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This objection is as curious as it is ironic, inasmuch as deleting troublesome texts from the canon is more of a Protestant thing.If the universal sinfulness of humanity is a matter of idle theological speculation then one, I suppose, must develop some clever means of eliminating these troubling passages.
Ah, so 'no one' doesn't really mean 'no one' but no one in a certain situation.
Hmm.... So are you saying he is/was infallible? Sure sounds like it. And how did he get this authority?
John 6:44Where does it say that in these passages? Or are you "basically" just giving us your personal and fallible interpretation of what 'you' think these passages mean?
Have a Blessed day, or evening!
Got a bit of a problem here DM, the verse in Romans 3:11 does not say, "No one who is an unbeliever seeks God." It says, "No one seeks God." Are you now telling me that "no one" does not actually mean no one? That "no one" is not an absolute? Or are you trying to add your own words and personal interpretation to this verse? Sure seems like it.
Have a Blessed Day!
You caught that too. Well, will just have to see how DM responds to my latest post.
Peace be with you!
It took me a while to see how 'all' and 'no one' were generalities. I was initially skeptical and the whole Mary thing took me a long time. Be patient. The Catholic position makes sense if understood properly. But it all has to fit together first.
This objection is as curious as it is ironic, inasmuch as deleting troublesome texts from the canon is more of a Protestant thing.
Mark 3:20-21 20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they (Mary, the mother of Jesus, and Joseph) said, “He is out of his mind.”This objection is as curious as it is ironic, inasmuch as deleting troublesome texts from the canon is more of a Protestant thing.
Of course you don't. It would upset a large apple cart in your theology if you interpreted Luke 1:28 as something beyond 'favored'. I think the word 'kecharitōmenē' demands a more expansive meaning. That is not a 'hint' but to me it is clear and Biblical. She was so graced that there was no room for sin in her life. And it was fitting to have that sort of mother to raise the Son of Man. She was not blessed merely for being a biological mother. She was blessed before she became a biological mother according to the text.
Our Orthodox friends didn't do the theological working out of original sin, so they are against it. They would be against the Trinity if it wasn't something they did most of the theological work on. They're just like that. On lots of things. For the most part they are not universalists though. And without daring to say so, they pretty much agree with Catholics about Mary. Though they would have to deny it.
Are you infallible?
How do you get your authority?
He got his authority by study of Greek, History of Doctrine, etc.,
The same way a Doctor gets their authority in their speciality.
The fact, that Catholic Greek Scholars agree with him as peer review....
Now, tell me your answers here: questions for our friend cheevyontherivr
Verse 9 appears to be absolute
Verse 12 appears to be absolute
Verse 19 appears to be absolute
Verse 22-23 appears to be absolute
No seeking God refers to unbelievers, not to Christians.
Now, tell me your answers here: questions for our friend cheevyontherivr
Please answer the questions in this thread too, thanks
Now, tell me your answers here: questions for our friend cheevyontherivr
Romans 3:23 23 for all (including Mary, the mother of God) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Mary is not excluded from whom within all have sinned.Every Bible I have ever read, the words...... "including Mary, the mother of God" are not included in Romans 3:23. What version of the bible did you get this from, or are you just adding your own words to Scripture?
I will say though, it is nice to see that you agree Mary "is" the Mother of God!
Have a Blessed Day!
Original Sin does make some things easier theologically speaking but it also creates problems to. Because of Augustine's position on unbaptized babies going straight to hell etc. and people realizing there were potential problems with that, e.g. some people and babies never got a chance for that being raised in non-Christian lands etc., you get into the definition of all kinds of other things like "baptism of desire" , Limbo and so on.
Personally I'm sticking to ancestral Sin and mystery, but I tend to slip into Original Sin type language when talking about things mechanistically at times due to my cradle Lutheran background coming through like a dialectal accent.
What?? Where did this come from? Let's try and stick with the topic at hand, okay? So let's reiterate. Back on post # 325 you said:
And I responded on post #330;
"So when you say "appears", and for sake of discussion, I will take that as you do believe the word "all" in these verses to be an absolute. Meaning, "all" absolutely means all!
Remember DM when I asked you on post #313...."Do you seek God?" A question you did not address. Well, you probably wondered why I asked such a question. The reason I asked you (and other Protestants) this question is because in Romans 3:11 it says that "no one" seeks for God. Well, you didn't answer, but every other Protestant I asked if they are seeking God in their lives, the answer was a firm and absolute "Yes!"
But, Rom 3:11 says, "No!" "No one seeks for God!" So DM, if you believe "all" in Rom 3:23 (and the other verses you quoted) is/are an absolute, then do you also believe "no one" in Rom 3:11 to be an absolute as well?. The way I see it, every Protestant who says Rom 3:23 means everyone, without exception, has sinned, cannot be seeking God in his or her life because Rom 3:11, according to his or her methodology of interpreting Scripture, says that absolutely no one is seeking God.
So, through my Catholic eyes, either the Protestant is not seeking God in his or her life, or the Bible is lying...at least, according to the Protestant interpretation. Or, could be another possibility? The only other possibility, is that the words, "no one," are not being used in an absolute sense. And, if they are not being used in an absolute sense, then it can be argued that the word "all" in 3:23, is also not being used in an absolute sense. Which would shoot a hole in the Protestant argument about Mary. So what do you think?"
And then you responded on post#334:
Where I responded on post# 338:
"Got a bit of a problem here DM, the verse in Romans 3:11 does not say, "No one who is an unbeliever seeks God." It says, "No one seeks God." Are you now telling me that "no one" does not actually mean no one? That "no one" is not an absolute? Or are you trying to add your own words and personal interpretation to this verse? Sure seems like it."
Which catches us up to your post #344:
And post #335 where you said:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, much less addressing my post #338!
For the life of me, I can only surmise the only reason you would want to derail your very own thread this way is to avoid addressing my post. Please prove me to be incorrect!
Have a Blessed Day!
Mary is not excluded from whom within all have sinned.
Please explain ancestral Sin and mystery, thanks daniel.
Is there more detailed sources and thanks.
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