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What value is Homosexuality to society?

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marksman007

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My point is that you are then responsible for leading people away from the faith. If you don't believe me, then believe Polycarp. If you don't believe him, then believe Todd. If you don't believe him, then you're completely illogical.

First, thankyou for the techincal advice. My ignorance in this matter is very evidence.Second, Your God is too small. Being a Calvinist, a person who is going to be saved will be saved because he has been chosen before the foundation of the world. Very often what happens in the kingdom of God happens despite us, not because of us. But then God is gracious and love covers a multitude of sins. Whether I am good, bad or indifferent I know that God is crazy about me so I enjoy a very loving and personal relationship with him that fulfills all my needs. A bit like my relationship with my children. I don't stop loving them when they are not perfect. In fact, I probably love them more as I don't like seeing things go wrong for them.
 
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marksman007

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I am denying it because you didn't quote me attacking anyone. Not only that, you attacked me when I specifically asked you to quote where I attack someone.

Even though you said in the quote "you didn't quote me"
 
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marksman007

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I honestly don't care. You are a random guy from the internet, and you have not cited anything that would convince me that the information you are giving is in any way reliable. You have not given scholarly sources, you claim to have experience. Guess what? I have experience too. For all you know, I spent 40 years doing the same thing and came up with different conclusions.

I doubt the 40 years experience bit as you are only 22. Having been in senior management of multi-million dollar companies, I learnt that there are two ways you can learn. The hard way and the easy way.The hard way is to ignore eveyone else and do your own thing. The easy way is to learn from and listen to people who have already done it. It doesn't mean you won't make mistakes but it does mean that you will make a lot less than going your own way. I have a distinct feeling that you are going to learn life the hard way.
 
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marksman007

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Seriously, his motives are clear. He has admitted that he is a member of an organisation that believes that through belief in Christianity he can make gay people straight. He isn't going to change his minds, he isn't going to get any more reasonable.



I didn't say I was a member of an organisation that......I said I founded one. I am now retired. Having discovered that homosexuals who don't want to be one can be set free from it and helping them to do so is about as reasonable as you can get.
 
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marksman007

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He's still turning people off from the Gospel. I'm not aiming to change his mind.

If you believe God's word that you are chosen before the foundation of the world as I do because I find the bible very reliable, it is impossible for anyone who is chosen to be turned off. The only reason they would be turned off is due to the fact that they are not chosen and the reason they are not chosen is because God knew that when they are presented with the gospel they would reject the salvation he offers.
 
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marksman007

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There are none so blind as those that will not see...

The link directs me to page 12 and on that page are the following posts....111-Argent Bear; 112-Little Nipper; 113-Belk; 114-Gishin; 115-Little Nipper; 116-Little Nipper; 117-God'sChild; 118-Lady Kate; 119-Zaac; 120-Little Nipper. I think your quote applies to you.
 
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Maren

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491: I also have to agree with GodsChild that your methods of trying to preach the word are counter-productive. Part of it is that you've been shown how various of your sources flat out lie, yet you continue to repost them even after having it shown to you that they are false. But most of it is that you drive people away with the rhetoric you spout.RESPONSE: Again you are incorrect in your assumptions Maren. I have not been shown that what I posted is a lie. I have been told of other people's opinions but that is not evidence. For example, one so called piece of evidence was from "People for the American Way."This is an organisation of atheists that are committed to wiping out christianity in public life in America. Truth is not high on the agenda with this lot having read many of their publications. Their motto is "The end justifies the means".

Actually, you have been shown that what you are posted is a lie. You continually post things that refer to a "Dutch Study" and sometimes they actually link to what the Dutch study is. You have been shown by multiple people that this study, rather than showing promiscuity in homosexuals, actually excluded homosexuals that were not homosexual. In fact, we've linked exactly where you can go to read the study. Trying to portray a study that purposely excludes people that are monogamous as "evidence" is lying, period. Sure, someone maybe made a mistake in referring to it the first time but, having it pointed out, that they continue to use that study (and that you continue to use it as evidence that all homosexuals are promiscuous) shows that they are lying to support their agenda. And that is just one example. There are other studies where we've posted what the facts of the studies are, what the studies themselves say (and not what others say about them) complete with links, and you have ignored it. And this is not an assumption, this is what has been shown on this thread to you by multiple posters.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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The link directs me to page 12 and on that page are the following posts....111-Argent Bear; 112-Little Nipper; 113-Belk; 114-Gishin; 115-Little Nipper; 116-Little Nipper; 117-God'sChild; 118-Lady Kate; 119-Zaac; 120-Little Nipper. I think your quote applies to you.

Here's the text again, since you don't seem to be able to find it...


And it always floors me when atheists keep pandering their fairy stories as though they were fact and no one takes a blind bit of notice and they keep doing it because they have this weird idea that by saying God doesn't exist he for some reason he is going to disappear in a puff of smoke.

What is even weirder is that they say the bible is book of fairy stories and then they quote it to prove their point. Not logical.

Well, that didn't address what I was talking about at all, now did it? Please try and keep up with the topic. Which is:


You know Marksman007, Zaac...

You're on a message board with both Christians and non-Christians. I'd venture a guess and say that no non-Christian will ever convert to your religion because of what you're spouting. That means if you're really trying to use this board to minister, you're failing.. miserably. But you know what, I don't think either of you are.

Now, you can do the whole "I don't change hearts, the holy spirit changes hearts" spiel I (and everyone else here) have heard a million times, but I think the truth is you don't care that no one will listen to your message, because you're just paying lip service to your god in order to throw out disdain and hatred. I think if you were given proof your methods of witnessing actually turned people further away from your religion, which I'm sure it has, it wouldn't make any difference to you at all.

You really think that if your god exists he doesn't see your failures as witnesses as anything but either pig headed stupidity, or outright deceit? You really think you're going to get to heaven and say "I witnessed to people like you said to" without your god saying back "You knew very well what you were doing was counter productive"? I suppose you could blather on about hardened hearts and unrepentant sinners, but you really think your omniscient god isn't going to see through that and call you out on what any child can see... that to convince a particular audience of something you have to play to that audience? But like I already said, I don't think you care.

And what's worse, when one of your own tries to call you out on it, you immediately become rude and accuse him of not being one of you. Godschild87, while I don't agree with your theology, I have to give you props for being intelligent enough to go about it in the right way.

I swear, we non-believers don't actually have to do anything to see the eventual collapse of your religion. You guys are doing an excellent job of destroying it from within...
 
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Archer93

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Everyone has the possibility to become romantically attracted to someone of the same sex. It is what someone does with such attraction that fosters sin.

Every guy I know, at sometime or other has said, "Gee, if I only looked like him..." Every guy I know has persued a relationship with someone of the same sex because they were seen as "cool." Every guy I know has copied clothing styles, tastes in music, etc., in an effort to become that person. Every guy has within him the propensity to have those same feelings reciprocated. That is the reality ----- what homosexuality does is take it one step further...

That's a very shallow reason for getting to know someone. It suggests that the people you know lack self-esteem, in that they are not comfortable and secure in themselves and need to find validation through imitating others. Various friends have introduced me to new music or suggested clothing styles that might suit me, but I don't change my entire music collection or wardrobe to copy them. Same goes for relationships.
 
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Zaac

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Well, your planting the seed that all Christians are *******s, that's for sure.

It always floors me when Christians know their witnessing methods are ineffectual, but do it anyway because they think they're following the letter of the law. I would suggest the spirit of the law would dictate that you try and do a good job of witnessing.

Seriously, you might as well read the book of John to people while hitting them with a brick, for all the good it does you...


What you would suggest is that I tell people what their itching ears want to hear instead of what God's word says.

As will be the case during the time of Tribulation, God right now will let folks reject the Gospel and continue to believe the lies that they want.

Doesn't mean that the Body of Christ is to capitulate to those who do not want to hear and stop preaching His Truth.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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What you would suggest is that I tell people what their itching ears want to hear instead of what God's word says.

As will be the case during the time of Tribulation, God right now will let folks reject the Gospel and continue to believe the lies that they want.

Doesn't mean that the Body of Christ is to capitulate to those who do not want to hear and stop preaching His Truth.

Noooooo....

Look, you ALREADY admitted that the manner in which you preach affects your success rate. So you agree that there's more than one way to present your information. When dealing with any particular type of non-believers you can:

A.) Adjust the manner you use for that individual to try and increase your success rate. Which you admit works.

or...

B.) Don't. In which case your success rate drops. Probably dramatically.

It's that simple.

So which is it?
 
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Polycarp1

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What you would suggest is that I tell people what their itching ears want to hear instead of what God's word says.

As will be the case during the time of Tribulation, God right now will let folks reject the Gospel and continue to believe the lies that they want.

Doesn't mean that the Body of Christ is to capitulate to those who do not want to hear and stop preaching His Truth.

What is being suggested is that you preach, and live, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not what the Republican Party, the bibliolaters, the homophobic lobbiers, the society-is-doomed apocalypts, the secular humanists, the one-size-fits-all universalists, or any other group wants you to say, but what Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior wants you to say.

And I humbly submit to you that He does not want you to look like a Pharisee condemning sinners but rather to let them know that there is salvation and forgiveness and plentiful love in His Father's arms.

May His peace be with you, Zaac.
 
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Zaac

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Zaac, I presume you would be insulted if someone accused you of bibliolatry. Explain, if you would please, what the term means fto you, and how your attitude in prvious posts differs from it. (Notice i'm not being accusatory; *I* don'tt see the distinction, and I am assuming you o, and thererore asking for an explanation.)

I don't have a problem with folks accusing me of Bibliolatry. I have consistently found that to be an accusation levied by those who frown upon Christians standing firmly on Scripture as given in the Bible as God's word.

For me as a man of God, Scripture is authoritative because It is the inspired word of God. And Godschild and everyone else can make up every excuse in the world for why It is not and I am STILL gonna preach It as the authoritative word of God.

Without fail, the reason there are so many false teachers masquerading as men and women of God but who really need to just sit down and be quiet is because they have a problem with Scripture being the authoritative word of God.

That's why confusion is bred.

Anytime I see a so called Christian saying that Scripture as given in the Bible is not God's word, I don't receive any sort of counsel from them cause their is NO WAY they can be aligned with God.
 
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Zaac

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Noooooo....

Look, you ALREADY admitted that the manner in which you preach affects your success rate. So you agree that there's more than one way to present your information. When dealing with any particular type of non-believers you can:

A.) Adjust the manner you use for that individual to try and increase your success rate. Which you admit works.

or...

B.) Don't. In which case your success rate drops. Probably dramatically.

It's that simple.

So which is it?

Let me explain something for those of you not in the know. Christ draws men unto Himself. All I am to do is preach what He says to preach in a loving manner and watch Him move.

I don't have to jump through any hoops and put on a show in order to see someone successfully led to Christ. There is no step action table to be followed to win someone to Christ. He turns the hearts as HE chooses.

I am simply to make myself available and do what HE says how He says to do it.

So to answer your question. Neither A nor B. Christ ALONE saves. ANd if I am sharing the Gospel in love as He says, the success rate is dependent upon how HE moves, not me.
 
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Archer93

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It is said that imitation is the highest form of flattery, so thankyou for repeating my post word for word (almost). In the meantime, here are a few facts for you to ponder.

MONOGAMY VS. PROMISCUITY: SEXUAL PARTNERS OUTSIDE OF THE RELATIONSHIP​
Lest anyone suffer the illusion that any equivalency between the sexual practices of homosexual relationships and traditional marriage exists, the statistics regarding sexual fidelity within marriage are revealing:
Married couples
· A nationally representative survey of 884 men and 1,288 women published in the Journal of Sex Research found that 77 percent of married men and 88 percent of married women had remained faithful to their marriage vows.[9]
· A 1997 national survey appearing in The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States found that 75 percent of husbands and 85 percent of wives never had sexual relations outside of marriage.[10]
· A telephone survey conducted for Parade magazine of 1,049 adults selected to represent the demographic characteristics of the United States found that 81 percent of married men and 85 percent of married women reported that they had never violated their marriage vows.[11]
Male Homosexuals
Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:
· The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.[12]
· Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]
· In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]
· A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]
"Commitment" in Male Homosexual Couples
Even in those homosexual relationships in which the partners consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, the meaning of "committed" or "monogamous" typically means something radically different than in heterosexual marriage.
· A Canadian study of homosexual men who had been in committed relationships lasting longer than one year found that only 25 percent of those interviewed reported being monogamous." According to study author Barry Adam, "Gay culture allows men to explore different...forms of relationships besides the monogamy coveted by heterosexuals."[16]
· The Handbook of Family Diversity reported a study in which "many self-described 'monogamous' couples reported an average of three to five partners in the past year. Blasband and Peplau (1985) observed a similar pattern."[17]
· In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that, in a study of 156 males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years:
Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years. Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.[18]
As the following chart shows, the extremely low rate of sexual fidelity among homosexual men dramatically contrasts with the high rate of fidelity among married heterosexuals.

Leaving aside any questions regarding the methodology of these studies, as I don't feel qualified to comment on them- So? Why is sexual fidelity such a sine qua non for you? What about emotional fidelity? If a couple decides between themselves to have an open relationship, what's the problem? It's not your thing, and you don't like it, but why are you the arbiter of what makes a relationship valid? The 'Cleave unto only' clause is not a given in civil marriages, I know several married couples who have not included it and therefore can't break that vow. When that clause is included, it's often in a religious context, and the social expectation of sexual fidelity is very strong. It's cultural expectation that reinforces monogamy in marriage (um, tautology?), and as cultures change, the expectations change as well. As for the supposed promiscuity of gay men- well, some gay men have a lot of sexual encounters, true. So do some straight men. Gay men maybe have more because (and I'm about to make a major generalisation here, and I know it is not an absolute statement of fact, but it's true enough) in the main, men are horn-dogs. Not all, of course, but generally speaking, men are more up for casual sex than women are. This may be a cultural thing, or a genetic thing, but whatever the reason, a man offered the chance of a one-night-stand will be more likely to accept the offer than a woman would be.
 
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Zaac

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What is being suggested is that you preach, and live, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not what the Republican Party, the bibliolaters, the homophobic lobbiers, the society-is-doomed apocalypts, the secular humanists, the one-size-fits-all universalists, or any other group wants you to say, but what Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior wants you to say.

And that's exactly what I am doing. Yall just don't think so because doing so directs me to preach against the sin of which so many of you approve.

And I humbly submit to you that He does not want you to look like a Pharisee condemning sinners but rather to let them know that there is salvation and forgiveness and plentiful love in His Father's arms.

And I humbly submit to you that a man is not gonna seek forgiveness if no one ever tells him that what he is doing is a sin. All the masses on this board do is affirm as unsinful that which God calls sin. When I stand before Him and give an account, I will do so with a clear conscience that I did what HE says instead of what men THINK I should do.
 
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