What to do about my daughter???

[DixieNurse]

Hey y'all,

At the risk of sounding like a bad parent, I'm just gonna say this the only way I know how. My phone bill (mobile, and house phone) for last month is $1700.00. Yeah, you read that right--$1700.00, and in reviewing the thing, I see that my 14 year old daughter has been texting and talking to God-knows-who all hours of the day and night, and I didn't know it...


Our cell phones are with Cingular wireless, through Bellsouth, and we have a family plan--4 phones for a flat rate, with 850 minutes, unlimited nights and weekends. After we got our phones, I called and had the long distance taken off the house phone, as we didn't need it anymore--all in the interest of lowering our phone bills, and getting everybody a new phone.


OK, here's the thing: Even though we had a meeting beforehand about the rules for phone usage, etc., my daughter quickly showed that she was irresponsible with hers, and got it taken away.


This was late January, and now I know why she's been so good about it: She'd been using the house phone!! We've since taken it out of the house, btw.


Turns out that she and her little friends text boys--any boys anywhere, all hours of the day or night, but Mary has never been allowed to talk to boys on the phone. I had no idea that girls did this, until after the phone bill came, and I looked at her cell phone.


Long story short, there were a bunch of numbers on there from everywhere--everywhere, and the messages ranged from 'hey babe', to 'your mama's a you know what', etc. (They just don't know.)


The phone bill had two numbers on it--one from somewhere in Detroit, which only seemed to last about 3 days worth of all night conversation, and the other was from a town in central Mississippi--395 calls to this number.


So I called both numbers. They were both young men--the first one was 18, and the second 21. When I talked to the first guy, (told him I was her), after sweet-talking his name and address out of him (so I could "mail him something"), he started in with some of the creepiest mess you ever heard, and it was then I told him who I really was, and how old MM was, and not to EVER call this number again, and btw, I KNOW your name and where you work, and where you live, and you can BE expecting a visit from the police real soon, and on and on and on. I could almost see his facial expression go from whatever it was, to something WAY on the other side of upset. (hate it for him--NOT)


Nexxxttt...I called the other number--the one with so many calls on it, and did the same thing. This guy was well-spoken, super nice--not at all what I expected, and when I gave him the "come to Jesus" speech, he apologized--he admitted he was 21, and said that she had told him that she was 17--had sent him a message by mistake, etc. He went on to give me his address, and his father's address, and where he worked, and that at first, he did flirt with her over the phone, but the minute he found out she was 14, he backed WAY off, and told her so. Looking at the phone bill, I see that his story checks out.


Apparently, they had been talking day and night on the phone--bellsouth DID turn off the long distance on our calling plan, however, every call which was made had a premium rate--very much like long distance calls placed from a hotel, which is why the bill is so high.


But all that aside (plus the fact that it took me three days to tell my husband), here's what REALLY bothers me: She doesn't seem the least bit remorseful for this.


This happened last week, and because my husband and I have both been working so much, and we had both a family reunion (my side), and a death in the family (his side) since then, we've only been able to go over this with the kids tonight, and she didn't have anything to say for herself!


We grounded her from everything but oxygen, but she seems curiously unfazed--bear in mind that she's USUALLY a good kid--good grades, no trouble at school, never anything like this.


It boils down to this: How in the world can I punish this child for this? How do I make her understand the gravity of the situation--not just the money, but the disobedience, and the fact that she (thank GOD), had been talking to a young man who didn't want to rape her or worse!


Y'all can't know how guilty I feel about all this--how in the world did this get past us?? I knew she had been awfully tired lately--not wanting to get up for school, etc., but I had no idea...


Thoughts please--I need some perspective here, and don't be afraid to tell me the truth. (And YEAH, I know I never come over here 'til I need something...kindly forgive that.)


Thank you much,
Dixie

 

[TruthSetsYouFree]

Sounds like she's in a little bit of rebellion there. Maybe she could get an after school job, so she can repay for the debt that she caused? If this is a consideration, maybe when approaching her, ask her, "Don't you think this is only fair? What do you think you should do to repay this debt?" Lay it on her lap, and let her weigh things out for herself. If you just come flat out and ground her from everything, it *may* fuel more rebellion, but if you can get her to 'accept her punishment,' then she would have nobody to blame but herself! She made a mess; why not let her 'clean it up' herself? That way, instead of seeing it as a punishment, she can see it as she's fixing a problem that she herself created. (Aka, taking responsibility for her own actions.)

Just my 2 cents...

Bobby

 

[LiberatedChick]

I was going to say similar to TruthSetsYouFree. Get her an afterschool job (even if it's only a paper round or something) so that she can repay at least some of the debt. She may be so unfazed by this as she doesn't realise just how much she has cost the family....$1700.00 would be just a number to most kids. Having her repay it should teach her just how much money that is and that she should be more responsible with money.

It is often good for kids to have a mobile phone for safety these days though maybe getting her one that isn't on a contract would be the best idea. Over here you can get "pay as you go" phones....you pre-pay a certain amount (say £10) and once that is used up you can't make calls or text until you top up your credit. I assume the same type of thing is available over there. Having something like this for her so she can actually see how much she's spending on calls and texts would be a good idea. With this she could then maybe have a weekly phone allowance...they'd be no chance of her overspending as once the money has run out she can't make a call (except to free numbers).

Some phone companies can also set up pin numbers for your house phone so to make a call you have to put in a four digit pin first....I think that's often for all numbers except emergency services. This would stop her from using that phone behind your backs.

 

[bliz]

... and when does she start paying you back for the phone bill???? She may not be remorseful yet, but she will be when she works to earn money and the bulk of it (it should not be all of it) goes to the phone company.

Meanwhile, it is clear that she has too much time on her hands or too much time with no adult around. You and your husband need to take a hard look at things and see what, if any changes, can be made in your schedules so that she has less time when she can do something like this or things with far worse ramifications. You have solved the problem with phone access for now, but the problem of her heart and mind are not going to be so easily solved.

Also, if you outright ask, the phone company may be willing to cut the bill down a little bit. They certainly won't volunteer to do this, but you may cut the bite by asking for some relief.

 

[fishstix]

Personally, I'd take away any phone she has and require her to pay the phone bill - even if it requires her getting a job or having her do extra work around the house for minimum wage. If she needs a way to phone home then I would give her one of those phone cards that only work for calling home but not for calling any other number - those can be used with a payphone or a regular phone.

As far as getting her to understand what could have happened - perhaps you could assign her a five hundred word essay on the dangers of talking with unknown men like that. Have her do some research on teenagers who have been kidnapped and worse after starting out the same way. Let her use the essay towards part of the payment for the phone bill.

As this kind of behavior probably involves many of the teens in her school, you might want to ask her principal or the PTA if they could have a policeman come in and do a presentation for the students about the dangers of that sort of activity.

 

[chilibowl]

Paying back, the bill is a no brainer your going to have to make her understand what exactly 1700.00 really is... every cent, even if you can't find a real job for her giver her a job for a real wage like minumn wage... how much could a 14 year old earn anyway. It does sound like she is in a major rebellous movement right now, most "movements" are rebellious not only to the "rules" of the house but they may also be protesting living conditions, or even trying to punish... you said you and hubby have been extremely busy... not that you guys are in the wrong, busy is a fact of life. She may have a slanted perseption of reality..(spoiled) Or worse yet she could finding the true power that lies in being a woman "The ability to wake "Men" and that in of it self can be entoxicating to someone who's never felt power like that before. either way, the way out of this is alitle harsh but hear me out... We tend to over protect our childern now adays, to the point where they can live in a world without consequence.. like it or not your daughter lives there, or at least displays that life style... So show her what happens when very young girls that mess around older guys, namly thru a crisis pregance center for young girls make her volenteer there or just spend some time in the waiting room, or have her go though your county jail and see the type of quality people who will speak to a fourteen yearold about sexual things for hours in the night anyone of which she could be texting.. I'm sure your local jail or even state prision are full of these guys. Most of the instutitions have "Scared straight programs" call around and try find one.. or even talk with your family doctor bout some info on STD's there some grusome pics of worse cases I'm sure that will have quite an impact as well... Even if she claims sex is not in her intent make sure if a man comes from mississippi or where ever, she's not going to have much of a choice if he gets the chance...I'm not trying to be mean by any of this, neither should you, but It trully looks like she should be forced to take a real look at what she is potentally doing.
Goodluck and god bless

 

[DawnTillery]

Apparently your like me, your children need cell phones because of activities away from home or a quick out if they need you in any situation.
You didnt come off as a bad mother to me, but a carring and concerned Mom..
I bought my daughter (14yrs old) a tracfone, not a monthly bill phone and I limit her minutes. My daughter is to give me the phone when she goes to bed at night, if she needs to make a call she can use the house phone and she doesnt take it to school, only for away activities.

She did disobey my at first, but she lost it for 2 weeks and she dont want that to happen ever again. (she erased the calls she had been making, when I caught her in her room on the phone, she wasnt talking to anyone besides a friend, but thats not something that happens in my house, yes she deserves privacy, but little girls sometimes make bad plans/judgements when they are away from their parents watchful eye)

Possibly? im assuming she is talking to these guys on the internet? Maybe you need to password your computer - My daughter pulled that also, now she is not allowed to use the computer at all... If she needs to use one, she can go to the library.

I would definetely take the phone or start limiting her use. She is to give you the phone at a certain time or when she is in the house she is to give it to you?

I can understand your concern, yes the bill is outrageous, but thats not even the problem -- its the stuff she was doing on the phone and disobeying your rules.

Her phone SHOULD track her minutes, limit her to so many minutes a month and you check it (if u cant check it on the phone, check online or call your company)

She probably THOUGHT u couldnt tell who she was talking to? Maybe she wont do it again? But I know 14 yr olds have to have consequences for their actions --- Possibly have her work off her payment to you for the over charges by doing charity work in your neighborhood -- lots of retirement/nursing homes NEED volunteers, Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, not to even mention your home church could probably have something for her.

Hey y'all,

At the risk of sounding like a bad parent, I'm just gonna say this the only way I know how. My phone bill (mobile, and house phone) for last month is $1700.00. Yeah, you read that right--$1700.00, and in reviewing the thing, I see that my 14 year old daughter has been texting and talking to God-knows-who all hours of the day and night, and I didn't know it...


Our cell phones are with Cingular wireless, through Bellsouth, and we have a family plan--4 phones for a flat rate, with 850 minutes, unlimited nights and weekends. After we got our phones, I called and had the long distance taken off the house phone, as we didn't need it anymore--all in the interest of lowering our phone bills, and getting everybody a new phone.


OK, here's the thing: Even though we had a meeting beforehand about the rules for phone usage, etc., my daughter quickly showed that she was irresponsible with hers, and got it taken away.


This was late January, and now I know why she's been so good about it: She'd been using the house phone!! We've since taken it out of the house, btw.


Turns out that she and her little friends text boys--any boys anywhere, all hours of the day or night, but Mary has never been allowed to talk to boys on the phone. I had no idea that girls did this, until after the phone bill came, and I looked at her cell phone.


Long story short, there were a bunch of numbers on there from everywhere--everywhere, and the messages ranged from 'hey babe', to 'your mama's a you know what', etc. (They just don't know.)


The phone bill had two numbers on it--one from somewhere in Detroit, which only seemed to last about 3 days worth of all night conversation, and the other was from a town in central Mississippi--395 calls to this number.


So I called both numbers. They were both young men--the first one was 18, and the second 21. When I talked to the first guy, (told him I was her), after sweet-talking his name and address out of him (so I could "mail him something"), he started in with some of the creepiest mess you ever heard, and it was then I told him who I really was, and how old MM was, and not to EVER call this number again, and btw, I KNOW your name and where you work, and where you live, and you can BE expecting a visit from the police real soon, and on and on and on. I could almost see his facial expression go from whatever it was, to something WAY on the other side of upset. (hate it for him--NOT)


Nexxxttt...I called the other number--the one with so many calls on it, and did the same thing. This guy was well-spoken, super nice--not at all what I expected, and when I gave him the "come to Jesus" speech, he apologized--he admitted he was 21, and said that she had told him that she was 17--had sent him a message by mistake, etc. He went on to give me his address, and his father's address, and where he worked, and that at first, he did flirt with her over the phone, but the minute he found out she was 14, he backed WAY off, and told her so. Looking at the phone bill, I see that his story checks out.


Apparently, they had been talking day and night on the phone--bellsouth DID turn off the long distance on our calling plan, however, every call which was made had a premium rate--very much like long distance calls placed from a hotel, which is why the bill is so high.


But all that aside (plus the fact that it took me three days to tell my husband), here's what REALLY bothers me: She doesn't seem the least bit remorseful for this.


This happened last week, and because my husband and I have both been working so much, and we had both a family reunion (my side), and a death in the family (his side) since then, we've only been able to go over this with the kids tonight, and she didn't have anything to say for herself!


We grounded her from everything but oxygen, but she seems curiously unfazed--bear in mind that she's USUALLY a good kid--good grades, no trouble at school, never anything like this.


It boils down to this: How in the world can I punish this child for this? How do I make her understand the gravity of the situation--not just the money, but the disobedience, and the fact that she (thank GOD), had been talking to a young man who didn't want to rape her or worse!


Y'all can't know how guilty I feel about all this--how in the world did this get past us?? I knew she had been awfully tired lately--not wanting to get up for school, etc., but I had no idea...


Thoughts please--I need some perspective here, and don't be afraid to tell me the truth. (And YEAH, I know I never come over here 'til I need something...kindly forgive that.)


Thank you much,
Dixie

 

[DawnTillery]

oh yeah! one more quick thing... I would check her phone daily, just ask for it and if the call log has been erased then you take the phone? Tell her she isnt allowed to erase that call log and you will keep track when the phone bill comes in.. These are extreme measures, but as others have said... U know you have to keep her safe and sometimes tough love is the best way!!! I also want to emphasis again that the internet is NOT the place for children at all.. Believe me, ive been there done that with my daughter and I wont ever let her on it again --- and I had no way to lock her out on my other computer -- but now I have XP and I have a way to lock her out -- Because I would tell her before no computer and she would get up early or sneak down and get on it... She didnt realize Yahoo Messenger has a message archive and I caught her talking really bad with some guy, so I added the guy to my list and he told me he was 20+ and then when I told him who i was, he said no im only 15.. ...

My best advice is dont underestimate her on what she can do or what her friends or guys can talk her into.. I would also becareful of who's house she is going to like if they got cells or internet. There are so many predators out there --- Talk to the parents if they canNOT gurantee that your daughter wont have access to these things then I would not send her over there.

Sounds like lock down, but I have and still do it with my daughter. She can have friends over but she isnt going anywhere unless I know the parent/s ..

Apparently your like me, your children need cell phones because of activities away from home or a quick out if they need you in any situation.
You didnt come off as a bad mother to me, but a carring and concerned Mom..
I bought my daughter (14yrs old) a tracfone, not a monthly bill phone and I limit her minutes. My daughter is to give me the phone when she goes to bed at night, if she needs to make a call she can use the house phone and she doesnt take it to school, only for away activities.

She did disobey my at first, but she lost it for 2 weeks and she dont want that to happen ever again. (she erased the calls she had been making, when I caught her in her room on the phone, she wasnt talking to anyone besides a friend, but thats not something that happens in my house, yes she deserves privacy, but little girls sometimes make bad plans/judgements when they are away from their parents watchful eye)

Possibly? im assuming she is talking to these guys on the internet? Maybe you need to password your computer - My daughter pulled that also, now she is not allowed to use the computer at all... If she needs to use one, she can go to the library.

I would definetely take the phone or start limiting her use. She is to give you the phone at a certain time or when she is in the house she is to give it to you?

I can understand your concern, yes the bill is outrageous, but thats not even the problem -- its the stuff she was doing on the phone and disobeying your rules.

Her phone SHOULD track her minutes, limit her to so many minutes a month and you check it (if u cant check it on the phone, check online or call your company)

She probably THOUGHT u couldnt tell who she was talking to? Maybe she wont do it again? But I know 14 yr olds have to have consequences for their actions --- Possibly have her work off her payment to you for the over charges by doing charity work in your neighborhood -- lots of retirement/nursing homes NEED volunteers, Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, not to even mention your home church could probably have something for her.

 

[xenia]

Wow, what a story, and only too common nowadays. Technology has moved too fast. Our kids have access to all kinds of stuff that was never an issue when we were kids. DixieNurse, don't be too hard on yourself. Who could have known this would have happened? One of my students recently used her cell phone to chat with her friends back home in Egypt and suprised her folks with a multi-thousand dollar phone bill. I believe some of the fault for this lies with the phone companies. The plans are TOO COMPLICATED. All this shuck and jive about roving and peak hours and zones, etc. etc. About the only way you can be sure your phone bill doesn't go through the roof is to use a pre-paid plan. There are very few jobs that 14-year olds can take apart from baby-sitting and paper routes. I'd put her to work at home. Make her wash all the dishes, etc. And when it comes time to get a license and a car.... remind her that you are now too broke to get her a car, thanks to the phone bill. Also, your poor daughter has fallen into the habit of sneakiness so you're gonna have to have surprise inspections pretty often. We all think we have to respect our children's privacy but that's a modern notion. Check her purse, her packback, etc. Be cheerful, but ya gotta do it.

It may be that your family life is too complicated? Are you guys ever home for meals together, church together on Sunday, etc? It seems like you are all very busy.

 

[DixieNurse]

Hello everyone,


Sorry to be so long replying, but I did want to thank y'all for your excellent suggestions, and let you know what I've decided to do.


OK, after going through the phone bill, and making allowances for the charges incurred by everyone else, as well as the charges which I disputed with the phone company, I figure my daughter owes me $1000.00.


So....I've cleaned out her room, and (as Helice suggested), taken away all of her possessions (everything--she can live the rest of her life without most of those things), to be sold next week at a yard sale, with the proceeds to go towards the $1000.00 she owes me. (I don't think she really believes I'm going to do this, but I am--took the door off her room, too, btw.)


The balance of her bill will be worked off at the rate of $2.00/hr., until it's all paid. Every time she shows me an attitude, or smarts off, or complains, it adds another hour to her time, and she's responsible for keeping up with it, although I intend to do so as well.


She's to be in bed at 8:30/pm every night, and she's grounded from everything but school and church until the bill is completely paid off. She's also not going to get any new clothes nor a haircut, nor any new shoes until then either--absolutely NOTHING NEW. It goes without saying that she's grounded from the phone, and the cell phone and computer are long gone.... *sigh*


In addition, she has to write a 500 word essay on online predators, and her father is going to take her through a 'Scared Straight"-type program at the police department/jail where he works.


That's what I have so far. I still haven't seen any true remorse--all the tears she cried about "her" stuff aren't remorseful--nope, those are "*** she's taking my stuff" tears, and I'm not fooled a bit by those.


At any rate, it's weird around here now, because she's not even allowed to go into her room until bedtime--homework at the kitchen table, and she has to stay in the room with one of us at all times. We've also taken all the phones out of the house, with just one portable house phone, which is in my bedroom. I hate that it's come to this, but it has, and I'd be fooling myself to think otherwise.


Thank you all again for your support--I appreciate it more than you know, and if y'all can think of anything else, I'm listening!


Much love,
Dixie

 

[ChristyP4Christ]

I have five teens. I learned with the first three, so the last two does not have a cell phone. They are both 15. we have phone rules. My girls are allowed to use the phone for 30 mins a day.
I would also suggest a job, and if it is that you could not get her to an after school job and back, make her do somethings around the house. When my oldest got caught smoking she had tooth brush in hand and scrubbed the kitchen floor.
I really hated it, but tuff love sometimes goes a long way.
I would by no means give her back her cell phone.
I heard the other day on the news that they were coming up with a teen cell phone. It has no dial keys. You as the parent can program in up to 10 numbers that they are allowed to call and it has a 911 key. Maybe you can check into this. You can also set timers on it so it cuts off after so many mins of use.

 

[xenia]

If the punishment is too steep, and I think selling off all her possessions is too steep, you risk winning the battle but losing the war. She will resent this the rest of her life and you will lose your daughter. RELATIONSHIP. Relationship is more important than money or even teaching a lesson. Please back up a little while there's still time.

 

[bliz]

If the punishment is too steep, and I think selling off all her possessions is too steep, you risk winning the battle but losing the war. She will resent this the rest of her life and you will lose your daughter. RELATIONSHIP. Relationship is more important than money or even teaching a lesson. Please back up a little while there's still time.

Please! Reread the above post!

"Provoke not your children to anger lest you provide a foothold for the devil." It seems to me that you are giving Satan a large and comfortable foothold in your daughter's heart and mind.

Yes, I think she should pay for her calls... I do not think that her life needs to become intolerable. Taking away her privacy is a major blow! You have made being near you a punishment, not a pleasure. What she did was wrong, but what you are proposing is also wrong. It is overkill. Her life is now pretty dreadful, so, she has nothing to lose. What more can you do to her if she does sometihg else wrong? Shut off the heat to her room? Put her on a starvation diet? She has nothing left to lose. So, in addition to being very angry at you, you have set her up in a position where, as far as she's concerned, things could not possibly get worse, so she might as well do whatever she can think of to do.

Of course she's not admitting any wrong doing. You have become the enemy, and one never shows weakness to the enemy. The yard sale will humiliate her - in addition to teaching her than anything you have vere given her is not really hers at all.

I have worked most of my professinal life with teenagers. If you would like your daughter to hate you, you've got a great plan in hand.

Please, please, please back off! The relationship is really all you have with your children and you are about to poison this relationship big time.

 

[ChristyP4Christ]

As a parent I support what you are having to do. Please everyone know that selling all her stuff is not a bad thing. My daughter went through a time when her room was a pigs sty and I bagged all her things and took them for a month and gave them back. Two months later I was bagging them again, after a year of bagging and giving them back just to bag again. I set them on the curb for the trash man.
Guess what? Her room has been neat ever since. Tuff love is harder for the parent then one might think. It breaks our hearts, but we know if we are to ever teach them we have to do it at times. We do not want them growing up with these bad habits or thinking life is a game....
I am praying for you sweetie. I know it must be very hard, but stick to it and your daughter will be a much better adult for it....

 

[lonnienord]

I think DixieNurse did exactly the right thing. In the end it won't hurt their relationship at some point the daughter will thank her mom and love her for loving her!

 

[bliz]

My daughter went through a time when her room was a pigs sty and I bagged all her things and took them for a month and gave them back. Two months later I was bagging them again, after a year of bagging and giving them back just to bag again. I set them on the curb for the trash man.
Guess what? Her room has been neat ever since.

This is a logical consequence. If one is not responsible for their property, they don't get to keep their property. The punishment fits the crime, so to speak. The use of logical consequences is a great parenting tool.

Not having a phone and use of a phone is a logical consequence for a daughter who is irresponsible for both the time spent on the phone and who she spent time time with. Paying for the phone bill (which will take a long period of time for someone her age) is a logical consequence.

Having her bedroom door removed and all of her posiossions taken away and publically sold is not a logical consequence. It's mean and bullying and it it the kind of thing that damages relationships for years to come.

 

[justjan]

No one has to have a cell phone. We all got along just fine before they came along.

She has to repay this. It will be difficult and painful, but it may keep her from making her life a financial disaster later.

If you have a computer that she uses unsupervised I recommend that you install Spectorsoft software today. It will allow you to see everything she is doing online as well as allow you to block her from having internet access at certain times of the day and block her from sites that you view as inappropriate.

As for selling her stuff, this is what happens in the real world. When one doesn't pay a bill and has a judgement against them, the bailiff will take property sufficient to pay the debt owed. If that is the only way she can pay the debt then do it.

Give her the choice....work it off or sell stuff.

If you are really concerned that she learn financial responsibility, I suggest you visit www.daveramsey.com. There is a program called Financial Peace directed at teens.

 

[Dicy mind]

But all that aside (plus the fact that it took me three days to tell my husband), here's what REALLY bothers me: She doesn't seem the least bit remorseful for this.


This happened last week, and because my husband and I have both been working so much, and we had both a family reunion (my side), and a death in the family (his side) since then, we've only been able to go over this with the kids tonight, and she didn't have anything to say for herself!


We grounded her from everything but oxygen, but she seems curiously unfazed--bear in mind that she's USUALLY a good kid--good grades, no trouble at school, never anything like this.

Little bro made huge bill too using Internet whit cell phone and he didn't seem to be sorry either. I guess thats just because kids are so embarrassed and shocked about what they have done so they lockup.

 

[justjan]

Some kids are harder to reach. That is no reason to not work harder to break them. God does exactly the same thing with us. He applies pressure until we are ready to be taught and submit to His will.

As for the punishment being too harsh, I might agree with that if this child showed some remorse. Her lack of contrition about losing "everything" and instead being prideful is proof that she doesn't recognize the magnitude of the crime.

Suppose she had stolen this amount from someone other than her parents. What would be the consequence?

If this situation costs them their relationship there are bigger issues that need to be dealt with. At that point I would get a pastor involved in the conversation. To fail to parent out of fear of damaging a relationship with a child makes the child the one in charge. We are to love our children no worship them.

I want to commend you as a mom for doing the difficult thing. I pray that God softens your daughter's heart.

 

[bliz]

Some kids are harder to reach. That is no reason to not work harder to break them. God does exactly the same thing with us. He applies pressure until we are ready to be taught and submit to His will.

Strange... Scripture never says anything about breaking a child. Parents are instructed to train up a child, not to break them down.