What was shameful about Adam and Eve's nakedness?

[Apex]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

____________________________________________

My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.

3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.

4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."

5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Your thoughts?

 

[dreadnought]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

____________________________________________

My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.

3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.

4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."

5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Your thoughts?

I don't claim to understand the issue of why Adam and Eve were naked, and we are not. I do know that they were without sin at the time. I assume that had something to do with it. But before we all start ripping our clothes off (which I have no desire to do), I’d like to remind you of these verses:

[6] "None of you shall approach any one near of kin to him to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.
[7] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
[8] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness.
[9] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or born abroad.
[10] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
[11] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten by your father, since she is your sister.
[12] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's near kinswoman.
[13] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's near kinswoman.
[14] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
[15] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
[16] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; she is your brother's nakedness.
[17] You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are your near kinswomen; it is wickedness. Lev 18:6-17 RSV

 

[skahler]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

____________________________________________

My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

Note: Shame in the OT world was connected to public reputation. Shame is the public exposure of guilt. In Genesis, Adam and Eve were attempting to prevent God from shaming them by fulfilling their own needs themselves. They were guilty, not of being naked openly (no one was there to see them besides God!), but of violating God's command and fracturing themselves from his gracious provisions.

3. Nakedness is seen throughout Scripture as neediness and/or weakness. This new awareness of their nakedness on the part of Adam and Eve suggests their boarder awareness of their total dependence on God - who had provided for them in the garden for all their needs.

4. In this sense, nudity is being communicated as nonmoral. It is soley being used to communicate what they were lacking. As Job states eloquently, "Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return."

5. For clarity, I'm not suggesting we should walk around naked. I believing clothing has an important purpose; however, I am suggesting that we shouldn't be so concerned with nakedness as to make exposure (accidental or not) an inherent immoral act. Context and intentions matter. We live under the New Covenant of Grace.

Your thoughts?

Um, I've been to a nude beach before and it is definitely not normal. Even in Africa they put together clothes to cover their bodies. Clothing is like... one of the most basic human inventions.

And it's essentially because... well... men and women were designed to be aroused by nudity, and so to try to function and be aroused at the same time is not really possible. Results in like a cognitive dissonance.

So in essence, no. Full nudity is not like a "pure", earthly thing. Like it's fun to run around naked by yourself or whatever, but when with another it's like... well. It deviates from what would normally be a very strong foundation within a family to somehow function this way, because of the way that God designed us.

 

[Apex]

I don't claim to understand the issue of why Adam and Eve were naked, and we are not. I do know that they were without sin at the time. I assume that had something to do with it. But before we all start ripping our clothes off (which I have no desire to do), I’d like to remind you of these verses:

[6] "None of you shall approach any one near of kin to him to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.
[7] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
[8] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness.
[9] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or born abroad.
[10] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
[11] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten by your father, since she is your sister.
[12] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's near kinswoman.
[13] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's near kinswoman.
[14] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
[15] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
[16] You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; she is your brother's nakedness.
[17] You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are your near kinswomen; it is wickedness. Lev 18:6-17 RSV

"Uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom for "have sex". It does not speak directly to the moral nature of nakedness itself. For example, if used literally, I can say that I uncover the nakedness of my children before they take a bath. This, we would all agree on, is not immoral.

 

[JackRT]

I suspect that the phrase "uncover the nakedness of" is an euphemism for 'having sexual intimacy with'.

 

[Apex]

Um, I've been to a nude beach before and it is definitely not normal. Even in Africa they put together clothes to cover their bodies. Clothing is like... one of the most basic human inventions.

And it's essentially because... well... men and women were designed to be aroused by nudity, and so to try to function and be aroused at the same time is not really possible. Results in like a cognitive dissonance.

So in essence, no. Full nudity is not like a "pure", earthly thing. Like it's fun to run around naked by yourself or whatever, but when with another it's like... well. It deviates from what would normally be a very strong foundation within a family to somehow function this way, because of the way that God designed us.

If the purpose of clothing was to prevent sexual arousal, why did God cover Adam and Eve before there was anyone else around to see them?

 

[SkyWriting]

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

People were as animals before the fall. After God re-made man into the Image of God, man became aware of "self" rather than the outward focus of life. Sin comes from pleasing "self" rather than just living. They became aware of self and ashamed of the awareness.

Like in a dream, you're giving a speech and focused on others and suddenly notice your not wearing pants. Moments before, you were not ashamed.

 

[dreadnought]

"Uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom for "have sex". It does not speak directly to the moral nature of nakedness itself. For example, if used literally, I can say that I uncover the nakedness of my children before they take a bath. This, we would all agree on, is not immoral.

How do we know that "uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom? Wouldn't we expect the authors of the Bible to use plain language?

 

[Kenny'sID]

If the purpose of clothing was to prevent sexual arousal, why did God cover Adam and Eve before there was anyone else around to see them?

IF? What do you mean, if? Why do you even have to ask the question? For good reason the site won't allow me to go get a picture to post here and prove what I thought was one thing everyone knew and agreed upon..

Seems like you are trying to justify public nudity...thinking about joining a nude club of some type? That's a serious question. If not is there a reason you haven't mentioned?

 

[Apex]

Like in a dream, you're giving a speech and focused on others and suddenly notice your not wearing pants. Moments before, you were not ashamed.

I'd feel embarrassed, not ashamed.

Another question for the thread:

Did the covering God provided for Eve cover her breasts? I personally do not think so. People concerned about modest clothing tend to be legalistic, the most extreme example is the Islamic burqa. Many women unfortunately experience moral outrage from breastfeeding in public places. Even the normal biological use of breasts in public is considered immodest by some.

 

[JackRT]

How do we know that "uncover the nakedness of" is an idiom? Wouldn't we expect the authors of the Bible to use plain language?

The authors of the Bible lived in a culture that had very strong taboos about both public nakedness and even the naming of "private" parts and actions. They used euphemisms like 'thigh' to refer to the genitals or 'knowledge of' to refer to sexual intercourse. In this respect the language of the Bible is far from plain.

 

[Apex]

IF? What do you mean, if? Why do you even have to ask the question? For good reason the site won't allow me to go get a picture to post here and prove what I thought was one thing everyone knew and agreed upon..

Seems like you are trying to justify public nudity...thinking about joining a nude club of some type? That's a serious question. If not is there a reason you haven't mentioned?

I asked a legitimate question. You are attempting to dodge it. I can think of various reasons for wearing clothing, like to keep warm in winter or to protect sensitive genitals (or skin) from harm (like sunburn or other environmental hazards).

 

[Kenny'sID]

I asked a legitimate question. You are attempting to dodge it. I can think of various reasons for wearing clothing, like to keep warm in winter or to protect sensitive genitals (or skin) from harm (like sunburn or other environmental hazards).

Think about it, do those other things you just mentioned, like weather/sunburn really seem like it was an/the issue in the garden? It never was before.

I'm really not dodging the question at all, this is my way of getting an answer through to you.

 

[Apex]

Think about it, do those other things you just mentioned, like weather/sunburn really seem like it was an/the issue in the garden? It never was before.

I'm really not dodging the question at all, this is my way of getting an answer through to you.

Actually, yes. After sin, many new environmental issues arose, some that might have made clothing a good option. Can you answer my question now?

 

[dreadnought]

The authors of the Bible lived in a culture that had very strong taboos about both public nakedness and even the naming of "private" parts and actions. They used euphemisms like 'thigh' to refer to the genitals or 'knowledge of' to refer to sexual intercourse. In this respect the language of the Bible is far from plain.

How do you know that?

 

[Apex]

How do you know that?

Genesis 4:1
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain...

I guess just knowing women can get them pregnant.

 

[JackRT]

How do you know that?

From my reading of the Bible and referring to competent Biblical scholarship.

 

[BobRyan]

I've noticed some troubling Christian theological positions on nudity (such as this one), so I wanted to investigate the most cited passage when this topic comes up.

We read in Genesis 2:25 after Eve is created and becomes "one flesh" with Adam:

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Later, in Genesis 3:7 and immediately after the couple sins, we read:

Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

After they made coverings out of the fig leaves, we read:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself."

____________________________________________

My thoughts:

1. Adam and Eve were never ashamed to see themselves naked. Shame here comes from God discovering them naked.

2. Even though Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves, they still hid from God when they heard Him coming. They claimed they did not want God to find them naked. It appears they thought their makeshift fig leaf coverings were inadequate. The fig leaves did not fully satiate their need.

God designed the priests garments - God states that the priests were to wear pants under their garments so that they should not in any way be uncovered as they minister before the Lord. It is a Bible maxim that to appear before the Lord in any way uncovered or naked -- is sin.

Exodus 20:26
'And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.'

Exodus 28
41"You shall put them on Aaron your brother and on his sons with him; and you shall anoint them and ordain them and consecrate them, that they may serve Me as priests. 42"You shall make for them linen breeches to cover their bare flesh; they shall reach from the loins even to the thighs. 43"They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they enter the tent of meeting, or when they approach the altar to minister in the holy place, so that they do not incur guilt and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and to his descendants after him.…

So long as Adam and Eve were sinless they had robes of light such as the Angels wear - as a covering. They did not appear naked before the Lord.

Matthew 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light

Ps 104:2 Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak,

God made the first animal-skin clothes for Adam and Eve - it was sin to be naked before the Lord.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Actually, yes. After sin, many new environmental issues arose, some that might have made clothing a good option. Can you answer my question now?

They were still in the garden at this point, as I recall anyway.

On your question, why did he cover them to begin with? Because they could see each other?

Why do you think?

 

[dreadnought]

Genesis 4:1
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain...

I guess just knowing woman can get them pregnant.

I would say it's clear that "knowing" someone meant sleeping with them (and "sleeping" is another idiom). Anyhow, that doesn't mean everything is idiomatic, and it's a bit off topic, isn't it? My fear was that this thread was going to suggest we all run around naked, and I don't think that would be wise.