What separates "fake" Christians from "true" Christians?

[The Fire Rises]

I just want your honest opinion, that's it.

Lately, I see lots of people talking about how some are not true christians.

But I never really see much elaboration. They just make the accusation...and then leave.

Please, don't be shy. Just say what you mean and mean what you say. Hopefully, there won't too many arguments/disagreements over this.

Blessings, all

 

[krugerpark]

They exist and what we used to consider the church in North America is now full of them, some of them ignorant, some not. We have been expecting this and one of the main agendas the devil has is to get Christians to stop caring/participating/taking responsibility for what the government does.

 

[jehoiakim]

Christ says you shall know them by their fruit and by there love so if they don't have either or both... danger

 

[krugerpark]

The first place we want to be in as Christians is danger. The bible talks about fighting. Most people misunderstand love as hate the way the bible explains it. This is an ignorant, dumb population, no smarter than the one Jesus spoke to in his time on Galilee

 

[achristian2]

Christ says you shall know them by their fruit and by there love so if they don't have either or both... danger

I agree. There's also another one. That is no matter how tough it gets being a Christian, they are still Christians (doesn't mean they have never strayed before or sin). That's because they love Christ more than anything.

A godly man once said and I paraphrase : Christ is for those men and women desperately clinging and banging on the doors to be Christians.

 

[Willie T]

Christ says you shall know them by their fruit and by there love so if they don't have either or both... danger

Where? (the "good" ones, I mean.)

 

[renewed21]

I just want your honest opinion, that's it.

Lately, I see lots of people talking about how some are not true christians.

But I never really see much elaboration. They just make the accusation...and then leave.

Please, don't be shy. Just say what you mean and mean what you say. Hopefully, there won't too many arguments/disagreements over this.

Blessings, all

That's a hard one to draw a line in the sand on. I too seek the absolutes on this issue. So here's my 2 centson what defines a true Christian:

1. Believes Christ is God
2. Believes Christ died for our sins and our salvation
3. Believes the Bible is God's Word
4. Keeps His commands
5. Loves God
6. Loves his brother

 

[jehoiakim]

Sorry I am not sure what you are asking so I am making assumptions

When you say "where" are you looking for a reference on the fruit part since you bolded that one?

Matt 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

Or do you mean where are Christians that can be recognized by their fruits... many of them I think I sadly in countries where they are tried daily and face persecution, American Christianity is sadly quite overcome with materialism and a watered down self help gospel

 

[If Not For Grace]

Hopefully, there won't too many arguments/disagreements over this.

Really? Ok..with that in mind I'll say that the separation is as it as historically been..between the dogmatic "religious" bunch and the "pragmatic" spiritual bunch each convinced it's way is the only and the correct wa and that the other side is in error. Neither side wants much to do with the other lest a conversion be involved.

Different dog same fleas as the pharisees & sadduceees, Luther & the Church of England. There is the "I don't smoke, I don't drink & I don't run with those who do" crowd.. (Usually also the flavor of the month with influence among local groups) to the Liberal embracing love evangelists. The two groups are usually at odds but don't bother each other too much.

In other words those who practice what they preach vs those who just yap are the obvious difference, but You don't have to be an Elmer Gantry to be fake any more than you have to be the Apostle Paul to be spiritual. The True FAKEs (pun intended)IMO are the ones who preach Jesus and Grace but still require something anything for you to be saved..(whether its Baptism, the Echaristic, Tongues, a certain diet, no musical instruments or some specific manner of dress, no tatoos, handling snakes) whatever in order to BE SAVED...and in God's will.

Now these people truly believe they are correct and just in their belief system (just like the P&S) and that they are doing you a favor letting you know how wrong anyone else is who might deviate from their pe-boxed neatly packaged version of religion is. In fact unless you conform completely to whatever it is they require (these requirments vary by denominations for lack of a better word) you are "out of God's will" and are less than they in some way..and it is their duty to correct you or if you will not conform exlcude/excommunicate you or least peanlize you for your "sin". These people don't fool the rest of em to often, mostly themselves. Now there are real Christians among them, but they are generally out numbered and only serve in true working/service areas of the branch. They do their best to operate w/in the system and change it.

So same old story- its like a bunch of mini-civil wars..Nothing new in the church world since Martin Luther... ) This is why they ALL say there will be alot less people iin heaven than we think.. JMO..YANN

P

 

[Willie T]

Sorry I am not sure what you are asking so I am making assumptions

When you say "where" are you looking for a reference on the fruit part since you bolded that one?

Matt 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

Or do you mean where are Christians that can be recognized by their fruits... many of them I think I sadly in countries where they are tried daily and face persecution, American Christianity is sadly quite overcome with materialism and a watered down self help gospel

No, I meant just what you said... "Where does it say you will know good Christians by their fruit." But Matthew 7:16 is talking about being able to recognize False Teachers (Prophets), not Christians.

 

[jehoiakim]

well it is talking about false teachers, but especially if you jump to vs18 doesn't it seem like this principal could be applied to more then just false teachers?

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

I understand that this scripture is talking about false teachers, but I think this verse is being more general then that. for instance if you sall a Christian swindling someone wouldn't you be skeptical that they had actually made a commitment to Christ. I am not saying this is a clear cut test, just a general principal, certainly we all fall at times and I am not saying salvation does not come from grace alone. But if a faith is genuine a person will start to transform, slow and faulted as it might be over time we should be able to spot it. There are a lot of times I can spot Believers a mile away because of their patience, love and kindness toward others and their peacemaking. Are all who have those traits believers, certainly not, but it can be a good indicator you may have found one.

If you would like to try another scripture how about...
James 2... Faith without works is dead? does that work for you...

If you are being as stickler for this grace thing and believe I am pushing works (i'm not) along a similar theme in James 2 there is also the verses Even the demons believe in God (and in the gospels they recognize Christ's authority) but they are not saved... And in Matthew 7 just after the References we were talking to there is the whole many will come to me saying Lord, Lord and I will say away from me I never knew you.

 

[saskcanada4christ]

I don't think that there is not a true christian to be honest. Humans are to flawed to be a true "Christian". We are are to judgmental and we live in sin to much. I think we can be forgiving for our sins and repent but does that still make us a true christian....No. A true christian I would think you would almost have to be like Christ in which we are aren't. Mahatma Ghandi quoted once “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” This is my point of view thats all. I believe in Christ but am i a true christian probably not.

 

[renewed21]

I don't think that there is not a true christian to be honest. Humans are to flawed to be a true "Christian". We are are to judgmental and we live in sin to much. I think we can be forgiving for our sins and repent but does that still make us a true christian....No. A true christian I would think you would almost have to be like Christ in which we are aren't. Mahatma Ghandi quoted once “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” This is my point of view thats all. I believe in Christ but am i a true christian probably not.

He quotes Ghandi about Christianity. This is all you need to know.

 

[If Not For Grace]

He quotes Ghandi about Christianity. This is all you need to know.

Just because one is from an eastern relgion/culture does not disqualify him from making a realistic observation regarding a western relgion. Not Many true Christians is even Biblical "and I shall say depart from me I never knew you" Mat 7:23 Might be something we should all consider.

 

[renewed21]

Just because one is from an eastern relgion/culture does not disqualify him from making a realistic observation regarding a western relgion. Not Many true Christians is even Biblical "and I shall say depart from me I never knew you" Mat 7:23 Might be something we should all consider.

Well, yes it does exactly. A non-Christian wouldn't have the basis to comment on what a true Christian was or wasn't.

But that was not my point anyway.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Concerning a Bishop it speaks of having a good report with those who are without

1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

If Ghandi heard or read of Christ and said he liked him, but those not walking as the Christ (he did like) turned him off, could indicate the fault was their own in a sense.

 

[Willie T]

well it is talking about false teachers, but especially if you jump to vs18 doesn't it seem like this principal could be applied to more then just false teachers?

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

I understand that this scripture is talking about false teachers, but I think this verse is being more general then that. for instance if you sall a Christian swindling someone wouldn't you be skeptical that they had actually made a commitment to Christ. I am not saying this is a clear cut test, just a general principal, certainly we all fall at times and I am not saying salvation does not come from grace alone. But if a faith is genuine a person will start to transform, slow and faulted as it might be over time we should be able to spot it. There are a lot of times I can spot Believers a mile away because of their patience, love and kindness toward others and their peacemaking. Are all who have those traits believers, certainly not, but it can be a good indicator you may have found one.

If you would like to try another scripture how about...
James 2... Faith without works is dead? does that work for you...

If you are being as stickler for this grace thing and believe I am pushing works (i'm not) along a similar theme in James 2 there is also the verses Even the demons believe in God (and in the gospels they recognize Christ's authority) but they are not saved... And in Matthew 7 just after the References we were talking to there is the whole many will come to me saying Lord, Lord and I will say away from me I never knew you.

No, I'm simply trying to point out that someone might look at you or me and not see what they think is the appropriate amount, or type, or quality of fruit to call it "good fruit" in their estimation... thereby labeling us both as not being true Christians.

For instance, in the past couple of days, someone here posted how they had had themselves thousands of "conversions", but they said that they read about a missionary that only had a few, over several years time. I think they expressed the thought that there was "something wrong" in this.

That is why I think we can find ourselves very much in the wrong by going about inspecting the fruit others produce... expecting that to prove their Christianity.

 

[If Not For Grace]

There was a thread even titled "Is Billy Graham a Christian" which turned into a political debate--How can we even debate whether someone credited for the work that man has done free from public scandal and call ourselves Christians? I'd like to see the rest of us hold up to the scruitny that ministry has had. No then again I would not..., it's the judgmental mentality....and it plagues us all through osmosis if not other ways.

 

[HiLo]

I just want your honest opinion, that's it.

Lately, I see lots of people talking about how some are not true christians.

But I never really see much elaboration. They just make the accusation...and then leave.

Please, don't be shy. Just say what you mean and mean what you say. Hopefully, there won't too many arguments/disagreements over this.

Blessings, all

You can always tell who the "fake" Christians are because they are always the ones telling others, who is or isn't a Christian.

 

[Willie T]

You can always tell who the "fake" Christians are because they are always the ones telling others, who is or isn't a Christian.

Like Jesus did?