What Time is It?

[woobadooba]

It's time to spend less time complaining about what people believe and more time making sure our character is fitted for heaven.

The Bible gives us explicit instruction on how we should behave towards others. It is time to do what it says!

This is not about being saved by works. It's about being genuine Christians--the kind of people that Jesus said we ought to be!

 

[Adventtruth]

It's time to spend less time complaining about what people believe and more time making sure our character is fitted for heaven.

The Bible gives us explicit instruction on how we should behave towards others. It is time to do what it says!

This is not about being saved by works. It's about being genuine Christians--the kind of people that Jesus said we ought to be!

Hi woob!

And what if our characters are not perfect? What if I don't always behave righteous towards others? IF I fail at my charcter, does that mean I am not ready?

All honest questions.


AT

 

[AndrewK788]

Hi woob!

And what if our characters are not perfect? What if I don't always behave righteous towards others? IF I fail at my charcter, does that mean I am not ready?

All honest questions.


AT

I know I'm not Woob, but I'll throw my opinion out here anyway lol.

Good question...in my opinion a genuine Christian is one who fully accepts Christ as his savior. I do believe a true follow will show changes in his life and character, but not perfection. We're still humans and we'll still make mistakes. The difference is we've accepted Christ, thus are saved.

 

[VictorC]

I know I'm not Woob, but I'll throw my opinion out here anyway lol.

Good question...in my opinion a genuine Christian is one who fully accepts Christ as his savior. I do believe a true follow will show changes in his life and character, but not perfection. We're still humans and we'll still make mistakes. The difference is we've accepted Christ, thus are saved.

More important is that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, and God has sealed us with His Spirit of promise.
We've been bought.
We're His.
I think God has already accepted us.

 

[woobadooba]

Hi woob!

And what if our characters are not perfect? What if I don't always behave righteous towards others? IF I fail at my charcter, does that mean I am not ready?

All honest questions.


AT

It is not up to us to determine if our character is perfect. It is our responsibility to do what God asks of us.

The perfection that most concerns God is that which manifests itself in response to His will...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It's time to spend less time complaining about what people believe

Not sure what you mean here. What is it that you view as "complaining?"

and more time making sure our character is fitted for heaven.

If my character is changed for the better, what part did I play in such a change?

How perfect must my character become in order for it to be fit for Heaven?

Am I capable of creating in myself a character that is fit for Heaven?

The Bible gives us explicit instruction on how we should behave towards others. It is time to do what it says!

What I do I lack?

This is not about being saved by works.

Can you explain the difference between--

(1) making sure my character is fit for Heaven; and

(2) being saved by my works?

It's about being genuine Christians--the kind of people that Jesus said we ought to be!

How many of us have missed that mark? One? Two? Six? All?
How many of us need a Savior? One? Two? Six? All?

It is not up to us to determine if our character is perfect. It is our responsibility to do what God asks of us.

But you do agree, don't you, that it is left with us to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Right?
How do we know when we every defilement has been cleansed?

BFA

 

[woobadooba]

More important is that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, and God has sealed us with His Spirit of promise.
We've been bought.
We're His.
I think God has already accepted us.

It is not a question of whether God accepts us or not. It is a question of whether we are trying to serve Him in bits and pieces, or if we are accepting the whole of who He is.

 

[woobadooba]

Not sure what you mean here. What is it that you view as "complaining?"



If my character is changed for the better, what part did I play in such a change?

How perfect must my character become in order for it to be fit for Heaven?

Am I capable of creating in myself a character that is fit for Heaven?



What I do I lack?



Can you explain the difference between--

(1) making sure my character is fit for Heaven; and

(2) being saved by my works?



How many of us have missed that mark? One? Two? Six? All?
How many of us need a Savior? One? Two? Six? All?

BFA

I think it would be better for you to take these questions to God.

If you are truly interested in the truth you will come to know if what I have shared with you is either true or false, and God will show you the intentions of the heart.

Now is not the time to debate, but to reflect on what you already know you ought to be doing.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I think it would be better for you to take these questions to God.

I agree. I have done so.

If you are truly interested in the truth

Why would you doubt that I am interested in the truth?

you will come to know if what I have shared with you is either true or false

I am confident that, if I am ever "fit for Heaven," it will have nothing to do with the things that I have done.

and God will show you the intentions of the heart.

I am sure your intentions are honorable and I'm not seeking to question your motives. I am just trying to understand what you believe and why you believe it. Feel free to clarify further.

Now is not the time to debate,

Why do you conclude that there is no value in discussing openly the things that you believe, the things that the Scriptures teach and the things that others believe? I believe I still have a number of blind spots, and I've found that discussing my beliefs helps me to better understand them.

but to reflect on what you already know you ought to be doing.

Have we met before? Do you know something about me that we should discuss further? If you believe there is something I need to know, I'd be happy to hear your perspective.

Q: What is it that I ought to be doing that you believe I am not doing?

It is not a question of whether God accepts us or not. It is a question of whether we are trying to serve Him in bits and pieces, or if we are accepting the whole of who He is.

Q: Which pieces do I still need to accept? If I'm missing something, you would do me a great service if you would show me what I lack!

BFA

 

[VictorC]

It is not a question of whether God accepts us or not. It is a question of whether we are trying to serve a God in bits and pieces, or if we are accepting the whole of who He is.

If we aren't accepted by God, then serving Him is an act of vanity.
I don't really comprehend your allusion to "bits and pieces", because He has puchased all of us, instead of determining to save our thumb and not our toe.

I sense that there is a servitude to an entity you haven't identified as yet, as the Gospel of adoption has changed our status from that of being a servant to a son (or daughter):

Galatians 4:4-7
4: But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5: To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6: And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7: Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Romans 12:1-3 adds to your thought of making ourselves a living sacrifice, so that we might "prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God", but I'm having difficulty reconciling this with "bits and pieces".
It would help if you clarify your point.

My point is that it isn't in our ability to make ourselves acceptable for God's adoption, since He has chosen us in our sin ahead of time.

Victor

 

[woobadooba]

If we aren't accepted by God, then serving Him is an act of vanity.
I don't really comprehend your allusion to "bits and pieces", because He has puchased all of us, instead of determining to save our thumb and not our toe.

I sense that there is a servitude to an entity you haven't identified as yet, as the Gospel of adoption has changed our status from that of being a servant to a son (or daughter):

Galatians 4:4-7
4: But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5: To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6: And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7: Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Romans 12:1-3 adds to your thought of making ourselves a living sacrifice, so that we might "prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God", but I'm having difficulty reconciling this with "bits and pieces".
It would help if you clarify your point.

My point is that it isn't in our ability to make ourselves acceptable for God's adoption, since He has chosen us in our sin ahead of time.

Victor

What I mean by bits and pieces has nothing to do with body parts, but everything to do with what we are willing to accept of God.

We have a tendency to choose those aspects of God that are most appealing to us, such as, we are saved by grace and Jesus died for our sins, while refusing to accept the parts of God that tell us things about ourselves that we don't want to hear, such as, you need to change your ways and live up to your faith and stop pretending to be something that you aren't. Thus, we serve God in bits and pieces. And this was the point that Jesus was making in Matt. 7:21-23

 

[Cribstyl]

What I mean by bits and pieces has nothing to do with body parts, but everything to do with what we are willing to accept of God.

We have a tendency to choose those aspects of God that are most appealing to us, such as,

(A) we are saved by grace and Jesus died for our sins,

while refusing to accept the parts of God that tell us things about ourselves that we don't want to hear, such as,(B) you need to change your ways and live up to your faith and stop pretending to be something that you aren't.

Thus, we serve God in bits and pieces. And this was the point that Jesus was making in Matt. 7:21-23

Is'nt this the faith VS works argument?


Mat 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.





I believe that the will of the father was express by Jesus in what He taught and what He commissioned His apostles to teach rather than reasoning out righteousness according to the law given to Moses.

We all fall miserable short of His grace but He call us to be in fellowship and relationship as dear children.
Yes, We all should strive to be Holy because He is Holy.

CRIB

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What I mean by bits and pieces has nothing to do with body parts, but everything to do with what we are willing to accept of God. We have a tendency to choose those aspects of God that are most appealing to us,

I am glad that you used the pronoun "we." For example, SDAism picks and chooses the laws that it likes and those it does not like:

• Get rid of the passover.
• Keep the sabbath.
• Get rid of animal sacrifies.
• Keep the dietary laws.
• Get rid of circumcision.
• Keep the tithing laws.

such as, we are saved by grace and Jesus died for our sins, while refusing to accept the parts of God that tell us things about ourselves that we don't want to hear, such as, you need to change your ways and live up to your faith and stop pretending to be something that you aren't.

Who is in need of the grace of Jesus Christ? The man who "lives up to his faith?" Or the man who fails to "live up to his faith?"

Thus, we serve God in bits and pieces.

Actually, we don't serve God at all. There is none righteous, not even one. Human righteousness is as filthy rags. There is only One who is good.

And this was the point that Jesus was making in Matt. 7:21-23

Is the rock upon which our house is built our "good works" or is it Jesus Christ?

BFA

 

[VictorC]

What I mean by bits and pieces has nothing to do with body parts, but everything to do with what we are willing to accept of God.

We have a tendency to choose those aspects of God that are most appealing to us, such as, we are saved by grace and Jesus died for our sins, while refusing to accept the parts of God that tell us things about ourselves that we don't want to hear, such as, you need to change your ways and live up to your faith and stop pretending to be something that you aren't. Thus, we serve God in bits and pieces. And this was the point that Jesus was making in Matt. 7:21-23

I suspect that there is depth to this passage that you haven't perceived.

Matthew 7:13-23
13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

How is following this passage's admonishment to reject false prophets touting their wonderful "works" related to making ourselves a living sacrifice?

What does Jesus call these false prophets?
Workers of iniquity, or anomia 'contempt and violation of law' - the worst thing you could call someone carrying a works-based "gospel" based on compliance to the abolished covenant.

Well, that's my take, anyway.

Victor

 

[Adventtruth]

It is not up to us to determine if our character is perfect. It is our responsibility to do what God asks of us.

The perfection that most concerns God is that which manifests itself in response to His will...

woob you make God sound like a ruler who uses His power oppressively or unjustly with that above statement. You make it sound like slavish fear. You said its not about works then you say the things you said above.

But the truth is we don't always do what He ask. No body does.

And how do we know if our characters are fitted for heaven? What is the bar that I must reach?

How can I be perfect in doing Gods will?


Woob its not fair for you to come in here and say what you said, and not answer question when we ask. If you are not interested in answering honest question, then kindly don't come, we are intersted in honest answers for our questions.

AT

 

[Mankin]

Honestally I am sick of this perfection theology. Even Catholcism is more bending. At least there is a purgatory for perfection in Catholcism. There is no purgatory in the perfection theology!

Where in the Bible is one verse that states, you need to be perfect to enter heaven? Wasn't that the very reason Jesus came to earth? We were not perfect thus we could not enter heaven but by Jesus' grace we are made perfect. Where do any of the apostles say they are perfect? Many of them asked Christians to claim to the promise of salvation. If they held to EGW statement that men should never say they are saved, I can guarantee you there would not be as many converts to Christianity during that time! The trouble with the perfection theology is that it is based entirely on a few verses that offer no exact evidence for it.
In fact one might say it is almost as ill based as the Westboro Baptist God hates the World theology(I'm not trying to insult people that hold to the perfection theology.)
The perfection theology scornes the very Protestant Reformation as Martin Luther struggled quite a bit with this "perfection"

 

[AndrewK788]

Honestally I am sick of this perfection theology. Even Catholcism is more bending. At least there is a purgatory for perfection in Catholcism. There is no purgatory in the perfection theology!

Where in the Bible is one verse that states, you need to be perfect to enter heaven? Wasn't that the very reason Jesus came to earth? We were not perfect thus we could not enter heaven but by Jesus' grace we are made perfect. Where do any of the apostles say they are perfect? Many of them asked Christians to claim to the promise of salvation. If they held to EGW statement that men should never say they are saved, I can guarantee you there would not be as many converts to Christianity during that time! The trouble with the perfection theology is that it is based entirely on a few verses that offer no exact evidence for it.
In fact one might say it is almost as ill based as the Westboro Baptist God hates the World theology(I'm not trying to insult people that hold to the perfection theology.)
The perfection theology scornes the very Protestant Reformation as Martin Luther struggled quite a bit with this "perfection"

And to add to this Mankin, perfection theology entirely undermines and minimalizes the significance of Christ's sacrifice for us.

 

[Mankin]

Indeed, if the perfection theology is true, then what exactly was Jesus' death for? Was it so he could help us become perfect? Couldn't he have done that before instead of dying? Or was his sacrifice so hollow that his death only covers our past sins and does not guarranttee us eternal life.

 

[VictorC]

Honestally I am sick of this perfection theology. Even Catholcism is more bending. At least there is a purgatory for perfection in Catholcism. There is no purgatory in the perfection theology!

Where in the Bible is one verse that states, you need to be perfect to enter heaven? Wasn't that the very reason Jesus came to earth? We were not perfect thus we could not enter heaven but by Jesus' grace we are made perfect. Where do any of the apostles say they are perfect? Many of them asked Christians to claim to the promise of salvation. If they held to EGW statement that men should never say they are saved, I can guarantee you there would not be as many converts to Christianity during that time! The trouble with the perfection theology is that it is based entirely on a few verses that offer no exact evidence for it.
In fact one might say it is almost as ill based as the Westboro Baptist God hates the World theology(I'm not trying to insult people that hold to the perfection theology.)
The perfection theology scornes the very Protestant Reformation as Martin Luther struggled quite a bit with this "perfection"

I have to agree with your assessment, in that perfection isn't simply impractable but impossible, which is why we needed a redeemer in the first place. The Gospel can be summed up from Romans 11:32 when it reads plainly, For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all, and the context of this passage reveals this was the means that salvation became available to the Gentiles, who never had a relationship with God based on the Mosaic covenant.

Luther's claim to fame was initiated by "the just shall live by his faith" found in Habakkuk 2:4.
Not the antithesis of works, which is the Adventist model of compliance to a sabbath ordinance that no one has complied with.

Victor

 

[freeindeed2]

It's time to spend less time complaining about what people believe and more time making sure our character is fitted for heaven.

The Bible gives us explicit instruction on how we should behave towards others. It is time to do what it says!

This is not about being saved by works. It's about being genuine Christians--the kind of people that Jesus said we ought to be!

Hey WOOB! What are you doing over here? I thought you wanted nothing to do with this group of people? I'm actually surprised to see you posting with those you have so vehemently spoken and acted against and reported!

On the topic, what have you done to 'make sure' your character is fitted for heaven?

Here's what I have 'done':

Realized that Jesus is my righteousness and that he became sin for me so that HE could make me righteous by crediting (imputing) me with HIS own righteousness (since my nature was completely devoid of it). HE gave me faith and has saved me by grace (alone) through faith (alone) PLUS NOTHING!!! by shedding HIS own blood on my behalf in order to purchase me from certian death and GIVE me eternal life.

So I have already been GIVEN eternal life based on Jesus Christ (SAVIOR) and have already passed from death to life. His SPIRIT lives IN me as a guarantee of ALL that HE has promised and there is NOTHING that can separate me from him, NOTHING and NO ONE that can snatch me out of his hand. I am a NEW creation and have died to sin and my old self and have been raised up and joined to another (JESUS CHRIST).

That's Good News!

Now...what have YOU done?

In CHRIST alone...