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What should be taken literal?

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Beowulf

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versastyle said:
You don't know. In fact your Bible tells you so.
MY bible?
Do you have another?

I'm curious as to where myth ends and the real/historical begins as I believe is the purpose of the topic. I want to know how people here stand on Abraham for instance. Is our faith based on a promise made to a fictitious character? Are the 12 tribes of Israel fictitious for Genesis ends with the development of those 12 tribes. The salvation of Egypt from bondage. an event so fundemental to the christian faith has origin in Genesis in that Israel and all his household travels to and abides in Egypt, about 70 in all. Does evolution require Abraham, Joseph, Israel, Jacob and Isaac to be myth also? Genesis is about origins/beginnings. The christian faith finds it's origins in that book.
 
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versastyle

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Beowulf said:
MY bible?
Do you have another?
No.

I'm curious as to where myth ends and the real/historical begins as I believe is the purpose of the topic. I want to know how people here stand on Abraham for instance. Is our faith based on a promise made to a fictitious character? Are the 12 tribes of Israel fictitious for Genesis ends with the development of those 12 tribes. The salvation of Egypt from bondage. an event so fundemental to the christian faith has origin in Genesis in that Israel and all his household travels to and abides in Egypt, about 70 in all. Does evolution require Abraham, Joseph, Israel, Jacob and Isaac to be myth also? Genesis is about origins/beginnings. The christian faith finds it's origins in that book.
I've only really intuitively studied historical accuracies in the beginning of Genesis.

I personally would have no problem with the entire chapter of Genesis being left out. Its a nice story, but it does nothing to build faith.
 
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versastyle

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mhess13 said:
As I said in another thread. Things could have happened exactly as the Bible states, historically word for word. Things may not have happened that way. The question of historically accuracy isn't really the point of the bible IMHO. I have faith in what the bible says because of its implications on life, faith and the pursuit of joy and love. If you test the bibles relevant questions, such as the meaningfulness of tithes and of being honest and caring, you end up being HAPPY and full of joy, exactly as promised.

I can't test the historical claims of the bible on a personal level. And if I were to test these claims as Paul suggests, using the only resources one has, the physical world, the claims fail miserably. Yet I will stil recognize I could be wrong either way.

So.....

I choose not to have faith in the historical claims Genesis, nor do I have faith in any alternatives.
 
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versastyle

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Beowulf said:
I'm not asking about Jesus.
Did Abraham exist?
I don't know.

I will say this. I think its likely Abraham existed as a true person or something of the sort, but however I do not believe that every single word spoken about Abraham and other things about that time period that are in the bible are historically accurate.
 
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mhess13

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versastyle said:
But this is a relevant question. Did Jesus exist? I say yes, because that is important to me.
With all due respect, it certainly looks as if you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe. Even worse, you pick and choose based on what is important to YOU. This is worldly and goes against the teachings of the Bible
 
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versastyle

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mhess13 said:
With all due respect, it certainly looks as if you pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe.
No. I believe in what is relevant to salvation.

Even worse, you pick and choose based on what is important to YOU. This is worldly and goes against the teachings of the Bible
So? LOL. The bible isn't my savior.

You may want to check on your definition of worldly, biblically that is. ;)
 
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Beowulf

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This is the 8th article of faith of the Mormon Church.

8) We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly;"... sound familiar?
Notice the condition placed on the bible and no condition what-so-ever placed on the book of mormon. Translated correctly or read correctly still places a condition on the bible and allows a loophole by which one can pick and choose what one wants to believe or not. By this condition doctrine can be manipulated in any manner that one sees fit.

Further, there is no such condition placed on the book of mormon or evolution. Both are to be believed unconditionally. I've seen no conditions as far as evolution is concerned.

The following is the entire list of their articles of faith or statement of faith.

-----------------

1) We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2) We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3) We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4) We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5) We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6) We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7) We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8) We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9) We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10) We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11) We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12) We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13) We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
 
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Beowulf

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9) We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

This is what the mormon calls "progressive revelation". Evolution follows this same principle in that it relies on what "scientific conclusion" will yet reveal pertaining to the Kingdom of God. In this manner the doctrines of today can be changed to fit what is necessary to fit the doctrines of tomorrow whatever that may be.
 
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versastyle

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Beowulf said:
This is what the mormon calls "progressive revelation". Evolution follows this same principle in that it relies on what "scientific conclusion" will yet reveal pertaining to the Kingdom of God. In this manner the doctrines of today can be changed to fit what is necessary to fit the doctrines of tomorrow whatever that may be.
I agree with a lot of what they say. I also disagree. I can argue for and against them, and make logical points for both. So, if you say I am this "sect" of a church, or this "sect", so be it, if you need classifications to clarify who is who among us, that is your choice.

I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins and I am thankful for that sacrifice.
 
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