What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

[eleos1954]

Something to consider as well is that in God we are discussing an omnipresent being. "Omnipresent" doesn't merely mean that God exists in every point in space simultaneously, it also means that He exists in every moment of time simultaneously.

So "God's plan" is not merely something that will happen in "the future." That's our limited viewpoint. But in the omnipresent mind of God, His plan is already accomplished. For Moses, the sacrifices looked to the future. In the mind of God, He was already observing Christ on the cross.

Omnipresent

Difficult to get our minds around ;o)

God lives in the eternal .... where there is no time.

He is always working

John 5:17
New Living Translation
But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”

 

[1213]

What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

Bible says the reason why Jesus came is this:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19

He said to them, "Let's go elsewhere into the next towns, that I may preach there also, because for this reason I came forth."
Mark 1:38

And reason why he died is:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9

 

[St_Worm2]

Did this quoting from Rom 3:25,26 come from a Bible Translation or a Commentary?

It's from the NIVUK (I added the "[passed over]" part). edit: just FYI, in Romans 3:25 the NIVUK reads as follows: "in His forbearance, God left the sins committed beforehand unpunished." The NASB says, "in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed."

 

[Studyman]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

It is written "The Just shall live by Faith". Abraham exhibited this faith that his sins would be forgiven.

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Jesus said sins were forgiven. Moses also said sins were forgiven. It requires "Faith" in these Words for a man to believe Him. God already knew that the Lamb of God would give His life for us. We have not seen the judgment yet, are to live by Faith that God would provide Himself for the sacrifice for our sins.

It is written that Jesus was Slain from the foundation of the world. I think this means God, who created time itself, knows the end from the beginning. He holds time in His hands like a globe. He say the killing of Jesus before man was even created. But we can't see the end. We live by Faith, or the belief in something we can't see. We didn't see Jesus crucified either, but His People still believe He was. They have Faith.

That is my take on the answer to your question.

 

[Dovid / עבד ישוע ...דוד]

Because even before he came to earth, the sacrifices the Israelites did, were in place of Jesus and pointed to him. Some were counted as being righteous through faith.
Hebrews 11 the entire chapter is on OT people of faith.

If Jesus hadn't come, the sacrifices, the blood the Israelites put on the door lintel would have pointed to nothing.

The Israelites placed blood on the doorposts only once in Egypt to ensure the destroyer (Malach ha'Mavet) Passed-Over them. When they did this (1400yr before Yeshua) whom was it signifying...?

The blood of Yitzchak when Avraham took him up onto Mount Moria & shed his blood.

There are many different catergories of sacrifices of which some point to Yeshua.
The Korban Olah (elevation offering) "Satisfying aroma"
The Korban Mincha (meal offering) "Satisfying aroma"
The Korban Shela'mim (feast peace offering) "Satisfying aroma"
The Korban Chata'at (sin offering)
The Korban Asham (guilt offering)
The Korban Parah-Adamah (Red hieffer offering)
The daily "Olah Tamid" does point to Yeshua
The rare "Red Hieffer does point to Yeshua
The Chata'at & Asham does point to Yeshua

This is a brief example.............

 

[prodromos]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

We were still subject to death. Jesus came, not only to reveal to mankind "the way, the truth and the life", but also to destroy the hold that death had over us. There was no resurrection for us until Christ Himself had risen from the dead.

 

[Freed Man]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

In the Old Testament people could obtain mercy and be forgiven for their sins, but they had to keep coming back again, and again to ask for mercy and forgiveness. That's why God instituted the blood sacrifice of bulls and goats and sheep, etc. The priest would offer up Sacrifices once a year for the sins of the people. And they had to keep doing this year after year because the blood of bulls can never completely cleans people of their sins. "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." (Hebrews 10:4)

But when Jesus came He totally obliterated sin so that if we believe in Him we are free from sin and totally reconciled to God forever. "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.
And every high priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices which can never take away sins.
But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God.
From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
For by one offering He hath perfected forever them that art sanctified." (Hebrews 10:10-14)

Jesus was the last blood Sacrifice that needed to be made for the remission of our sins. We are saved forever and do not need to keep coming back every so often to continue asking for forgiveness and Salvation. We have it forever, "Once saved, always saved".

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission." (Hebrews 9:22)
In order for us to need to be forgiven and resaved again there would have to be another blood sacrifice for our sins. But Jesus was the last blood sacrifice because His Sacrifice completely cleanses us from all sins forever.

It is worth it to note that the old testament prophets also were saved by the grace of Jesus. They looked forward to Jesus' Sacrifice for them by Faith and we look back to What Jesus did for us. We're still all saved by Faith.

 

[Hawkins]

The concept is analogue to the use of a credit card. So your question becomes why cash is needed to be paid when you can actually make purchases without the cash.

 

[Freed Man]

The concept is analogue to the use of a credit card. So your question becomes why cash is needed to be paid when you can actually make purchases without the cash.

At the moment you can't pay for everything with a credit card. Some things it's actually illegal to pay for with a credit card. In the states that have made marijuana legal you are required to pay with cash. You also have to pay for lottery tickets with cash. The truly cashless society won't come till the antichrist rises to power and sets up his one world government where nobody can buy or sell unless they have the mark of the antichrist in their right hand or forehead. That will do away with even the credit card. Because they will put a microchip in your right hand or forehead that has all your personal and bank account information on it. So all they will have to do is scan your right hand or forehead and debit or credit your bank account information, as the case may be, depending on what you are buying or selling.

But to take the mark of the beast is to worship the antichrist as god and to refute belief in any other God or religion including Jesus and God the Father who created the whole world. Since we won't be able to legally buy or sell anything without worshiping to Antichrist, that's when we will have to flee into the wilderness and be forced to truly trust in God to take care of us and supply our needs. And we know He will. This is what's known as the time of great tribulation.

 

[Hawkins]

At the moment you can't pay for everything with a credit card. Some things it's actually illegal to pay for with a credit card.

An analogy is to illustrate a point. It is not an equivalent to the situation as you are trying to put here. For example, Jesus is the Shepherd and we are His sheep. This is rather an analogy, it is thus no point to argue the some shepherds actually kill sheep and eat them.

The point is a covenant is signed off by presuming that Jesus will finally "pay the bill" through the crucifixion. So humans before Jesus' first coming are protected by a series of covenants applicable to the different scope of humans in terms of time they live and ethnicity they belong to (say the Jews have an independent series of covenants from that of the gentiles).

 

[eleos1954]

Animals were sacrificed for sin's to be forgiven under the first covenant so Christ came to end that as the last ever Lamb or any other animal sacrifice for that new covenant that started when he died.

Animals never provided forgiveness. The sanctuary system was pointing to the sacrifice of Jesus (the promise to come). The plan of salvation was put in place before creation (and that would be for all for all time). The OT people were saved the same way we are by faith in God and the blood of Jesus and the believing in Him and the promise of His return.

What changed when the earthly sanctuary was done away with ... is Jesus Himself being our High priest and the final sacrifice for all ... and He now ministers from the sanctuary in heaven.

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[rnmomof7]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

The means of salvation was the same in the Old as the New.. Faith.. the OT Saints were saved by faith looking forward to the promise.. NT saints by faith in the fulfilled promise

 

[eleos1954]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

The PLAN of salvation was put in place before creation ... and the PLAN was that salvation would come through Jesus and only Him.

Those in the OT were saved by believing in the promise of the one to come (Jesus) .... same as us. All wait for His return and for the total completion of the Salvation Plan .... ie after EVERYTHING is done and the new heavens and earth are created and no more sin nor sorrow for eternity! Amen!

We know the war (against sin and evil) has been won by Jesus ... we are waiting for Him to come pick up all the survivors ;o)

 

[Brightfame52]

“ without the shedding of blood, there is no Sacrifice for Sin......”

Because of the Shed Blood Of The Perfect Lamb Of God, EVERY sin ever committed on this planet and every Sin that can be committed in the Future has been wiped out.....Fully paid for......” It is Finished”
To “ cash in” on what has already been accomplished for you , you must “ Turn to God, with Faith in Jesus Christ”...... Do this by hearing and Resting in the Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing found in 1Cor15:1-4......

What about people who shall die in their sins? Have their sins been fully paid and wiped out perfectly?

 

[Soyeong]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

People before the cross looked in faith to the promised Redeemer in the same way that we do. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God and was a righteous man, so he was declared righteous by grace through faith by the same means as everyone else. Likewise, all of the example listed in Hebrews 11 are of people in the OT who had saving faith in Christ. Everything in the OT testifies about Christ (John 5:39-40), so it all points toward his incarnation, but his incarnation still needed to happen.

 

[Brightfame52]

Because sins being forgiven whether in OT or NT we're conditioned on Christ shed Blood. In the eternal purpose of God He was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

To pay the price that the forgiveness was based on in the first place.

 

[SkyWriting]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

The Truth and message to God's people have always been the same since Creation. But the person of Jesus and the heart of the Father was further revealed in Jesus. Then another, The Holy Spirit came down after Jesus left. God has never changed but the personhood representing Him has been revealed in the proper sequence for man.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

David is saved because of Jesus. God promised there will be a savior, and that's Jesus. God promised abarahm few things, but that idea expanded, those are just shadows to what's to come..

 

[disciple1]

No one can keep the Law, for with the Law also comes the Law of sin and death, but with Jesus Sacrifice, comes the New Birth, and Life, the freedom from sin which the Jews never could attain.

Jesus Sacrifice is Once For All, no do overs, no repeating "It Is Finished!"

I know Jesus died for the sins of the world, but what do you make of this verse.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.