What was shameful about Adam and Eve's nakedness?

[dreadnought]

From my reading of the Bible and referring to competent Biblical scholarship.

I don't think we should let "competent Biblical scholarship" do our thinking for us.

 

[BobRyan]

"Uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom for "have sex". It does not speak directly to the moral nature of nakedness itself. For example, if used literally, I can say that I uncover the nakedness of my children before they take a bath. This, we would all agree on, is not immoral.

True - it is a phrase in Lev 18 to refer to sexual relations

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think we should let "competent Biblical scholarship" do our thinking for us.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story??

 

[BobRyan]

I would say it's clear that "knowing" someone meant sleeping with them (and "sleeping" is another idiom). Anyhow, that doesn't mean everything is idiomatic,

True - but we can let ourselves be "informed" by the known/shown idioms

 

[JackRT]

My fear was that this thread was going to suggest we all run around naked, and I don't think that would be wise.

Not in Canada --- depending on the season we contend with cold, black flies and mosquitoes. Thank God just one at a time.

 

[BobRyan]

If the purpose of clothing was to prevent sexual arousal, why did God cover Adam and Eve before there was anyone else around to see them?

Clothing was "the norm" -- it was sin to be naked before the Lord or to go around in regular social activity - naked.

They were not clothed with animal skins prior to sin - but they were clothed with garments of light and to our way of thinking that is "not clothed" because it does not use conventional clothing that we have access to today.

 

[Cat Loaf You]

God designed the priests garments - God states that the priests were to wear pants under their garments so that they should not in any way be uncovered as they minister before the Lord. It is a Bible maxim that to appear before the Lord in any way uncovered or naked -- is sin.

Exodus 20:26
'And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.'

Exodus 28
41"You shall put them on Aaron your brother and on his sons with him; and you shall anoint them and ordain them and consecrate them, that they may serve Me as priests. 42"You shall make for them linen breeches to cover their bare flesh; they shall reach from the loins even to the thighs. 43"They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they enter the tent of meeting, or when they approach the altar to minister in the holy place, so that they do not incur guilt and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and to his descendants after him.…

So long as Adam and Eve were sinless they had robes of light such as the Angels wear - as a covering. They did not appear naked before the Lord.

Matthew 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light

Ps 104:2 Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak,

God made the first animal-skin clothes for Adam and Eve - it was sin to be naked before the Lord.

The same God told to some prophet to get naked and prophecy so i don't think your point is valid .

 

[Aldebaran]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

I believe it all has to do with the affect of having a sin nature. Before they ate the forbidden fruit, they were naked but not ashamed because there was nothing to be ashamed of. It was only after they ate that their "eyes were opened" and they noticed it. It's not that nakedness itself is a sin, but how would you feel if you suddenly found yourself at the mall with no clothes on? Proud? I doubt it.

 

[Apex]

God designed the priests garments - God states that the priests were to wear pants under their garments so that they should not in any way be uncovered as they minister before the Lord. It is a Bible maxim that to appear before the Lord in any way uncovered or naked -- is sin.

Exodus 20:26
'And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.'

I'll address Exodus 20:26 first.

Here is an excerpt from the conservative NIV Application Commentary:

As for the specific regulations, a fair degree of speculation must accompany any comments. Why only altars of earth or uncut stone? And why no steps? The most reasonable explanation is that these stipulations are anti-Canaanite. By building their altars this way, the Israelites are making a definitive statement that the worship of their God is different from the practices of their neighbors. Moreover, the problem with stepped altars is that those walking up the steps would have their “nakedness … exposed” (v. 26). This is not simply a matter of prudishness or social embarrassment; it may also be a polemic against Canaanite cultic practices, which sometimes included sexual rituals. Later in Israel’s history, stepped altars were used, but God had instructed the priests to wear linen undergarments to avoid indecent exposure (cf. Lev. 6:10; 9:22).

Peter Enns, Exodus, The NIV Application Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2000), 442.

Here is an excerpt from The JPS Torah Commentary:

The altar must be so designed as to permit access to it with suitable propriety. This contrasts with many scenes in ancient Near Eastern art that feature priests officiating in the nude. Ritual nudity is a phenomenon known to many religions. It is symbolically associated with both death and rebirth, and it also has a variety of magical uses.

Nahum M. Sarna, Exodus, The JPS Torah Commentary (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1991), 117.

The Mentor Commentary on Exodus:

Steps up to an altar were frequently used in the ancient world to increase its height and so emphasise its importance. It was also the case that ritual nudity and associated sexual orgies were common features of ancient cultic rites, but no trace of that was to be found in the worship of the LORD.

John L. Mackay, Exodus, Mentor Commentaries (Fearn, Ross-shire, Great Britain: Mentor, 2001), 363.

The Evangelical Commentary on the Bible:

Clearly some altars were too similar to those used by the Canaanites and were not to be copied. The statement about the priest’s nakedness in verse 26 is most curious. When this same word for “nakedness” occurs elsewhere in the Pentateuch (e.g., Lev. 20:17–21), it has to do with sexual impropriety. Therefore “nakedness” here probably refers to the type of Canaanite fertility rituals that included sexual acts such as those described in Amos 2:7–8.

James K. Hoffmeier, “Exodus,” in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, vol. 3, Baker Reference Library (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1995), 55.

Here is an excerpt from another respected conservative commentary:

Ritual nakedness was a feature of early cults, whether with fertility-cult significance or as an example of extreme religious conservatism.

R. Alan Cole, Exodus: An Introduction and Commentary, vol. 2, Tyndale Old Testament Commentaries (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1973), 172.
______________________________________

The above references show that there is an academic consensus that this verse is dealing with ritual or cultic nakedness. The context is what matters about this nudity here (and why it was prohibited). God did not want the Israelites to mimic the religious rituals of their neighbors. This is the same reason they couldn't mark their skin. This also makes clear why this was prescribed to priests (or those officiating religious services) only. Plus, we are no longer under the Mosaic Law, this wouldn't be applicable to Christians anyhow.

 

[dreadnought]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story??

I don't know if that was a yes or no, but I really don't believe in letting other people tell me what the Bible means.

 

[dreadnought]

True - but we can let ourselves be "informed" by the known/shown idioms

My only concern is that the thread not be used to justify sexual immorality.

 

[dreadnought]

Not in Canada --- depending on the season we contend with cold, black flies and mosquitoes. Thank God just one at a time.

I was up in Canada once. The trees kept getting smaller as we headed north.

 

[Apex]

I don't know if that was a yes or no, but I really don't believe in letting other people tell me what the Bible means.

Why does the church have teachers?

 

[Apex]

Accidental post, sorry.

 

[dreadnought]

Why does the church have teachers?

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. Matt 23:8 RSV

 

[BobRyan]

My only concern is that the thread not be used to justify sexual immorality.

agreed I think that is not a direction that would be good to go down

 

[Yarddog]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

____________________________________________

My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.

3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.

4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."

5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Your thoughts?

There is much symbolism in Genesis. The Garden of Eden represents God's rest or righteousness. There are two creation stories in Genesis and Eden is man's new creation into the body of Christ.

Nudity represents baring all before God for God sees all and trying to cover ourselves is useless.

The Tree of Life is Jesus Christ who God's children are free to partake of and live forever. The Tree of Knowledge is the Mosaic Law and the fruit of this tree is man's desire to be responsible for his own salvation.

When Adam and Eve are from the tree they immediately gained knowledge of their sin and tried to cover up their sin. God curse Adam to till the ground, which is useless works. He cast them out of righteousness (Eden) and placed an angel to guard the entrance because man cannot attain righteousness through works.

Adam and Eve are the Jews who placed themselves under the law. Just like in Peter's vision, all of the different animals in Eden are the Gentiles. These have not been cast out of God's rest.

Genesis is an incredible book full of Jesus Christ and the Gospel.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.


5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

I once teased a coworker, I can't wait for the resurrection because everyone is going to be naked. Interesting question to add to yours. And while your adding interesting questions, ask if God was naked walking in the garden. Anyway.

First think about the words, their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked. Understand this is an analogy. Their eyes were not shut before they sinned and they certainly were smart enough to realize they were not wearing clothes before they sinned. But when they sinned a change happened. It was not a physical change. It was not an intellectual change. It was a "moral" change. Before sin it was normal for them to be naked. After sin it was not normal to be naked. It became immoral to be naked all the time.

But why is it wrong for everyone to be naked now?

Because it is for our better. Because God made women with glory like angels and men are very attracted to them. This attraction was instituted at creation as a way to "encourage" following the first command from God, "be fruitful and multiply". The problem is that with sinful man this godly attraction was changed to lustful desire. Because God does not tempt, he had to institute a way to mitigate this natural attraction for obvious beauty in God's creation. The way God fixed this in not by introducing shame but modesty. Modesty is the moral code that says there are only certain times that you can be naked. Some spouses are so modest, they don't like to be seen naked even by their spouses. So it was for our benefit, to help reduce lustful desires, that Adam and Eve became modest after sinning.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Understand that the New Covenant governs a relationship between God and man.
Modesty is a rule that governs behavior between women and men. It is a natural law since the first sin. It will never change in this age.

 

[Andrew Jeremiah]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

____________________________________________

My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.

3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.

4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."

5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Your thoughts?

I come to believe through my reading and study that SOMEONE TOLD THEM THEY WERE NAKED and shamed them. Care to guess who?

Genesis 3:7 (KJV)
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Before they didn't know they were naked - well, kind of....God taught them naked-ness BUT did not shame them, but instructed in their factual make-up (their creation).

After their mess-around with the serpent I see there may have been some subtle, verbal, condemnation of their naked-ness from the serpent. If it was of God the serpent was against it!

Their covering of fig leaves....my amazement when I learned the fig comes out before the leaf. Throws insight in the tree that Jesus cursed for not having fig (when he was hungry. It wasn't in season. figure that one out).
But the aprons these two made for themselves I take as not just covering their genitals but covering every inch of their exposed skin/naked-ness. Tree people!

Yes, Covenant of Grace - AND BECAUSE we have the Holy Spirit WITHIN us we are seen by God as having obeyed every jot and tittle of the Law (as Christ-our Advocate and Rep.), did. This means that NOW the Law is given by inspiration of God and is PROFIT-able for (first and foremost) doctrine, reproof, correction and INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS (which is why it was given) so that the man (and woman) of God might be thoroughly furnished unto all good GRACE!
NO, no. It says WORKS!
So think this one out
[you're supposed to come back at me with Matt. 4:4 as your retort!]
Tee hee.
Good considerations there, Apex. A thinking Christian. Someone is being poked in the spirit in the middle of the night.