What should the punishment be for enjoying gore?

[solarwave]

I like this topic. I find it quite interesting.

As a gorehound myself (both real and fake stuff), I don't think I should be punished for it. I'm not hurting anyone. And since the only money I'm shelling out is to rent movies (the real stuff is all online for free), which are fake, I'm not responsible for anyone filming snuff. So I don't feel that I'm doing anything wrong.

Do you mind me asking why you watch it? If that is too personal then don't answer, but I'm just interested to understand it better. Personally I just don't want that sort of stuff to be stuck in my mind's eye for the rest of my life.

I'm just trying to imagine the reaction if you admitted you were a cphound instead. In some circles I know of, I think admitting you were an adultpornhound would be more stigmatized than what you said. I just think this issue gives a perfect picture of the US's (and other countries) hypocritical stance of violence and sex.

So do you think think sexual issues should be less taboo or violent issues should be more taboo?

 

[KarateCowboy]

I think listening to him is punishment in itself

 

[Aradia]

In general- there seems to be a natural interest in horror among humans. It's been a popular genre throughout history- because in a funny way it's life-affirming. The more horrific the story, the more glad you are that it's not you in it. Plus the andrenaline rush from fear is a serious buzz.

To a certain extent, this is true, but it only goes so far. There reaches a point where the violence and gore is so realistic and disturbing that most people do *not* want to watch it. Shock exploitation films (as opposed to slasher films) are notoriously good at making people very, very queasy. It's easy to enjoy films like Saw or Hostel that are gory but very obviously just entertainment. Compared to something like August Underground (a trilogy of movies, I've only watched the first one so far), slasher movies are pretty tame. Anyone who reads this and decides to watch any of the August Underground movies, though, please be aware: *they are triggers*. Do NOT watch them if you have PTSD.

 

[rjc34]

Do you mind me asking why they should delete it but not have a criminal charge? As long as it doesn't harm more children I'm comming to the opinion that people should be free to do what they like.

I guess I'm just thinking if it's gone, it's not going to spread to anyone else and increase demand for the real deal. Kind of like places with lenient drug laws that just make you throw it on the ground and stamp on it.

Isn't it possible to track what people search and say on the internet? If they don't promote more of the same thing I can agree with it being legal.

Eh, that's iffy. Police can track IP address records and such, but the internet is a pretty anonymous place. It's pretty futile to go after the searchers, so they go after the producers.

Are you saying real child pornography should be legal because it stops physical abuse to children? Or just the fake stuff?

Fake stuff should be legal to both produce and possess. Real stuff should be illegal to produce (as it harms children) but decriminalized to possess. There's also a lot of stuff around (usually from eastern Europe and Russia) that's basically 'child models' where it's basically non-nude, non sexual pictures of kids and young teens modeling; I don't know where I stand on that stuff, but I lean towards legal.

I also don't think morality should be legislated and only things which threaten the security and liberty of others should be illegal, or things which threaten the interests of the society in general.

Glad to hear it! (the legislating Christian morality arguments get so tiresome sometimes )

 

[rjc34]

Do you mind me asking why you watch it? If that is too personal then don't answer, but I'm just interested to understand it better. Personally I just don't want that sort of stuff to be stuck in my mind's eye for the rest of my life.

I think for most of us it's just morbid curiosity.

 

[rjc34]

To a certain extent, this is true, but it only goes so far. There reaches a point where the violence and gore is so realistic and disturbing that most people do *not* want to watch it. Shock exploitation films (as opposed to slasher films) are notoriously good at making people very, very queasy. It's easy to enjoy films like Saw or Hostel that are gory but very obviously just entertainment. Compared to something like August Underground (a trilogy of movies, I've only watched the first one so far), slasher movies are pretty tame. Anyone who reads this and decides to watch any of the August Underground movies, though, please be aware: *they are triggers*. Do NOT watch them if you have PTSD.

Well, looks like I've got a new trilogy to watch...

 

[Aradia]

Well, looks like I've got a new trilogy to watch...

One word of warning: When you watch the first one, have something around to keep yourself occupied for the half of the movie that nearly made me stop watching for fear of slipping into a permanent coma. It was that boring. Seriously. The beginning and the end of the movie are where the torture/mutilation/etc are. The middle of the movie is mind-boggling tedious. Seriously. I had to force myself to get through it. Ugh. I haven't watched the second and third movies, so I don't know if they suffer from the same problem. The second and third are, I think, supposed to be much "worse" (or better, depending on your perspective *grin*), but even so, I'd still probably recommend watching the entire trilogy. I mean, c'mon -- it's a trilogy!

When I first read (and replied to) the OP, this was the movie that immediately came to mind. Honestly, if "gore" is what you're into, slasher movies aren't all that. Shock exploitation films, the italian cannibal exploitation films, and similar movies are where it's at.

 

[Ayersy]

By enjoying, I mean purposeful watching for enjoyment.


Being that gore involves either the death of extreme mutilation of an individual anyone who gains any enjoyment from it (sadistic, sexual, or what have you) and thus enjoys (purposefully watches for entertainment) gore creates a demand for such. Shouldn't they be charged with a crime similar to mutilating/murdering a person?

It depends on the circumstances.

What kind of scenario are you talking about here? I think if one watches whilst somebody is being hurt/killed and does nothing to help them, then they should be punished, though not too severely.

If it's on video, though, or the person being mutilated consents to being hurt, then there's nothing wrong with watching. Nobody should be punished because their eyes happened to be facing in a certain direction.

 

[rjc34]

When I first read (and replied to) the OP, this was the movie that immediately came to mind. Honestly, if "gore" is what you're into, slasher movies aren't all that. Shock exploitation films, the italian cannibal exploitation films, and similar movies are where it's at.

Ah Cannibal Holocaust, good memories

 

[selfinflikted]

Ah Cannibal Holocaust, good memories

I didn't care for it. BUT, I do love horror films in general - I could take or leave the gore (that's not the reason I watch them). I just like to be scared. Love it, in fact. I own all of the "good" (in my opinion) horror movies ever made, and watch them often and repeatedly.

 

[solarwave]

I guess I'm just thinking if it's gone, it's not going to spread to anyone else and increase demand for the real deal. Kind of like places with lenient drug laws that just make you throw it on the ground and stamp on it.

So the real point is to stop the spread and so promotion of it, rather than stopping the watching of it? Though you obviously don't want people to look at it either.

Eh, that's iffy. Police can track IP address records and such, but the internet is a pretty anonymous place. It's pretty futile to go after the searchers, so they go after the producers.

Fair enough.

Fake stuff should be legal to both produce and possess. Real stuff should be illegal to produce (as it harms children) but decriminalized to possess. There's also a lot of stuff around (usually from eastern Europe and Russia) that's basically 'child models' where it's basically non-nude, non sexual pictures of kids and young teens modeling; I don't know where I stand on that stuff, but I lean towards legal.

Do you think it harms the child? I guess it could be exploiting the child is it is intended for things other than simple modeling.

Glad to hear it! (the legislating Christian morality arguments get so tiresome sometimes )

I hear what the fundementalists try to enforce in America and I'm glad I'm not one of them.

I think for most of us it's just morbid curiosity.

I can see that, but it seems to exploit the genuine pain of another. Also I just wouldn't want images of that in my mind. Each to their own I suppose.

 

[solarwave]

I hope you don't mind me saying, but maybe people shouldn't be promoting this sort of thing on a Christian website? Talking about it is fine, but don't you think giving advice on what to watch seems to go against the basic ethic of Christianity?

Maybe I'm wrong though, free speech and all that jazz.

 

[rjc34]

So the real point is to stop the spread and so promotion of it, rather than stopping the watching of it? Though you obviously don't want people to look at it either.

Oh, I don't have any problem with people looking at it, just with specifically the spread and promotion of it.

Do you think it harms the child? I guess it could be exploiting the child is it is intended for things other than simple modeling.

Does entering a young child into a beauty pageant harm a child? Personally I don't have a problem with it, most of the kids probably enjoy it anyway.

 

[Skaloop]

Well, looks like I've got a new trilogy to watch...

Heh, I'm DLing August Underground and Cannibal Holocaust as I write this.

 

[Aradia]

I hope you don't mind me saying, but maybe people shouldn't be promoting this sort of thing on a Christian website? Talking about it is fine, but don't you think giving advice on what to watch seems to go against the basic ethic of Christianity?

Maybe I'm wrong though, free speech and all that jazz.

I'm not sure to whom this is directed, since I don't think anybody has given advice on what to watch, but I'll assume you're referring to my post (correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not promoting any particular movie selections, and I am not giving advice on movie selections to watch. And in reference to August Underground, I *specifically* mentioned that those types of shock exploitation films were not something that most people would enjoy watching (thus, I advise AGAINST watching them), and that AU specifically was a "trigger" film and should not be taken lightly.

I brought it up not as advice or promotion, but rather as an example of "horror" films that most people would not enjoy, and also as an example of a fictional "gore" film that, for all intents and purposes, could be (and apparently on at least one occasion, has been) mistaken for a real torture/snuff film (as realistic as it is, it is all special effects). This blurs things between the ethics of watching a real "gore" film and a fake "gore" film, from the perspective of the viewer.

Again, if you weren't referring to my post, by all means ignore this. =) But, just to be perfectly clear: Even if someone reading this enjoys gory horror flicks, DO NOT WATCH shock exploitation films like August Underground. You will not like what you see. Their only purpose is to greatly disturb people, and they are very, very good at that.

 

[lawtonfogle]

So do you think think sexual issues should be less taboo or violent issues should be more taboo?

Both really. Violence only serves to hurt people. Sexuality can be enjoyable, can bring people really close together, and is kinda needed for society to keep going.

 

[JadeTigress]

Do you mind me asking why you watch it? If that is too personal then don't answer, but I'm just interested to understand it better. Personally I just don't want that sort of stuff to be stuck in my mind's eye for the rest of my life.

Honestly, I don't know. I just like that sort of stuff. Ever since I first watched stuff and found out that nothing bothers me (maybe that in itself should bother me?...), I've just kept watching it and I've been on a quest to find something that actually messes with me.

I wasn't a fan of August Underground. Simply because it was SO BORING. I only watched the first one, and it was so hard to get through that I havn't bothered watching the other two. Yeah, it's violent, but if I'm watching a movie I want there to be some sort of story. Even if it's a stupid story. If I'm just going to watch gore for the sake of gore, rather than for entertainment purposes, I'll go watch real stuff.

I liked Cannibal Holocaust, though.

 

[solarwave]

I'm not sure to whom this is directed, since I don't think anybody has given advice on what to watch, but I'll assume you're referring to my post (correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not promoting any particular movie selections, and I am not giving advice on movie selections to watch. And in reference to August Underground, I *specifically* mentioned that those types of shock exploitation films were not something that most people would enjoy watching (thus, I advise AGAINST watching them), and that AU specifically was a "trigger" film and should not be taken lightly.

I brought it up not as advice or promotion, but rather as an example of "horror" films that most people would not enjoy, and also as an example of a fictional "gore" film that, for all intents and purposes, could be (and apparently on at least one occasion, has been) mistaken for a real torture/snuff film (as realistic as it is, it is all special effects). This blurs things between the ethics of watching a real "gore" film and a fake "gore" film, from the perspective of the viewer.

Again, if you weren't referring to my post, by all means ignore this. =) But, just to be perfectly clear: Even if someone reading this enjoys gory horror flicks, DO NOT WATCH shock exploitation films like August Underground. You will not like what you see. Their only purpose is to greatly disturb people, and they are very, very good at that.

I don't know who exactly I was directing it to, but I see how you meant it now.

Both really. Violence only serves to hurt people. Sexuality can be enjoyable, can bring people really close together, and is kinda needed for society to keep going.

I agree with what you are saying, but don't you think child sexual abuse is rightly a taboo though? To say you like child porn would seem to say it is ok, don't you think? I guess you would have to distinguish between various kinds.

 

[solarwave]

Honestly, I don't know. I just like that sort of stuff. Ever since I first watched stuff and found out that nothing bothers me (maybe that in itself should bother me?...), I've just kept watching it and I've been on a quest to find something that actually messes with me.

Do you think it is because you empathise less with the victim or that you naturally distance yourself from what you see?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[JadeTigress]

Do you think it is because you empathise less with the victim or that you naturally distance yourself from what you see?

Thanks for the reply.

Maybe both. I've noticed the same thing with pretty much everything else, too, not just violence. It's like if it's not happening to me directly, my brain just goes "meh". But I've got some psych problems, so my brain is obviously not normal. So maybe it has something to do with that.