Colossians 2.16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
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What should I do to have eternal life?
- Thread starter Charlesinflorida
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The new birth is the result of believing into the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. We, by faith, believe into this and are thereby raised up with Him into newness of life. This new life we have is the righteousness of God, has the nature of God, and cannot sin.
1 Peter 1:3 KJV
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 John 5:1 KJV
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Ephesians 2:1-10 KJV
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
....
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Colossians 2:12-13 KJV
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1 John 3:9 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Peter 1:3 KJV
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 John 5:1 KJV
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Ephesians 2:1-10 KJV
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
....
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Colossians 2:12-13 KJV
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1 John 3:9 KJV
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
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LynneClomina
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Charlesinflorida said:
what mistake of the church fathers, exactly, are you meaning? i dont know much about that.
and i believe the kingdom is already here, so right there our perspective is going to be way different!!!
blessings,
Lynne
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I repeat
Colossians 2.16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Colossians 2.16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
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Jim B said:
Sorry Jim,
I did not respond because I was off line for a while. The believers in Collosea were Gentiles. They had begun to do the things that are prescribed in Torah, the feast days ect, however the non Believing Jews and also a small sect of belieing Jews who believed that a Gentile must first convert to be a Jew before they could be accepted as a believer in Messiah. These two groups were criticizing these Gentiles for trying to live as Torah observant people. They felt that these were for the Jews only. (Please note that to be part of Judaism was a great priviledge with many social benefits in that day.) Paul assures them that they do in fact have the right to take part in all those things and are now joint heirs with the Jews though a grafting in by faith in Yeshua. The center wall, the thing that divided (Jew from Gentile
) was not a physical wall as some teach as this wall remained until 70 AD, and was not torn down by Yeshua in any way. The word used is actually hedge, and refers to the oral Torah, the rabinical laws that made an ethnic distinction betwen Jews and Gentiles, placing the latter as inferior to the former. Paul says don't let any one criticize you for observing the things God gave because of Messiah you too are free to take part in them.
I know this is a different way of viewing it. But look at the rest of the first chapter that sets the tone for this verse.
Charles in Florida
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LynneClomina said:what mistake of the church fathers, exactly, are you meaning? i dont know much about that.
and i believe the kingdom is already here, so right there our perspective is going to be way different!!!
blessings,
Lynne
The Kingdom is not here in the fulfness of what is coming, but we are priviledged to live in a kingdom way already. I would suggest you do a study of the Kingdom and see what its features are. You will be surprised to see the Biblical feast days ae in action including Temple service and sacrifies.
The mistakes of the church are endless. You can see at a glance that the church over the centuries in no way resembles the church of the New testament. But if you want, there are some really good books too like focilized customs, or the two babylons by alssop.
Charles in Florida
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didaskalos said:
I hope that you are not saying that those who are saved never again sin, because I don't believe that is true.
Yeshuas desire was to unshackle the true Torah from mans religion, so that it could once again be the blessing God intended it to be.
The scriptures say that Yeshua fulfiled the law. Isn't that the same as putting an end to it?
Not at all. If that were so then Matt 5:17 has no meaning. Some teach that since Jesus kept all the law perfectly that we are no longer obligated to do so, or, that it refers to his prophetically fulfilling the law. But we must look at the word "fulfil" to see what he was saying. Fulfil in the Greek means to "Fully establish, or correctly apply, to set upon a firm foundation". (see strongs). What Jesus was doing was correctly explaining how the law was to be kept. What is called Halacha. Look at the verses that follow and we see that he is doing just that, taking the law that was written and applying it to the heart, making it a spiritual law as it was meant to be.
MT 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee; [24] Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. [25] Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. [26] Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
If you are born of the spirit as you indicate then the Law of God is written on your heart and becomes a life direction that assists you in walking in the light of God.
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LynneClomina
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Charlesinflorida said:
can you direct me to verses, please?
i am curious.
thanks!
Lynne
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LynneClomina
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Charlesinflorida said:
what about the veil... 2 Corinthians 3:12-18
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech-- 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
it sounds to me the OT would be a hard one to understand without Christ. it is only a shadow, not a crystal clear view, of God's plans and purposes for us. He gave us the crystal clear view in the NT. so, isnt going "back" to OT "ways" going again into the shadow? behind the veil?
Charlesinflorida said:
i dont believe that either.... Jesus RAISED the standard, made the law even tougher. ie.
Matthew 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, F20 'You shall not commit adultery.' F21 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality F22 causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
we dont need the OT to tell us how to live anymore, Jesus gave us a better (ie: higher standard) way. in that way we dont NEED the OT law.
and besides, didnt people in OT times do things "legally" that NOW according to the laws of Christ would be deemed sin? isnt it that the law didnt really help in that way, that because of man's being only able to understand in part, He had grace on them in that they could only obey what they could understand, and now we understand a lot more......
thanks, Lynne
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iktca said:
Thanks,
I will look forward to future discussions. Where in Florida are you by the way. I am near Gainsville.
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LynneClomina said:
Hi Lynne,
There are several places that speak of these things. One is Zech 14
ZEC 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
And more specifically Ezekiel from the 40th Chapter on are details about the Millenial Temple, and is services, sacrifices, priesthood ect.
Chales in Florida
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LynneClomina said:
I think you are right about that. But Yeshua DID unshackle the Torah from religion, the tons of extra stuff that was added by men making it such a burden than no man could carry. AND then he removed the veil from those who are filled with his spirit, so that now for the irst time we can see the Torah as Moshe must have seen it. Paul was a pharisee, which means an expert in Torah. In fact he studied at the feet of Gamaliel, one of the great ones and Pauls was considered a prodogy child. Yet after encountering Yeshua on the road to Damascus, he had to take a few years and re-align what he knew about Torah. Because now he saw Torah in the brilliant light of Messiah Yeshua. This is why in another place I pointed out that we need to understand Pauls writings from their Hebraic context, because everything he writes is based in a correct Torah understanding.We as believers in Yeshua and filled with the Holy Spirit are for the first time able to do Torah correctly, and that does not mean to throw it out the window, it means to apply its deep principle to our hearts. We don't have recorded for us every thing that Yeshua said and taught do we? No. But we do have his Torah, (Yes he wrote it in the beginning) and by reading Torah we discover all he rest of the teachings that Messiah gave us. Everything he taught is Torah principles.
Torah wasn't lacking, it was perfect. Reemember Paul said the Law was not weak, but rather it was the flesh that was weak and unable to properly apply the law. But now by the spirit the Torah is restored to what is was meant to be rom the beginning.
LynneClomina said:
As I said above, we do not have every word Yeshua said recorded. But through Torah properly understood through the spirit, we DO have his teachings. We should apply all these as well.
LynneClomina said:and besides, didnt people in OT times do things "legally" that NOW according to the laws of Christ would be deemed sin? isnt it that the law didnt really help in that way, that because of man's being only able to understand in part, He had grace on them in that they could only obey what they could understand, and now we understand a lot more......
thanks, Lynne
The American Judicial system did not invent the "Loop Hole". The Jews did that a long time ago with the law. They redified over and over again what was right and what was not, to such a point that it took a lawyer to understand what was written. Again, the shackles of religion.
I don't think any of us have seen "The Big Picture" as they say. God has a plan and he is working his plan. Part of this plan was to bring Messiah into play and to redeem all of creation, AND to saved he Gentiles bringing them into the sheep fold. This had to be done at a certain time. We don't really know why. Until that time came, God needed to establish a priesthood as a witness to the nations, (Israel) and reveal his Glory (through Israel) and prepare a pure line of flesh all the way from Adam to the birth of Messiah (which he did through Israel as well.) (see note below *)I think the big picture is when Messiah reigns over all the nations in the Millenial Kingdom. But in each step of the plan, God extends his mercy according to the amount of light which a man has had. We are judged righteously and fairly. We who have had the blessing of his spirit will receive the most stern judgment, because we have had both grace and knowledge and have walked in the light of the spirit.
* note. There is an intersting comment made concerning Noah Gen 8. It was said that the Lord saved him because he was "pure in all his generations". I believe this is speaking of his genetic line. The world of that day had been corrupted by the intermarriage of fallen angels with mankind. If Satan could get all flesh to interbread, there would be no pure line to bring forth Messiah in fulfillment of the promise to Adam. So in his mercy God cleanses the earth of the halfbreads and preserves a pure blood line from Adam to Yeshua, preparing a body for Messiah.
Charles in Florida
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LynneClomina
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Charlesinflorida said:
hi charles, and thank you....
knowing that i am ignorant of most OT things, what exactly is the feast of tabernacles? and how does it relate to the temple being us, and not a building?
thanks muchly! Lynne
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LynneClomina
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CIF, what in Ezekial 40+ pegs it as millenial to you? i dont see anything, myself. oh, and i believe we are in the millenium... i understand that due to the lack of a definate article before "thousand" in rev. that it actually means A thousand, not THE thousand, and that "thousand" is actually plural, and that "thousands of years", colloqually, meant the same THEN as "millions of years", or "gazillions of years" does to us NOW... just meant a very loooong time of undetermened length, not an actual, specific 1000 years.
thanx,
Lynne
thanx,
Lynne
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LynneClomina said:
The feat of Tabernacles is the feast that celebrates God living with us. It is the most joyous of the feast days and runs 8 days taking place in Sept to oct on the roman calendar.
The millenial Kingdom does not begin until the Lord returns and literally sits upon Davids throne in Jerusalem and rules over the nations. Also in Ezekiel, the description of that temple is different than the previous temples and has different features. Even the priesthood is not historical, but is prophetic. It is Messiah the King who will be high priest. In the past, priest and King are from separate tribes. Also the most important event of the year in Temple operations, the ay of Atonement is missing in the Ezekiel temple. Ezekeil did not simply overlook this by mistake, for he himself was a priest.
Charles in Florida
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