What to say to a sister who attends multiple churches and small groups?

Gregory95 · Feb 14, 2019

I understand your frustration would be hard pressed to not be in that situation however you must not let the flesh puff up and compare what you do to others in regards to the work put in.

As for when they are reached out to is the conversation started with where are you or why ain't you helping . it should start with kindness example my friend we miss you and love you please tell us what troubles you so we may by Christs power help.

True common curtisoy they should let someone know before disappearing however something horrific may have happened and their natural response is to shut down and shut out

PeterJames0510 said:
Absolutely, you need to worry about people in general. But in terms of the 'slack you have to pick up ...'

Frankly, I'm tired. Tired of picking up everybody's slack, trying to work two jobs, take care of my family, be a deacon at a church, etc. and then having to pick up more slack from people who don't want to do work and decide not to tell us they are quitting. At least have the decency to tell us you quit.

Then we call and ask what happened and we're told - 'Stay out of my business.'

So it's not just the people who are in the boat rowing; it's also the people forced to row harder, my friend.

New Birth · Feb 14, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
So then your condemning the original poster for asking the question? I wouldn't go so far even if I disagree and am in the minority of opinions ...

condemning not at all. Not sure why you would start that narrative. The poster wants advise, Im just trying to answer with real world answers.

PeterJames0510 · Feb 14, 2019

New Birth said:
condemning not at all. Not sure why you would start that narrative. The poster wants advise, Im just trying to answer with real world answers.

It sounded as if the OP was being condemned for bringing up the question. I apologize if that was not your intent.

I think the question should be explored with all possible answers; your opinion is as valid as another as long as you're not trying to make people feel guilty for not agreeing with it.

New Birth · Feb 14, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
It sounded as if the OP was being condemned for bringing up the question. I apologize if that was not your intent.

I think the question should be explored with all possible answers; your opinion is as valid as another as long as you're not trying to make people feel guilty for not agreeing with it.

So the question is "what do i do in this situation" and I would also say 1. are you in a place of authority to correct guest in the church and not members? 2. Have you talked to the Pastor about your concern? 3. Why would you think its your business to correct the behavior of a visitor? 4. are visitors able to come and go as they please in your church, if not why not?
5. do you understand your frustration will spill over into the congregation and will create gossip and tension between this visitor and the rest of the church. 6. Do you know that tension will cause the church body to want to reject the visitor rather than to welcome her and will cause the guest to not feel welcome at your church.

Gregory95 · Feb 14, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
Let's start back at the beginning of this conversation.

From your understanding of the Scriptures, what is the purpose of baptism?

From my understanding, Baptism is a fulfillment of the Great Commission. Jesus is speaking to His first church, the original 12 Apostles. What does He say to them?

Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Here, the pattern is established. 'Teach all nations ...' Why? So they may believe.

Secondly, baptize in the name of the Trinity ...

Third, teach them to observe ... how can they be taught? Why would they flounder or go church to church? The original apostles stayed faithful to the first church with Jesus as their Shepherd. How else can one be discipled except with other faithful believers?

The Baptism, in this verse, is an identification of who they are; but it comes after belief and before discipleship.

Believe and be baptized we agree . who has the right to say one who believes isn't worthy of baptism because they won't join the denomination you are I speak in general not at you. Look at the NT people believe ask to be baptized and as soon as possible they are in Christs name to honour Christ is to honour the Father 3 are 1 thus its okay to baptize in Christs name BUT we have drifted from the OP open invitation for you to PM me to speak on other matters please address what I've said in multiple posts on what the OP is about.
.

Acts 19:1-41
And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

New Birth · Feb 14, 2019

Gregory95 said:
Believe and be baptized we agree . who has the right to say one who believes isn't worthy of baptism because they won't join the denomination you are I speak in general not at you. Look at the NT people believe ask to be baptized and as soon as possible they are in Christs name to honour Christ is to honour the Father 3 are 1 thus its okay to baptize in Christs name BUT we have drifted from the OP open invitation for you to PM me to speak on other matters please address what I've said in multiple posts on what the OP is about.
.

Acts 19:1-41
And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

I believe in Jesus name Baptism. If you create a thread I will definitely engage if I find it.

Gregory95 · Feb 14, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
It sounded as if the OP was being condemned for bringing up the question. I apologize if that was not your intent.

I think the question should be explored with all possible answers; your opinion is as valid as another as long as you're not trying to make people feel guilty for not agreeing with it.

Also we must all come to the same agreement, Bible is the Word of God thus any idea must be grounded in it and able to stand up to Scripture . we all SHOULD be seeking TRUTH. May the Holy Ghost guide us and not the will of man.

RickardoHolmes · Feb 14, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
Frankly, I'm tired. Tired of picking up everybody's slack, trying to work two jobs, take care of my family, be a deacon at a church, etc. and then having to pick up more slack from people who don't want to do work and decide not to tell us they are quitting. At least have the decency to tell us you quit.

Then we call and ask what happened and we're told - 'Stay out of my business.'

Why does this happen? Pm me if u want

mreeed · Feb 14, 2019

I think there is more than one way to look at this, and a layered approach is helpful, and we will likely find more points in common with each other. In an individual situation, no problem is necessarily presented, at least at the outset. We generally want to assume the best at first and consider the various seasons a 'floater' or 'bouncer' person may be in. For the purposes of this discussion, it may help to think of floating (toward) as trying to decide or divide participation between presumably good options in different places, whereas bouncing (away) as trying to avoid some aspect of church, spirituality, or discipline (possibly not even realizing it). We cannot assume what is going on at an individual level, though if a particular sin or character defect becomes an issue those in closeness or authority may see fit to bring it up with that person in love one on one.

But if it is a pattern in the congregation, especially a spreading pattern, in a particular church or community which PeterJames alludes to, though OP doesn't seem to, I can see why it would be discouraging and it is worth discussing how to fix it and still on point to round out this thread. I'm not sure how much of this can be fixed at the individual level.

More work on less people can lead to resentment and/or more quitting, which tends to continue its cycle. Perhaps there needs to be more of a focus on the essentials, and less on programs that don't have the resources to continue running them. My one pastor makes it a point to emphasize that the church is the people (and does not hinge on him) and programs are limited and more related to peoples' initiative, which he will support as appropriate. Giving us more time to focus on personal relational ministry.

Jesus says his yoke is easy and his burden is light. This is no trite statement; Jesus did not live an easy life, and it could well be said he carried the weight of the world on his shoulders. He was(is) God and also human, but not superhuman. Sometimes he was tired and left the crowds to be replenished by His Father. God knows what we need, and knows we need rest. Other times despite Jesus' tiredness and wanting that respite from the constant crowds, we see his compassion (not, it would seem, his sense of duty) on the multitudes overcoming what he felt physically. His yoke for us is His 'servant-brother' calling on us as His Body, using His strength. But the fellowship of the Father (except at the cross) was His life, and the joy set before him was enough, and he fulfilled His calling.

We are sharing in Him for the joy set before us also. The Lord sees your faithful service whether in public or in secret, and He will reward you. (He is your first allegiance, not the physical church.) Sometimes it is hard to actually grasp the promise of eternal reward as reality in the sense of living like it's so. Like the tale told of the man traveling some ages ago to claim a rich inheritance, but having his carriage break down. Will we still carry on in joy knowing what is waiting for us which can far more than make up for any lack, or will we focus only on the setback in front of us? If we can discover and cultivate this kind of Kingdom culture, we may find more people want to stick around to be a part of it.

So then: How do we live and inspire a culture of joy in the service of the Lord?

PeterJames0510 · Feb 14, 2019

I definitely confess a terrible attitude toward the church bouncer based on previously bad experiences that I have had. My personal convictions are IFB, but I can definitely see where membership what ifs and what if nots are extremely tiring after a while and I envy those churches with open membership and faith in God.

Archivist · Feb 14, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
1. She is being a discouragement to smaller churches who rely on attendance to breathe purpose and life into the assembly; a church is not some sort of social club. It is like a "ship" in this desert world of sin; the "ship" has a destination and the members of that body have the gifts given to them by God to steer the boat in the right direction and throw life racks out to those who would come.

But when the people attending are not regularly attending but jumping from one place to another, you discourage the Pastor who loves them and sees them floundering, you discourage the people who want to see their church grow both spiritually and numerically, and you place yourself outside the "the gates shall not prevail against it" promise. I understand if you believe in a universal, invisible church (as I do not) - then that last part is not a problem.

2. I have a problem with it because I can see this lack in the people of our own church. I wish I could go into more details, but I don't really want to on a public feed. The bottom line is, I've been burned one too many times by people who 'committed' themselves to certain tasks around the church and later decided - I'm not going to do them and I'm not going to tell you I'm not going to do them anymore and I'm going to go off to other churches and work for them. All ... not telling anyone what is going on.

Then you've got the people who say, 'Since I don't want to be like those other Christians, I'm just not going to do anything at all. I'm going to show up to church, pay an offering, and let others feed me rather than I actually do anything. This way no one can accuse me of not doing something I said I would do ... since I've decided not to do anything.'

So, if this woman wants to continue going church to church, it's fine. But if I were the Pastor (thank God I never will be) and she came up and asked if she could work for the church - I'd say - maybe. Let's talk about what a commitment to a local church is first.

You are talking about people who I presume are members of your church deciding not to do things they promised to do and going off to other churches. As I understand the OP this woman isn’t a member. That is a different situation then what you are describing.

So, how do you deal with this? Do you only allow someone to visit your church a certain number of times and tell them that after that number of visits they have to either join or go elsewhere? That wouldn’t happen at my church.

BTW , you are talking with someone who is a past president of church council. That is pretty much a full time job. So yes, I am used to memberrs who commit and then back out. That happens when you deal with volunteers. You just deal with it.

PeterJames0510 · Feb 14, 2019

Archivist said:
You are talking about people who I presume are members of your church deciding not to do things they promised to do and going off to other churches. As I understand the OP this woman isn’t a member. That is a different situation then what you are describing.

So, how do you deal with this? Do you only allow someone to visit your church a certain number of times and tell them that after that number of visits they have to either join or go elsewhere? That wouldn’t happen at my church.

BTW , you are talking with someone who is a past president of church council. That is pretty much a full time job. So yes, I am used to memberrs who commit and then back out. That happens when you deal with volunteers. You just deal with it.

I admit there's a little bit more I am holding back, but have found someone to discuss it in pm.

Suffice to say, I apologize that my sour attitude in ministry tainted my beliefs on the intent of the particular person mentioned in the original post.

RickardoHolmes · Feb 14, 2019

To The OP How about saying this

"Sister _____ I love it when you are here with us. You bring so much insight and talent and we are so happy to have you here. I am so Thankful to God for sending you into my life. God Loves you and I love you. "

Leave it at that

danbuter · Mar 19, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
Absolutely, you need to worry about people in general. But in terms of the 'slack you have to pick up ...'

Frankly, I'm tired. Tired of picking up everybody's slack, trying to work two jobs, take care of my family, be a deacon at a church, etc. and then having to pick up more slack from people who don't want to do work and decide not to tell us they are quitting. At least have the decency to tell us you quit.

Then we call and ask what happened and we're told - 'Stay out of my business.'

So it's not just the people who are in the boat rowing; it's also the people forced to row harder, my friend.

It's not people's jobs to do extra work at church. It's their job to show up and worship Jesus. If they want to volunteer for extra duties, great! You can't expect anyone to do more than show up on Sunday, though. Any further expectations are completely on you, not them.

PeterJames0510 · Mar 19, 2019

danbuter said:
It's not people's jobs to do extra work at church. It's their job to show up and worship Jesus. If they want to volunteer for extra duties, great! You can't expect anyone to do more than show up on Sunday, though. Any further expectations are completely on you, not them.

Wow. I highly disagree with you.

Church isn't an entertainment night club where you get to come in, pay a cover fee for the place, and enjoy the entertainment that you call 'worship.'

According to 1 Cor 12 - every single Christian has been given a spiritual gift to exercise in the context of the local church. If they are just seat warmers, then they are not using the gifts God expects them to use in the body.

Also, isn't there some rule that says if a thread is dead - don't resurrect it. You've just brought up old hurts.

Albion · Mar 19, 2019

PeterJames0510 said:
Church isn't an entertainment night club where you get to come in, pay a cover fee for the place, and enjoy the entertainment that you call 'worship.'

On the other hand, I didn't find any of that in the post being replied to.

The person who comes to church for fellowship, instruction, and worship is certainly in step with the Biblical admonitions that deal with this issue. IF he absolutely refuses to participate in any other of the congregational activities, there might be an issue, but there isn't one based upon what has been said since the thread was re-started.

PeterJames0510 · Mar 19, 2019

Albion said:
On the other hand, I didn't find any of that in the post being replied to.

The person who comes to church for fellowship, instruction, and worship is certainly in step with the Biblical admonitions that deal with this issue. IF he absolutely refuses to participate in any other of the congregational activities, there might be an issue, but there isn't one based upon what has been said since the thread was re-started.

I guess I was negatively replying to someone who saw how busy I was an insisted I do all the work of the church while everyone else gets to come in, sit down, make a mess, leave, and complain.

Thankfully, that hasn't happened in our church for quite a while (people complaining about stuff they're not willing to do that is). So it's a non-issue ... at least today.

Archivist · Mar 19, 2019

Remember, this is Christian Advice. We cannot debate matters here, we are simply to offer advice to the OP.

PeterJames0510 · Mar 19, 2019

Archivist said:
Remember, this is Christian Advice. We cannot debate matters here, we are simply to offer advice to the OP.

I'll drop it at this point since I'm quite upset at the unprovoked exchange.

Andrew77 · Mar 20, 2019

sccs said:
Recently, a sister joined our Bible study group but only sporadically. After a few months, we reached out to her because we had heard through mutual acquaintances that she has been attending other small groups and other churches in the area as well.

When the issue was brought to her attention, she responded by saying that church is not just one building or one congregation (which I tend to agree with) but rather it is whenever 2 or more believers come together to pray. She desires to grow and connect with the body of Christ as a whole. Therefore, she attends two churches regularly, is connected to at least three small groups as well as Bible Study Fellowship (BSF), PRISM, and Intervarsity on a local college campus. She says she strongly believes in the body of Christ.

Now, that is all fine and dandy but my view point differs a bit. I believe that though we do subscribe to a concept of the global Church at large, that there is benefit to committing and rooting oneself in a local church, submitting to its teachings, knowing its people, and being known by them as well. However, this seems to fall of deaf ears.

What are your thoughts and how can I speak to this sister about this issue? She comes to our small group fairly regularly but there are times when she doesn't come for months and will sporadically come to our church service.

I would not speak to her about this issue. I see no real issue from your perspective.

She is not engaged in sin, so there is nothing to confront.

She is simply attending more than one church.

That just isn't something worth confronting. If she was living with her boyfriend, that's something to confront.

I don't see anything here worth spending your time on.

Now I wouldn't suggest someone do this. It's hard to grow a deep community, when you are part of multiple communities. But that isn't something you are here to correct. That's on her to determine that for herself.

My main point is, if you are going to confront something, and put in the energy to have this kind of an argument, make sure it is something worth putting the energy into.

If she was doing something that could send her to hell for eternity, then yes you need to step it up and confront her. But this isn't that, or anything close to that, or even something that is actually wrong.

Let it go. Be a good brother, and just care about your sister in the faith. That's what I would do.

What to say to a sister who attends multiple churches and small groups?

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