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Are members of the GLBT community going against God even if they're devout christians

  • Yes, if they were christians they wouldn't be 'gay'

  • No, god loves all his children, red or yellow, black or white

  • It dosen't matter.

  • No opinion.


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fallenphantomangel

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I don't get why christians get in such a roar over the GLBT community. I understand that some of their ways are a little odd to you, but christianity is supposed to be a 'tolerent' religion. All they want to do is live their lives in a way that makes them happy, what's so wrong with that? My mother is a lesbian and I've never seen her happier then when she's with her wife. My best friend is also a lesbian, I'm closer with her then I am anyone on the planet. They're not 'sick', their happy because they know what they want from life and arent' afraid to take it. My mom goes to church regularly, god dosen't hate her because she chooses to love a woman. It'd be like saying god dosen't love someone because of the color of their skin.

I'm Bi myself and I see nothing wrong with it.
 
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savedandhappy1

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fallenphantomangel said:
I don't get why christians get in such a roar over the GLBT community.

Why do Christians defend the faith??? Because we are to always be ready to defend it, and if we are to be ready then we are also supposed to do it.


1 Peter 3:15
15 “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear” NKJV


We are to: “always be ready to give a defense.” The Greek word there is the word “apologia," which simply means: “to give reason or a defense”. It is from this Greek word that that we get our English word “apologetics.” To be skilled in apologetics is to be able to give a defense of the Christian faith to someone who asks, or to someone who challenges your beliefs.


Some well-intentioned Christians say, “We just need to preach the gospel, and trust the Holy Spirit. The Word of God doesn’t need to be defended. It’s alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword!”

The Bible does tell us to preach the Gospel. The Word of God is alive and powerful, and we recognize that the Holy Spirit is necessary for conversion. So I agree for the most part, but the Bible also tells us to engage in defending the faith.
We saw that in the scripture listed above, and that isn't the only place that we are instructed this way.

Jude v. 3
3 “Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.”


So who was Jude writing to here? Was this a letter to the senior pastors in Antioch, or Jerusalem? No. Was it a letter to some sort of super intellectual theologians? No.

When we look at the first verse in Jude we see:

Jude 1
1 "Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ..." NKJV


Jude was written to the church at large. It was written for you and me. The Bible here exhorts us, as believers, “to contend earnestly for the faith.” The word “contend”, that we see in verse 3 means “to fight.”

That word “earnestly” means... “seriously or intensely”

Isn't God saying that it is the responsibility of the whole church to put up a strong, intense fight for the Christian faith.?

Now lets look at verse 4, and we will see why we must contend for the faith.

Jude 4
4“For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.” NKJV


OK, so we see that the faith of the people in the church was being undermined by the false teachings of deceitful, ungodly men. So Jude's message to the church was, “Don’t just sit there! Contend earnestly for the faith!!!”

God doesn't want us to sit idly by as the Christian faith is attacked, and undermined by critics of the faith.



God desires that we tackle the challenges and objections that skeptics and critics of Christianity have, and tear them down.

What does it mean to “Tear them down?” Well it doesn't mean to tear down the person, but the ideas, the lies, the misinformation, etc.



2 Corinthians 10:4-6
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. NKJV

God told Jeremiah in…

Jeremiah 1:9-10
9 Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD
said to me: “ Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.
10 See, I have this day set you over the nations and over the kingdoms,
To root out and to pull down,
To destroy and to throw down,
To build and to plant.”
NKJV

Our primary task is to preach the gospel and to make disciples, but sometimes before a person receives the Gospel we have preached, we must first demolish the lies and misconceptions about the Christian faith.

As God used Jeremiah, so too He wants to use us for the rooting out, pulling down (not of people) BUT of the ideas, the philosophies, the lies that keep a person from truly knowing God. So, yes, we preach the Gospel, but we also are to be ready to defend the truth and attack error.

Here are some examples of people who gave “reasons,” or an apologia, “defense” of the Christian faith.



Philippians 1:3-7
3 “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy,
5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now,
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.” NKJV


Paul realized that he was not only called to preach the gospel, but there was a responsibility to defend the truth of that message as well.



Philippians 1:16-17
16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains;
17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. NKJV


Acts 19:8-9
8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.
9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. NKJV


Again, we see Paul, not only proclaiming the Gospel, but he sought to “reason” with people, and “persuade” them to believe.




John 2:18-22
18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said. NKJV

In other words, Jesus said ‘This will be a sign to you, an evidence, a reason, why you should accept my word as authoritative –My resurrection from the dead.”

He didn’t just call upon believers to believe the Gospel.

He offered evidence and signs that confirmed that the Gospel was actually true.
 
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fallenphantomangel

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fallenphantomangel said:
I don't get why christians get in such a roar over the GLBT community.

Why do Christians defend the faith??? Because we are to always be ready to defend it, and if we are to be ready then we are also supposed to do it.


.



Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................yeah....you tottaly missed my point....:confused:
 
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savedandhappy1

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What does any of that have to do with you trampling on the secular rights of homosexuals?


Whose trampling?

Did the people in the bible have rules for the righteous and a separate set for the unrighteous?

Show me where we are to make worldly views for some, please.

This is probably why God was upset when the people ask for a king to rule over them. They wanted the king to hear from God and then tell them God's will. Oh that our leaders were still seeking God's will and not try to please man.

Last I knew we were told that we had to live here on this earth, but we weren't supposed to be part of it. Yet, all I hear is people wanting the opposite, and to watch as some of those who profess they are Christians put more importance on secular/worldly issues then Gods is so sad.

What does all those scriptures have to do with anything...................well it shows us how we are to defend the faith. Why would we be voting for things that go against the faith?

Can't see Jesus doing that, can you?
 
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savedandhappy1

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It's very much a power trip, Caylin.


Power trip.........................I keep thinking that I have heard all the stupid, wrong reasonings for why people stand up against sin, and then I am proven wrong again.:doh:
 
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exxxys

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Power trip.........................I keep thinking that I have heard all the stupid, wrong reasonings for why people stand up against sin, and then I am proven wrong again.:doh:

Really. You don't think the church is on a power trip?

Well, when a religion seeks control, they use scare tactics and discriminate against anyone who is different.

You're acting as though discrimination is noble, and you're helping out the planet by* hurting people. Yes, believe it or not, gay people have feelings! They are people, and you are hurting them and their families with your hatred.
 
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T Man

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Hi

I don't know about you, but as for me, God has the final say. We all can sit and argue until the cows come home, my point of view, your point of view. In the end God will have His point of view.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
Its a good thing to remember, whos right whos wrong, what does it matter. Salvation is there for those looking for it. Each person is accountable for their own salvation. If they are wrong God will judge them, if they are ok God will judge them. Its between God and the indervidual. Don't get into arguements that waste time and effort. God and God alone is Judge. If the judgement falls against the gay community on the day, thats Gods call and His alone. Remember the weeds growing in with the wheat, Jesus said not let both grow together unles you uproot the wheat while pulling the weeds out. God makes the sun rise on the good and bad alike. So follow the law of Christ Matthew 7, don't judge and don't enter into debates that go know where. Let God do what God does well, give to all each as they desreve.

T Man
 
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AmericanCatholic

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I don't get why christians get in such a roar over the GLBT community.

There's several reasons, among which include revisionism of traditional doctrine. There is nothing wrong with love, if it is legitimately love in the first place. I love my father, my brother, my uncles, and my friends. I am not homosexual -- so it is apparent that "love" of itself does not define homosexuality. It is inherently dependent upon sexual activity, which, outside of marriage, is consistently and traditionally considered fornication. It doesn't matter if its homosexual acts, heterosexual acts, or anything else -- if it's outside of marriage, it is considered fornication. But those acts are often ingrained into one's identity, and so it becomes difficult to separate the act from the emotion. So consequently it often seems that homosexuals are seeking acceptance of their behavior, which is not possible, and that Christians are seeking to condemn homosexuals on the basis of their "orientation", which is not Christian.

I understand that some of their ways are a little odd to you, but christianity is supposed to be a 'tolerent' religion.

Christianity is a tolerant religion. But that does not mean it embraces those things which are tolerated, nor that it does not actively work to fix wrong-doing. Nor does it mean that it will redefine traditional doctrine for the sake of new passions.

All they want to do is live their lives in a way that makes them happy, what's so wrong with that?

Is that all that all homosexuals want to do?

I'm Bi myself and I see nothing wrong with it.

Why do you see nothing wrong with it?
 
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fallenphantomangel

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There's several reasons, among which include revisionism of traditional doctrine. There is nothing wrong with love, if it is legitimately love in the first place. I love my father, my brother, my uncles, and my friends. I am not homosexual -- so it is apparent that "love" of itself does not define homosexuality. It is inherently dependent upon sexual activity, which, outside of marriage, is consistently and traditionally considered fornication. It doesn't matter if its homosexual acts, heterosexual acts, or anything else -- if it's outside of marriage, it is considered fornication. But those acts are often ingrained into one's identity, and so it becomes difficult to separate the act from the emotion. So consequently it often seems that homosexuals are seeking acceptance of their behavior, which is not possible, and that Christians are seeking to condemn homosexuals on the basis of their "orientation", which is not Christian.



Christianity is a tolerant religion. But that does not mean it embraces those things which are tolerated, nor that it does not actively work to fix wrong-doing. Nor does it mean that it will redefine traditional doctrine for the sake of new passions.



Is that all that all homosexuals want to do?



Why do you see nothing wrong with it?

I can understand your point of view, and I appreciate you not 'preaching' or 'damning' me.

No, that's not the point of view of all GLBT, but you can't judge a whole community on the acts of a few bad apples, I would think as a catholic you would understand that.

And I see nothing wrong with it because I am happy with my decision and I'm not hurting anyone. I feel that I have so much love, I want to share it with more then one person. I'm not talking about sex either, that's just one way to express your love.
 
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BreadAlone

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Does God damn people for *honest* misinterpretation of the Scriptures? I would think not. In due time, the Spirit will show the Truth to the true Believer, and the Truth will set them free..

(So..no vote. There are not sufficient poll options..)
 
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artybloke

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Does God damn people for *honest* misinterpretation of the Scriptures?

Except I'm not sure that the homophobic interpretation of scripture is particularly honest (and it's certainly lacking in humility): but on the other hand, I'm sure that God even forgives those Christians who condemn others because of their mistaken view of scripture, just as he loves all of humanity and wishes them to love each other.
 
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C

ChaliceThunder

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Except I'm not sure that the homophobic interpretation of scripture is particularly honest (and it's certainly lacking in humility): but on the other hand, I'm sure that God even forgives those Christians who condemn others because of their mistaken view of scripture, just as he loves all of humanity and wishes them to love each other.

Agreed. Blinded by his own self-righteous zeal, even Saul of Tarsus was healed of his sinful persecution of those not like him.
 
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savedandhappy1

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Really. You don't think the church is on a power trip?

Well, when a religion seeks control, they use scare tactics and discriminate against anyone who is different.

You're acting as though discrimination is noble, and you're helping out the planet by* hurting people. Yes, believe it or not, gay people have feelings! They are people, and you are hurting them and their families with your hatred.


No, I'm acting as if sin is sin, and it is a wonderful time of rejoicing when someone comes to the Lord. There is nothing noble about discrimination, nor is there anything noble about closing our eyes to sin, and the souls that will be lost if we do.

Me not saying something would be the same thing as you standing there while I do something that you know will end up killing me. If you say nothing because it isn't any of your concern, or it might hurt my feelings, or someone else might think it wrong and call you names for doing it. Is that really the way you think people should treat others?

Would you really be worried about how I would take it, or would you love me enough to warn me?

If you were a Christian, (which I'm not understanding your icon to mean you are)so if you were or are a Christian would it be showing Christ love by not warning me about something?

Let's take Christ out of the question and just ask if you call it love to try and keep someone safe from harm? Has the world gotten so cold that it is agreed that everyone should just close their eyes and walk by a person being beat, raped, etc.? Is it so wrong to try and stop a person from ........................killing themselves?

Oh by the way, it doesn't matter how many times you are anyone else says that I hate someone it won't make me hate them. It will just show me how much you and them really need love. Not the kind of love that I as a human can give, because it will never be true love. Until we know the Lord we only think we know what love is, but it isn't even a drop in the bucket compare to the true love that we receive from Him.

That love is so overwhelming and fills us to overflowing so that it falls on all around us. Sadly the devil has made good bad and bad good so that everyone doesn't see it as love, but thankfully I still believe in prayer and the power of the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of those who don't have the knowledge of the truth. I believe that as long as there is breath a person still has the chance to find, and to see the truth and accept the wonderful gifts of grace and mercy, (Other words for LOVE) that can be theirs by faith in Jesus Christ.

:prayer:
 
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KCKID

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But if God had not created a hell to begin with there would be no reason for anyone to be saved from it, would there?

There is so much circular reasing going on here. It reminds me somewhat of the protection racketeers in America's past. As long as YOU pay up regularly, WE will protect YOU from US.
 
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Zecryphon

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But if God had not created a hell to begin with there would be no reason for anyone to be saved from it, would there?

There is so much circular reasing going on here. It reminds me somewhat of the protection racketeers in America's past. As long as YOU pay up regularly, WE will protect YOU from US.

God created Hell for the devil and His angels. Humans are not meant to go there, but they will if they step out of this world without Christ. But it's not God's will that they do go there, it's His will that all be saved through Christ. The scriptures are clear though that not all will be saved.
 
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KCKID

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God created Hell for the devil and His angels. Humans are not meant to go there, but they will if they step out of this world without Christ. But it's not God's will that they do go there, it's His will that all be saved through Christ. The scriptures are clear though that not all will be saved.

If it isn't God's will that humans go to hell then He wouldn't send them there, would He? I'm sure no one is twisting His arm. What kind of a God are we worshiping here?

By the way, the question is rather a rhetorical one since I don't believe in hell. However, I know that the average mainstream Christian on the forum does.
 
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david_x

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I'm Bi myself and I see nothing wrong with it.

One person is told to lay the foundation for a house and another to put in the electric, do either of them see a problem with not doing their job? Not if that's all they know, only the contractor or architect know the significance.
Do not lean on human understandings, God is the one with the blueprint and he is the only one that can understand the entirety.
 
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Zecryphon

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If it isn't God's will that humans go to hell then He wouldn't send them there, would He? I'm sure no one is twisting His arm. What kind of a God are we worshiping here?

By the way, the question is rather a rhetorical one since I don't believe in hell. However, I know that the average mainstream Christian on the forum does.

If it isn't God's will that humans go to hell then He wouldn't send them there, would He? I'm sure no one is twisting His arm. What kind of a God are we worshiping here?

By the way, the question is rather a rhetorical one since I don't believe in hell. However, I know that the average mainstream Christian on the forum does.

God doesn't send people to Hell. We send ourselves when we reject Him and sin against Him. All God does is grant us our wish. You rhetorically ask 'what kind of God do we worship'. I worship a God who loves us so much He sent His son to die in our place. What more do want Him to do? Maybe you'd be happier with a god that takes everyone to Heaven when they die, regardless of whether or not they want to go there. Then people are being held against their will, but hey, that's better than burning in Hell, right?
 
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