't like my parenting methods, then it is very simple: don't use them. Other than that, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Grace_of_God]

I have at no stage "wished ill upon you", or "shot you", or said "terrible, mean things of you".

YES YOU HAVE. WHETHER INTENDED OR NOT you continued to do it and that is how it was taken.

I consequently hope you are never in the position to perform that behaviour.

STOP IT. If you are going to argue, at least have the courteosy to do it without trying to hit below the belt! Stop wishing ill toward me and stop saying that I am harmful to children. It is just as bad as the person who once called me a child molester because I didn't agree with them. STOP speaking with me if you can't debate nicely!

If don't like having your intended behaviour toward children criticised, don't post in this thread.

IT ASKED FOR AN OPINION. AND SO AN OPINION IS WHAT I GAVE. IT DID NOT ASK FOR "THE BELLMAN'S OPINION" BUT THAT OF EVERYBODY. I GAVE WHAT WAS ASKED FOR AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SAID TO ME WHICH, WHETHER YOU MEANT IT OR NOT *WERE* OFFENSIVE.

 

[ravenwolf]

I WILL be teaching them, only in a different way you may choose to do so with your children. Safe sex is in marriage. I will teach them about marriage (and everything that comes with marriage. I will NOT teach them to disobey the Lord. If your method works with your kids, go for it. But I am also going to be raising my own children as I see fit.

yes, but the point is...what if they dont wait until marriage..then what? That is the point...you cannot garuntee whether or not they will obey or disobey you.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[armed2010]

And not to mention, I have seen you get pretty nasty before, so you really can't point the finger at me.

LOL, if you can point to a post where I was nasty to the point you were, with large capitalizations and the general appearance of sounding like an angry old lady screaming at tech support because her computer wont turn on after she mashed a screwdriver into the floppy disk drive, I will give you all my blessings from now on and into in the future. Note: Blatant sarcasm does not = [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY

 

[armed2010]

YES YOU HAVE. WHETHER INTENDED OR NOT you continued to do it and that is how it was taken.

STOP IT. If you are going to argue, at least have the courteosy to do it without trying to hit below the belt! Stop wishing ill toward me and stop saying that I am harmful to children. It is just as bad as the person who once called me a child molester because I didn't agree with them. STOP speaking with me if you can't debate nicely!

IT ASKED FOR AN OPINION. AND SO AN OPINION IS WHAT I GAVE. IT DID NOT ASK FOR "THE BELLMAN'S OPINION" BUT THAT OF EVERYBODY. I GAVE WHAT WAS ASKED FOR AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SAID TO ME WHICH, WHETHER YOU MEANT IT OR NOT *WERE* OFFENSIVE.

Once again, your blowing your stack over something insignificant.

 

[alexeeah]

WHOA I think we need to cool this list off a little guys!! I think the original topic was what would you teach your children about sex ed and when right??? well My daughter is six right now and we have already started teaching her In fact we had two home births and she was there watching the whole time during the birthing process as well as my now 4 year old boy too. He doesn't know about the sex part but she does and while it is my belief that we wait til marriage that is what I teach.

 

[ravenwolf]

yeah, it was gettin' pretty toasty in here....

 

[Mother Vashti]

...about sex and all it's aspects?

No dating, until after you're married

 

[armed2010]

 

[ravenwolf]

Lol!! Hilarious!!!!

 

[alexeeah]

No dating, until after you're married

that is totally hillarious where do you come up with them????lol

 

[Mother Vashti]

 

[armed2010]

 

[The Bellman]

You have not quoted me completely. Until you can do so, you prove absolutely nothing nor offer anything of value to that particular discussion.

I quoted what you said. If you don't like what you said, you shouldn't have said it.

I don't believe in birth control, I don't believe in sleeping around, I don't believe in pre-marital sex. Therefore my kids will learn about them, they will just learn what is wrong with all of it. Kind of how I learned about certain things, and I turned out fine.

A responsible parent teaches their child more about pre-marital sex than "don't do it!"

My children will be happy and well taken care of children. That is what matters. The way I choose to raise them is none of your business.

It is your opinion your children will be happy and well taken care of. Based on what you have said in this thread, I disagree.

My children will have the knowledge they need.

Again, your opinon. Based on what you have said in this thread, I disagree.

I am not forcing my own religious beliefs on them. I am guiding them in the light of the truth. Your opinion, no matter how much you fight me over it, will not change my beliefs of the Lord. And I care for children to a great extent which is why I WILL have a large family (adopted if I cannot have my own). I love children and I will do the best I can to make sure they are raised properly.

Of course you are forcing your own religious beliefs on them. You have admitted you will not teach them safe sex practices because those are only needed in circumstances that YOU think they shouldn't do.

I will give them everything I need. They do not need to know how to disobey the Lord so they will not have that. As I said, they will learn about sex, but they will learn about proper sex.

No, they will not. They will NOT learn about safe sex practices, as they should.

No, it's evidence that I don't want people like YOU forcing YOUR beliefs on MY children. I would rather raise my children the way *I* see fit.

Yes, you would rather force your beliefs on them than give them knowledge to allow them to choose for themselves. And in doing so, you put them in danger.

But it was mean, and cruel and heartless.Well offense was given anyway.

No, it was neither mean, cruel, nor heartless. And offense wasn't "given" - you chose to take it. That is your problem, not mine.

It was a mean thing to say. Something that, even if I hated the way in which you raised your children (and it appears I am not too fond of it), I would still not wish that you would be physically unable to have children your entire life.

It was not a mean thing to say. From the way you plan to raise your children, I consider that you would endanger them and not raise them well. As such, it would be cruel of me to wish that you had them. I do not; I hope you have no children ever in your care, for their sake.

Uh huh, and I don't. I find my approach to be the most effective. Just because you disagree with it, doesn't mean my children are going to be miserable or harmed in any way.

My disagreement is irrelevant. Children are harmed by harmful practices, whether I agree with those practices or not.

I repeat: DO NOT WISH ILL TOWARDS ME. You don't have to agree with me but could you attempt to show the LEAST bit of respect?? If all you can do is hope that I am physically unhealthy to be able to have children, do not even SPEAK TO ME please. I am almost certain that this discussion doesn't exist to wish evil things toward people. So please don't. I didn't do that to you, and whether or not you see it as offensive, take my word for it, that is how it is being taken!

I have not wished ill toward you. I have stated, and reiterate, that because I find your practices to be harmful to children, I hope you never have children in your care. If you don't like that, fine. The world is full of people who disagree.

If you take it ias offensive, as I said, that is your problem, not mine, particularly as I have repeatedly stated it was not intended as such.

THEY ASKED FOR OUR OPINION ON A TOPIC. I GAVE MY OPINION. YOU FOUND THE NEED TO ATTACK ME, BELITTLE ME, AND WISH ILL TOWARDS ME BECAUSE OF AN OPINION. AN OPINION THAT ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE. SO IF ALL YOU HAVE TO OFFER TO ME IS ILL THOUGHTS, THEN YOU CAN LEAVE ME ALONE AND I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THE SAME COURTEOSY.

I have neither attacked you, belittled you, or wished you ill. I have stated MY opinion. Or are you the only one allowed to give their opinion?

Here you go again. Pointing your finger as it seems to be so easy for you to do. I will teach them how to swim, they just might be doing the front stroke, while your kids are doing the back stroke. ie. They are going to learn to swim, it just isn't going to be taught the same way as your kids are.

No, they will not. Apparently you still don't understand the analogy. By it, you will not teach your children to swim at all, on the basis that they will never need to do so. Again, the pool in the analogy is not sex, it is pre-marital sex.

Yes, believe it or not I am brighter than you are giving me credit for, and I didn't need you or anyone else to explain the analogy out to me! I got it the first time around!

Apparently you do, because you keep demonstrating you don't understand it.

My kids will learn about pre-marital sex--they will learn why it is bad and displeasing to the Lord.

No, they won't. They will learn it's BAD! - nothing more.

No, this is just what you get out of it. No matter how I try and explain my stance, you will never pay attention to me anyone. You think your assumption of me is correct, even though it is wrong.

You have made your stance very clear. You are upset that I (and some others) think your stance is harmful to children.

I don't. So you are just going to have to accept the fact that I have the right to raise my kids as I see fit, while you have the right to raise yours as you see fit. End of discussion.

No, not the end of the discussion, as you can see. Not everybody has the right to raise their kids as they see fit. If it is apparent that "as they see fit" is harmful to those children, the government can and does prevent them from doing that. This is a case where I believe that you should NOT have the right to raise your children as you see fit. That you do have that right under the law is correct; that you should not have is my opinion.

It really doesn't seem like you do understand what I am saying since you are constantly mis-quoting and mis-representing my stance on things. Keep thinking that though, I really give up. My opinion remains the same. The question was asked for an opinion, and I gave it. Your opinion differs from mine and you are entitled to it. I am entitled to mine as well and WILL stand by it ALWAYS. Nothing you say, and nothing the others say is going to change my view of my own children. Regardless at your attempts to belittle my own job of being a mother, I am not going to be a bad mother, nor will my kids be harmed or unhappy. If you don't like my parenting methods, then it is very simple: don't use them. Other than that, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

You keep alleging that I am mis-representing you, but you cannot demonstrate where. Your position is clear; I have neither mis-represented it nor tried to.

YES YOU HAVE. WHETHER INTENDED OR NOT you continued to do it and that is how it was taken.

Then that is YOUR problem.

STOP IT. If you are going to argue, at least have the courteosy to do it without trying to hit below the belt! Stop wishing ill toward me and stop saying that I am harmful to children. It is just as bad as the person who once called me a child molester because I didn't agree with them. STOP speaking with me if you can't debate nicely!

I have at no stage "hit below the belt". I have given MY opinion, which it appears I"m not allowed to have. My opinion is that as a parent, you would be harmful to your children to the extent discussed above. If you don't like that, then deal with it. Don't tell me to stop voicing my opinion.

IT ASKED FOR AN OPINION. AND SO AN OPINION IS WHAT I GAVE. IT DID NOT ASK FOR "THE BELLMAN'S OPINION" BUT THAT OF EVERYBODY. I GAVE WHAT WAS ASKED FOR AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SAID TO ME WHICH, WHETHER YOU MEANT IT OR NOT *WERE* OFFENSIVE.

You didn't ask for my opinion? Tough luck. You got it anyway. That's because this is a FORUM, where everybody can give their opinion. You gave yours, I gave mine. If you don't like mine, tough...I sure don't like yours, but I'm not whining about your giving it.