What "trigger warnings" mean to me.

[Cearbhall]

Since she left, I have had to walk out of 2 movies and a play; albeit temporarily, just so I can compose myself again as I get quite bit of flashbacks and anxiety when I see it (as well as when I have discussions about her or self harm generally).

Well yeah, that's what it means. It saddens me that there are people who are so sheltered and/or willfully ignorant that they don't know anything about PTSD (and similar issues) outside of what they've seen Tumblrinas say.

There are certainly people who misuse and overuse the concept of triggers, and I've called more than one person out for that before. But I don't see how anyone can argue that this means it doesn't exist at all.

 

[Gadarene]

Please pardon my ignorance on the matter but how does the term "generalized anxiety" come into play?
I had initially understood it to mean something like a more pervasive anxiety that is always around, as opposed to something that would give pointed full on panic attacks (though I'm sure those do occur). Are GAD anxiety sufferers prone to triggers and frequent anxiety attacks?

It can involve attacks (it does for me) but it’s diagnosed like clinical depression, it’s essentially the presence of a mood of a particular severity and frequency to the point where it impinges on your life. When I was diagnosed it was not-leaving-the-house levels of bad.

But to answer your question...I would start by saying that you make it sound like those people who experience X and can't handle it are happy in that situation and wouldn't change. I don't think many people would choose to be in their state if they could. Even still some people are not ready for change but some people are, you are right.

I divided the two groups up for the sake of formulating the question but you are right, I do realise there will be some overlap.

My criticism is that the preference is completely arbitrary. Instead of slowing down to the pace of the more sensitive people, instead they could be helped to become more resilient. I don’t think the preponderance of trigger warnings is actually going to change these people’s emotional status quo much.

 

[Christie insb]

It can involve attacks (it does for me) but it’s diagnosed like clinical depression, it’s essentially the presence of a mood of a particular severity and frequency to the point where it impinges on your life. When I was diagnosed it was not-leaving-the-house levels of bad.



I divided the two groups up for the sake of formulating the question but you are right, I do realise there will be some overlap.

My criticism is that the preference is completely arbitrary. Instead of slowing down to the pace of the more sensitive people, instead they could be helped to become more resilient. I don’t think the preponderance of trigger warnings is actually going to change these people’s emotional status quo much.

What is the big problem? I assure you these people don't want to have to decide if they need to leave or turn off the radio or whatever. They will do what they can to become more resilient, but it takes time. I hear trigger warnings all the time and I usually don't heed them but I don't find them offensive. And you are not really in a position to help people overcome their PTSD.

 

[keith99]

The backlash against "trigger warnings" happened when their appearance became too common. When it seems you can't have an adult discussion on serious issues without running into at least one, it becomes tiresome.

I think it was more than just that, it was some would denigrate presenters if they missed even the most obscure trigger warning. Never mind that the film already had a dozen, they missed one so they are horrible people.

Nothing wrong with trigger warnings as a courtesy, when someone tries to force them then there is a lot wrong.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There is much a big fuss made of trigger warnings. Generally, it sounds as though they are dismissable, worthless notes meant to coddle and comfort a weaker CLASS of people (usually/presumably these are minorities and/or femininsts and/or women).

There are now times where I appreciate "trigger warnings". I had been working in a treatment centre for youth and we had a self harmer with borderline personality disorder. She ended up targetting me with her mind games (so....things like setting up violent rape scenes in parks, self harming extensively (100s of cuts in a session) and coming out of the her room; cutting the undersides of her tongue and trying to flick blood at me and come at me all bloodied; plus numerous others). She lived at our facility for 8 months; of our staff of 12, 7 of us were put on stress leave because of what she exposed us to). It was a terrible time. These are experiences that people in the REAL WORLD have. Incidents of trauma that affect our/their mental health. These are REAL events. Sometimes it happens due to straight up hatred; some times, it's madness.

I've seen and dealt with a lot of terrible things at my work but this was, kind of, beyond the pale. We were told, in no uncertain words that are ONLY job was to "keep her alive". It was desperation level 500.

Since she left, I have had to walk out of 2 movies and a play; albeit temporarily, just so I can compose myself again as I get quite bit of flashbacks and anxiety when I see it (as well as when I have discussions about her or self harm generally). I went back in to the movies and the play (though in the play, the topic kinda hung around ot the end...so I didn't enjoy it as much).

The common argument against these groups is in regards to the idea that people don't "need coddling". We don't take children from abusive homes and argue they don't "need coddling"; we don't welcome soldiers home who have seen combat and suggest to them that they need to buck up. Society has come FAR enough along to recognize that, post trauma, a little TLC is necessary for care and healing of others. And yet if the "average person" suffers from trauma, there is a skepticism rooted around that.

And so I would start addressing that by taking a step back and considering why these people feel they need a "safe space" at all (ie...not whether they SHOULD HAVE access to one, but just that they think they NEED one). In the same way we need to remember that Hitler was not a monster but was just a human, we need to remember that victims of trauma are regular humans. And chances are that they also have been victim to some kind of trauma or significant injustice (does the latter require a safe space? Or a trigger warning, that's another discussion).

I don't feel I need to be "coddled" per se. But at the same time, I have seen things that you have NOT seen. Nor things I would want you to see. I have felt helpless feelings that you have not felt in those moments. For me, a trigger warning gives me a chance to reflect and think about whether this play/song/activity/art whatever is something I am ready and able to consume or participate in right at this time. Am I going to have to suffer through my memories of this bloody faced girl clawing at me while two characters in a play compare self harm scars? Is that gonna bother me all night? With a PTSD sufferer, is that kinda thing then, going to affect me for several days after?

Trigger warnings allow "compromised people" the opportunity to make more informed decisions around their capacity to see things that may be upsetting for them. I fail to see why that is a bad thing.

On news and radio broadcasts we have anchors saying "And a warning, some details may be offensive...". So they give trigger warnings to the whole population with the news: There is a reason for that. Probably because the world is full of @#%@#$$ up @@#%@#% and people aren't used to seeing all that stuff.
And when people see that stuff, they are affected by it.

Were trigger warnings actually proposed by people who have some issue with dealing with real trauma...I'd agree completely. Unfortunately, it seems that 99% of the time they are created for people who wish to equate their personal issues with "trauma".

As for safe spaces...they already exist...it's called home. People who have experienced trauma have support groups and such. The problem occurs when groups, often students, try to equate their reality with trauma...as if it's "traumatic" to be around white people or straight people, etc.

 

[rambot]

Were trigger warnings actually proposed by people who have some issue with dealing with real trauma...I'd agree completely.

BAM! There it is. The assumption that they have NOT dealt with real trauma. You have NOTHING to base that on as a generalized comment about trigger warnings and yet....

Unfortunately, it seems that 99% of the time they are created for people who wish to equate their personal issues with "trauma".

And yet you know the circumstance of how many people who have wanted to start up safe spaces? You are aware of mistreatment or traumatic events that they have gone through.

As for safe spaces...they already exist...it's called home.

To be clear, you are suggesting that those with compromised mental health have to stay at home. It's not that we couldn't, you know, let them have something that has EXACTLY 0 impact on YOUR life, they have to cater to your annoyance?
It sounds to me like you are annoyed by whiners, essentially. Guess what: Me too! Totally me too. Whiners are the worst.
But to really know if someone is a whiner, you have to get a sense of what they have been through. I would just be really, REALLY slow (personally) to argue that minorities who are a part of a support group are whiners SIMPLY because "well geez...it was JUST RACISM. Get over it!"

People who have experienced trauma have support groups and such. The problem occurs when groups, often students, try to equate their reality with trauma...as if it's "traumatic" to be around white people or straight people, etc.

I can think of a dozen instances where it WOULD be traumatic to be around white people/straight people.


What I hear you say (if I can read between the lines) is that you think it's ridiculous that people have been traumatized by racism and homophobia. Is that, essentially, the summation of your argument?

 

[rambot]

It can involve attacks (it does for me) but it’s diagnosed like clinical depression, it’s essentially the presence of a mood of a particular severity and frequency to the point where it impinges on your life. When I was diagnosed it was not-leaving-the-house levels of bad.

Thank you for answering me as you did.

I divided the two groups up for the sake of formulating the question but you are right, I do realise there will be some overlap.

My criticism is that the preference is completely arbitrary. Instead of slowing down to the pace of the more sensitive people, instead they could be helped to become more resilient. I don’t think the preponderance of trigger warnings is actually going to change these people’s emotional status quo much.

I don't think it IS arbitrary. Trying to tack more on to people who are not emotionally ready to deal with it can have really disastrous consequences.
The trigger warnings themselves are NOT meant (in my mind) to change anything. It is meant only to inform people of what they could experience.

But I DO agree with you in terms of the "slow pace" of treatment. And I WORRY about people who are stuck and NOT progressing. But I DO accept that everyone deals with their pain at different speeds for a myriad number of reasons but it is frustrating (esp. as a helper of that clientele) to see people stalled and having a difficult time getting past it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Significant incidents of racist abuse, to me are certainly within the trauma lens. As is the treatment of some gay people by some straight people. EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT? Well, I couldn't speak to that.
But I'm not going to give a blanket statement one way or another.

So theoretically, if you were, for example, a white guy who owned a convenience store...and it's been robbed multiple times by people of color...you would be right to ask for a "whites only" safe space?

99% of the time they are created for people?

Well, i'd wager 100% of the time you know nothing about the people's experience who are starting those groups. So it seems presumptuous to assume they haven't experienced significant trauma.

Uh huh...you got me there. I don't know what kind of traumatic experiences people have gone through. I do know that you don't strap you into movies and make you watch them....or force you to listen to a particular radio station....or anything else like that....so I don't really see the point. Something you're observing troubles you? Stop watching. That's a really easy fix that doesn't involve shaming the person who made the content without considering your personal hang ups.

 

[rambot]

Sorry Ana. I edited my post while you posted that one.

So theoretically, if you were, for example, a white guy who owned a convenience store...and it's been robbed multiple times by people of color...you would be right to ask for a "whites only" safe space?

Theoretically? Depending on where and how that would come into play, yeah, I don't think that's too outlandish. But that depends on whether race played a significant role in the crime or in their treatment of you while the crime is committed. Also, if that's happenning and you're having trouble handling it, you gotta get a different job. Mental health is preeeeetty important.

It's unreasonable to expect your convinience store to ONLY serve white people though, if you thought that was the answer.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sorry Ana. I edited my post while you posted that one.

Well poop, you want me to reply to the edited version as well?

Theoretically? Depending on where and how that would come into play, yeah, I don't think that's too outlandish. But that depends on whether race played a significant role in the crime or in their treatment of you while the crime is committed. Also, if that's happenning and you're having trouble handling it, you gotta get a different job. Mental health is preeeeetty important.

So toughen up buttercup? I also I don't see how "racial treatment" factors into this. PTSD doesn't have some rational component to it. Some soldier who breaks into a sweat every time a shopping bag blows across the road in front of him, he may rationally know there's no bomb in it. Similarly, if three black guys wearing hoodies point guns in your face and ask you to empty the drawer...a black guy in a hoodie might set you off.

It's unreasonable to expect your convinience store to ONLY serve white people though, if you thought that was the answer.

I don't think I expected any answer...I just think it's a horrible idea. We shouldn't start carving out segregated sections of any public space. If we want people to be able to live together...we have to put them together.

 

[Ana the Ist]

BAM! There it is. The assumption that they have NOT dealt with real trauma. You have NOTHING to base that on as a generalized comment about trigger warnings and yet....

YOU DIDN'T WARN ME ABOUT YOUR USAGE OF "BAM"!! IN ALL CAPS! IM SENSITIVE TO BEING SHOUTED IN INTERNET FORUMS!

Now...you may have suspected that I just made that up as an attempt to shame you and declare victimhood (and thereby moral superiority)...but you don't "know" what kind of trauma I've been through...

And yet you know the circumstance of how many people who have wanted to start up safe spaces? You are aware of mistreatment or traumatic events that they have gone through.

I've heard enough to know it's bunk.

To be clear, you are suggesting that those with compromised mental health have to stay at home.

Actually, I would suggest they seek help. The world cannot, nor should it, be made "safe"...every time you step out your door there's a possibility of trauma.

I'm merely suggesting that if the big bad world is too much for you...you can always stay home.

It's not that we couldn't, you know, let them have something that has EXACTLY 0 impact on YOUR life, they have to cater to your annoyance?

If it's public space...I'm paying for it. It shouldn't be able to exclude me. Your claims to safety end where my rights begin

It sounds to me like you are annoyed by whiners, essentially. Guess what: Me too! Totally me too. Whiners are the worst.
But to really know if someone is a whiner, you have to get a sense of what they have been through. I would just be really, REALLY slow (personally) to argue that minorities who are a part of a support group are whiners SIMPLY because "well geez...it was JUST RACISM. Get over it!"

Are we talking about private support groups? Or safe spaces in public?

I can think of a dozen instances where it WOULD be traumatic to be around white people/straight people.

And yet for all the horrors and violence of the most gang ridden minority communities in the nation...I've never heard anyone from them say "man...I really need a safe space from all these (fill in the blank) people!"

What I hear you say (if I can read between the lines) is that you think it's ridiculous that people have been traumatized by racism and homophobia. Is that, essentially, the summation of your argument?

I think the idea that words are violence is a reckless exaggeration and it leads to some pretty bad places...yeah.

 

[MehGuy]

My main problem with trigger warnings is that it seems to be another mostly female oriented emotional masochistic outlet. Would be interesting if someone conducted a study about whether or not women who ask for trigger warnings actually leave when such warnings are given, lol. Growing up in a mostly female numbered household I was exposed to a lot of female content such as the Lifetime channel. Pretty much filled with films about women being raped/domestically abused and lingering on and on about how much victims they are. Scenes of bondage and other things that are pretty reminiscent of a lot romance novels. To me the insistence of trigger warnings are mostly being inspired by women who want to make the film/television show/etc seem more traumatic than it probably is. To further their ever increasingly bizarre emotional masochistic fix.

Also what kind of trigger warnings would be acceptable to these people? I know for many men they'd probably want to request a trigger warning for scenes of women accusing men of sexual misconduct. Sadly I have a hard time believing such warnings would be honored by a crowd that probably contains many "listen and believe" proponents. We must cater to the fragile women who can't handle certain scenes in films yet a guy should be strong enough to accept that everyone should listen and believe the proposed victim when an accusation is made about him. Many of whom I've seen say that men should be able to easily get over it if the claims have been proven to be false, lol. For those people, I have no qualms about not accepting their "trigger warnings" even if they legitimately do have PTSD.

 

[Gadarene]

I don’t know if I’d describe them as being used by one particular group, but it is certainly true that having gendered and racialise trigger warnings certain groups have far greater ability to successfully deploy demands for trigger warnings than others.

 

[Gadarene]

Thank you for answering me as you did.

Eh, nbd, I have no issues talking about it.

I don't think it IS arbitrary. Trying to tack more on to people who are not emotionally ready to deal with it can have really disastrous consequences.
The trigger warnings themselves are NOT meant (in my mind) to change anything. It is meant only to inform people of what they could experience.

But if people are having these issues, simply giving them the option to decide usually will not move them forward. This is why I say this isn’t going to change people’s mental status quo.

But I’m not saying we force things on people. Rather we simply actively encourage them rather than leave someone with an altered and possibly irrational mood with the decision of how to manage that mood. I know I don’t get anywhere with my anxiety by constantly giving in to it. In those moods, I won’t make rational decisions. The best thing to do is challenge the negative mood. I’ve made most progress when I have people around me remind me that my brain tends to go off on one on certain things. If it was up to anxious Gadarene to decide everything I’d never get anything done.

This is assuming the people involved have actual issues, however. I think there is something likely wrong with people who go around demanding them for trivialities, just not what they claim is wrong with them - and I wonder how many of them have faddishly self-diagnosed.

 

[rambot]

My main problem with trigger warnings is that it seems to be another mostly female oriented emotional masochistic outlet. Would be interesting if someone conducted a study about whether or not women who ask for trigger warnings actually leave when such warnings are given, lol. Growing up in a mostly female numbered household I was exposed to a lot of female content such as the Lifetime channel. Pretty much filled with films about women being raped/domestically abused and lingering on and on about how much victims they are. Scenes of bondage and other things that are pretty reminiscent of a lot romance novels. To me the insistence of trigger warnings are mostly being inspired by women who want to make the film/television show/etc seem more traumatic than it probably is. To further their ever increasingly bizarre emotional masochistic fix.

So there is some kind of broken aspect about women that means they ENJOY being "triggered".
I wonder then if women also, secretly like being raped. And then maybe they also secretly like the PTSD that comes along with that kind of trauma.

It is pretty acceptable knowledge that 15ish% of women (minimally) are victims of rape and almost 1/3 of some kind of sexual assault.
And then, when a portion of the population voices concerns for thing that would help them cope, suddently they are NOT dealing with these, they are making it up/exaggerating/getting off on their "trauma"

Also what kind of trigger warnings would be acceptable to these people? I know for many men they'd probably want to request a trigger warning for scenes of women accusing men of sexual misconduct.

1) No they wouldn't. 2) "Many" is meaningless. 3) I actually HAD an allegation put against me in my old job. As horrifying and soul crushing as that experience and the resulting investigation was, it was not "traumatic" in the same way that my traumatic experiences were.

Sadly I have a hard time believing such warnings would be honored by a crowd that probably contains many "listen and believe" proponents. We must cater to the fragile women who can't handle certain scenes in films yet a guy should be strong enough to accept that everyone should listen and believe the proposed victim when an accusation is made about him. Many of whom I've seen say that men should be able to easily get over it if the claims have been proven to be false, lol. For those people, I have no qualms about not accepting their "trigger warnings" even if they legitimately do have PTSD.

Honestly, your use of the word "many" throughout this post and topic in general is a baseless attempt to try to give your point more gravitas.

 

[Gadarene]

So there is some kind of broken aspect about women that means they ENJOY being "triggered".
I wonder then if women also, secretly like being raped. And then maybe they also secretly like the PTSD that comes along with that kind of trauma.

I mean rape fantasies are one of the most common fantasies women have. I think also a lot of women leverage ‘they hurt my feelings’ to get what they want. The number of times women - especially the activist sort who would go around demanding trigger warnings etc - have freaked out when they are spoken to the way they speak to men is ridiculous. As I said earlier, there is an emotional incontinence you see far, far more often in women than in men. Men don’t go around demanding this stuff because they’re just expected to get on with it - even though they may also be affected by the same issues - sometimes more so than women are!

It is pretty acceptable knowledge that 15ish% of women (minimally) are victims of rape and almost 1/3 of some kind of sexual assault.
And then, when a portion of the population voices concerns for thing that would help them cope, suddently they are NOT dealing with these, they are making it up/exaggerating/getting off on their "trauma"

‘Women demand this treatment why won’t you listen to them!’

1) No they wouldn't. 2) "Many" is meaningless. 3) I actually HAD an allegation put against me in my old job. As horrifying and soul crushing as that experience and the resulting investigation was, it was not "traumatic" in the same way that my traumatic experiences were.

Next sentence

“lol no men don’t need this’

Consistency is nice yo

Honestly, your use of the word "many" throughout this post and topic in general is a baseless attempt to try to give your point more gravitas.

Or maybe it’s just an unspecific qualifier. Or maybe he’s trying to avoid making the same mistake so many - yourself included, it would seem - have made and try and speak for all men, or ‘men’ without qualifier (which is basically the same thing).

 

[rambot]

But if people are having these issues, simply giving them the option to decide usually will not move them forward. This is why I say this isn’t going to change people’s mental status quo.

This is 100% speculation though. You know that right? While I would argue that it CAN, a good therapist (which is something people should be seeking; what kind of support exists for people in the US though...) would point that out to someone and use motivational interviewing to judge where they are on their journey to change and perhaps put them in the right mindset to do it. To think someone would stay at the same level of trauma if they are/have been receiving support for it is a bit perposterous.

But I’m not saying we force things on people. Rather we simply actively encourage them rather than leave someone with an altered and possibly irrational mood with the decision of how to manage that mood. I know I don’t get anywhere with my anxiety by constantly giving in to it. In those moods, I won’t make rational decisions. The best thing to do is challenge the negative mood. I’ve made most progress when I have people around me remind me that my brain tends to go off on one on certain things. If it was up to anxious Gadarene to decide everything I’d never get anything done.

I have worked with PLENTY of people who CANNOT conquer their anxiety whatsoever. It's not that they don't want to; it's that they cannot.
You experience with GAD seems pretty...great. You have the capacity to overcome your thoughts. But you are assuming that the intrusiveness of your thoughts is at the same level as it is for everyone else. And I can concretely say that is not true.

This is assuming the people involved have actual issues, however. I think there is something likely wrong with people who go around demanding them for trivialities, just not what they claim is wrong with them - and I wonder how many of them have faddishly self-diagnosed.

Not many things bother me as much as people who self diagnose. To me THAT, is some serious some bearing the victim blanket too heavily.[/QUOTE]

 

[Gadarene]

I don’t think I could have asked for a more timely demonstration of how only certain groups get to use trigger warnings in this way.

 

[rambot]

I mean rape fantasies are one of the most common fantasies women have.

False, besides, a "fantasy" is not necessarily something you want to happen in real life: Here's What Women Fantasize About The Most

I think also a lot of women leverage ‘they hurt my feelings’ to get what they want.

"a lot"? Gravitas? I think VERY VERY few women/people do that.


The number of times women - especially the activist sort who would go around demanding trigger warnings etc - have freaked out when they are spoken to the way they speak to men is ridiculous. As I said earlier, there is an emotional incontinence you see far, far more often in women than in men.
You know that women used to behave that way too. And then people started to realize the scope of the problem and thought hey, maybe this doesn't work and maybe we need to change as a society.

Men don’t go around demanding this stuff because they’re just expected to get on with it - even though they may also be affected by the same issues - sometimes more so than women are!

I'm not sure if it's you but in one thread, I hear people trotting out that men more often commit suicide than women. But here it seems that you are advocating that the way men cope with their problems is more adventageous?

Next sentence

“lol no men don’t need this’

Consistency is nice yo

So I would point out I was talking about myself and not generalizing for all men. I was speaking, for myself, more of the nature of the trauma causing event; not the response to trauma that a given gender may have.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

It is pretty simple to me. I don't get wound up over what other people need unless they have the temerity to admonish strangers for not meeting those needs. I was diagnosed with PTSD at 19, due to my childhood being a black hole of trauma. While I appreciate the idea of trigger warnings, they weren't commonplace when I matured, and I survived.

Honestly, most of my triggers were harmless objects and activities to people not acquainted with my history and could not be easily avoided. Being exposed to those sorts of triggers over time in neutral environments helped more than avoidance did - but it was also painful & embarrassing and I can understand people not wanting to.create spectacles because of their pain.

But like I said- if people offer trigger warnings - great. If they don't - you don't have a right to demand them.