What Value has Evangelism in Reformed Theology

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5thKingdom

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In case you may not realize it, all the verses that Paul quoted in Rom 15 were from the OT. So much for your claim.


Of course I realize it... I sent you those verses the other day
when you asked for OT Scriptures that foretold of the Church Age.

So tell me...

What are the NAMES of the Gentiles who were saved BEFORE
Christ came?

Out of the MILLIONS of OT Gentiles... how many can you name
that were saved?

As I said, before Christ came God was saving only Jews,
(with only a couple of exceptions). After Christ came, God
was saving Jews and Gentiles.

Jew + Gentile = "the world"

God NEVER promised to save everybody ever born in the world...
He promised to save EVERY CLASS (or peoples) which are
going to be EITHER Jew or Gentile.

So you have the OT where God was saving Jews
And in the NT God saved Jew and Gentile
Jew + Gentile = "the world"

If "the world" means everyone ever born on this planet
then there would be nobody in hell.

.
 
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5thKingdom

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Well, guess what, Jim. I'm not one of your "all previous saints", and I understand the end times far better than you apparently do.


Then tell me...

What was the historical fulfillment of Daniel's
"Abomination of Desolation" and WHO "placed" or "set-up"
the Abomination?


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Well, guess what, Jim. I'm not one of your "all previous saints", and I understand the end times far better than you apparently do.


So you are saying that you teach Daniel's prophecies were
"closed-up" and "sealed" until the "time-of-the-end"?
Yes or No?


WHO are the Saints that "shall understand" Daniel's prophecies,
and WHEN did that happen?


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Where do you get the notion that I've denied biblical mysteries? I deny YOUR notions.


So you accept Daniel 12 and you AGREE Daniel's prophecies
were "closed-up" and "sealed" to all Saints til the "time-of-the-end"?

WHEN did they become "revealed"... and to WHO?

(1) I already asked you to explain WHO Daniel's 4 Beasts represent...
so I expect you will be answering that question.

(2) I already asked you to explain WHAT Daniel's "Abomination"
represented and WHO "placed" or "set-up" the AOD...
so I expect you will be answering that question also.

.
 
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FreeGrace2

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The tell me what Daniel's Four Beasts represent.
.
You don't address my refutations of your ideas, so why should I respond to any of your questions? And the 4th beast has no relevance to your unbiblical 5 kingdoms notions anyway.

You're just trying to dodge and deflect from your indefensible ideas.
 
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FreeGrace2

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So tell me...

What are the NAMES of the Gentiles who were saved BEFORE
Christ came?
Are you well? How would I know the names of ANY Gentile who believed in the Messiah for salvation??

Out of the MILLIONS of OT Gentiles... how many can you name
that were saved?
Your questions are quite weird.

As I said, before Christ came God was saving only Jews,
(with only a couple of exceptions). After Christ came, God
was saving Jews and Gentiles.
Yeah, I know what you were saying. And your claims are wrong.

Haven't you ever read Isa 53?

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledgemy righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The red word, "mankind" doesn't mean "only Jews". It means EVERYONE. Both Jew and Gentile.

The blue words refer to the fact that everyone is sinful and in need of salvation. Rom 3 proves that very clearly.

Jew + Gentile = "the world"
And that mans everyone. What other group is there?

God NEVER promised to save everybody ever born in the world...
Both Titus 2:11 and 1 Tim 2:3-6 REFUTE you soundly. And you still won't address either one.

He promised to save EVERY CLASS (or peoples) which are
going to be EITHER Jew or Gentile.
And which translation has the words "every class of people"? Quit adding to Scripture what isn't there.

So you have the OT where God was saving Jews
And in the NT God saved Jew and Gentile
Jew + Gentile = "the world"
A statement of ignorance about the OT. Romans gives a very clear picture about Gentiles being saved in the OT.

Romans 10-
11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

The red words prove that salvation is for anyone.
The blue words prove that everyone is saved the same way because there is no difference.

18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”

These 2 verses blow your theories out of the water. They speak directly of Gentiles getting the gospel. And Moses (that's OT, btw) even rubbed it in the Jews in v.19.

If "the world" means everyone ever born on this planet
then there would be nobody in hell.
You simply do not understand the Bible. If Christ hadn't died for any person, that person could NOT have been saved. iow, by dying for everyone, no one has any excuse for not accepting the free gift of salvation.

The sin debt had to be paid BEFORE God could extend His grace. God's justice HAD to be satisfied (propitiated). But it seems you don't understand that fact.

Don't you realize that IF IF IF Christ didn't die for the people who will end up in hell, they would HAVE AN EXCUSE for being there. iow, it wouldn't be their fault.

They could LEGITIMATELY say that they are in hell because Christ didn't die for them, or that God didn't choose them.

Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will understand this. The others won't.

Your theology leads to excuses for being in hell.

The Bible teaches that no one has any excuse.
Rom 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

btw, the "people" in red mean EVERYONE in humanity. No one has an excuse.

But if Christ didn't die for people, THEY WOULD have an excuse.

Again, eyes and ears. How are yours?
 
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FreeGrace2

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Then tell me...

What was the historical fulfillment of Daniel's
"Abomination of Desolation" and WHO "placed" or "set-up"
the Abomination?
.
Your questions are silly. The abomination of desolation is still future, yet you ask about "what WAS" the fulfillment. It hasn't been fulfilled yet.

Obviously you don't understand eschatology.
 
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FreeGrace2

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So you are saying that you teach Daniel's prophecies were
"closed-up" and "sealed" until the "time-of-the-end"?
Yes or No?


WHO are the Saints that "shall understand" Daniel's prophecies,
and WHEN did that happen?


.
You don't respond to my questions. I have no reason to respond to yours.

And they are simply distractions designed to camouflage the fact that you don't understand Scripture.

You still haven't proven your theory about 5 kingdoms. So now you deflect.
 
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FreeGrace2

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So you accept Daniel 12 and you AGREE Daniel's prophecies
were "closed-up" and "sealed" to all Saints til the "time-of-the-end"?

WHEN did they become "revealed"... and to WHO?

(1) I already asked you to explain WHO Daniel's 4 Beasts represent...
so I expect you will be answering that question.

(2) I already asked you to explain WHAT Daniel's "Abomination"
represented and WHO "placed" or "set-up" the AOD...
so I expect you will be answering that question also.

.
And I've asked you a lot of questions that you just won't address.

tit.for.tat.
 
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BBAS 64

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Bill,

Are you saying that the Gospel is presented to some with grace and to others without grace?


Grace is the gift, the God given ability to believe and therefore obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.


JLB

Good Day, JLB

NO the Gospel is preached to all....

Grace is a gift but more so it is the motivation behind the giving of the gift "it is an act of Grace"

To them who believe yes we understand it as the absolute power unto Salvation, to them who are perishing it is "foolishness'"

The question you really have to answer is why do some believe and some do not what quality do they have? Two people hear the same Gospel one believes and the other does not why?

In Him,

Bill
 
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5thKingdom

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You don't address my refutations of your ideas, so why should I respond to any of your questions? And the 4th beast has no relevance to your unbiblical 5 kingdoms notions anyway.

You're just trying to dodge and deflect from your indefensible ideas.



LOL... if you COULD explain the prophecy you WOULD...
but you can't. EXACTLY as Daniel 12:8-10 foretold.


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Good Day, JLB

NO the Gospel is preached to all....

Grace is a gift but more so it is the motivation behind the giving of the gift "it is an act of Grace"

To them who believe yes we understand it as the absolute power unto Salvation, to them who are perishing it is "foolishness'"

The question you really have to answer is why do some believe and some do not what quality do they have? Two people hear the same Gospel one believes and the other does not why?

In Him,

Bill


Bill, first I want to say your previous post was spot on.


The short answer to this question is that some men are "elected"
to be saved (to be one of "His sheep") before the foundation of
the world, based ONLY on God's Good Pleasure and NOT on any
good or evil they would do in their lifetime. Those "elected" or
"chosen" will believe, those who are not elect will NEVER believe
(the true Gospel)... although MANY of them will follow a false
synergistic "gospel", which is the BROAD WAY Christian's take
into destruction, while the monergistic gospel is the narrow way
Christians take into eternal life and FEW find it because...


MANY are called [called by the Gospel]
but FEW are "chosen" [chosen to be saved]


A more detailed answer is found here:


Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth
it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was
sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that
heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root
in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution
ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that
received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the
care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he
becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground
is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth
fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


Jim
 
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5thKingdom

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You don't respond to my questions. I have no reason to respond to yours.

And they are simply distractions designed to camouflage the fact that you don't understand Scripture.

You still haven't proven your theory about 5 kingdoms. So now you deflect.


So you REFUSE to say whether you believe Daniel 12:8-10.
LOL


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Your questions are silly. The abomination of desolation is still future, yet you ask about "what WAS" the fulfillment. It hasn't been fulfilled yet.

Obviously you don't understand eschatology.


The Abomination of Desolation is PAST.
Which all the "ten virgins" understand.

You don't know WHAT it was...
so you cannot know WHEN it was
or WHO "placed" ("set-up") the AOD.

But all of the "ten virgins" understand
as Jesus PROMISED [Mat 24:15] and
all of us PREACH the details of the fulfillment.
(as the Bible PROMISED we would)


.
 
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FreeGrace2

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LOL... if you COULD explain the prophecy you WOULD...
but you can't. EXACTLY as Daniel 12:8-10 foretold.
Silly. Daniel didn't make any prophecies about me.

Again, I'm not going to bow to your distractions and dodging. You have lots of questions to answer.
 
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FreeGrace2

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The Abomination of Desolation is PAST.
Which all the "ten virgins" understand.

You don't know WHAT it was...
so you cannot know WHEN it was
or WHO "placed" ("set-up") the AOD.

But all of the "ten virgins" understand
as Jesus PROMISED [Mat 24:15] and
of of us PREACH the details of the fulfillment.


.
You are truly clueless.
 
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5thKingdom

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Are you well? How would I know the names of ANY Gentile who believed in the Messiah for salvation??


Because the BIBLE tells us their names.
Out of the MILLIONS of Gentiles who lived during
the Jewish (OT) "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
only a couple were saved... and we KNOW their names.


All of the other MILLIONS of Gentiles were NEVER MEANT
to be saved.


So much for your "theory" that Jesus was the Savior
of everyone who ever lived.


The term "the world" means Jew and Gentile.
Jew + Gentile = "the world".


.
 
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