What saves a person?

Controversial groups?? You consider the one Church Jesus Christ founded, to which He promised the fullness of truth - the only Church that existed for the first 1,000 years of Christianity - a "controversial group"?? Then which one of the 6,000+ unauthorized conflicting manmade denominations of Protestantism is right? Not all of them obviously because truth cannot conflict with truth, which means that untruth is being taught by most (or all) of them.

PaulCyp1 said:

Controversial groups?? You consider the one Church Jesus Christ founded, to which He promised the fullness of truth - the only Church that existed for the first 1,000 years of Christianity - a "controversial group"?? Then which one of the 6,000+ unauthorized conflicting manmade denominations of Protestantism is right? Not all of them obviously because truth cannot conflict with truth, which means that untruth is being taught by most (or all) of them.

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The "ONLY CHURCH" is all those that have faith and trust in the work of Christ on the cross for their salvation. We are all Christ's children.. no matter how much we bicker and fight over who is the favorite..

In fact.. Christ loves everyone the same.. believers and non.

Neostarwcc said:

Oh yeah. My wife and I were baptized as infants because of that. I half wish that I didnt get baptized as an infant because I kinda want to get baptized again. I want to make a public declaration of Christ and my wife just doesnt want to gert baptized again. But those who believe Baptism is a requirement for salvation will put pressure on those who were baptized as infants getting rebaptized.

Yes John 3:16 does say it all. I don't believe in baptism salvation or baptismal regeneration at all.

In a perfect world Christians wouldn't be so divided but every Christian is condemning the other and its just like... What the hell. It prevents people from converting to Christianity and it doesn't make understanding salvation any easier. We should be united.

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I too, don't hold to the view that Baptism is necessary for salvation.
I think that it is important and should be done in obedience to Christ.

I think it would be perfectly fine for you to be Baptized now, as a believer. Certainly cannot do any harm. It is meant to be a public profession of your faith. However, there should be no pressure to do so.

As for the divisions.. we are told not to be stumbling blocks to non believers and young/new believers. Yet, somehow I feel that religion, and all it's man imposed concepts, is one of the biggest deterrents to people coming to Christ.

Neostarwcc said:

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

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God has chosen us to salvation through two things and not just one.


So God has chosen us to salvation through:


If one is not in meeting these two qualifications for salvation, then they do not have it according to this verse. Remember, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it (Matthew 7:14). To my experience and knowledge: Most believe they can sin and still be saved (on some level) by having a belief on Jesus. But Jesus did not tell the Pharisees to not worry about their sinful living and just trust in Him. No, no. Most certainly not. Jesus condemned their wrongful actions. Meaning, they had to change their lifestyle along with seeking God's forgiveness.

For if a man cheats on his wife and tells her that she is sorry and he does not stop cheating on her and just says he is sorry alone and has no intention of ever stopping because he feels he cannot help himself, he is not truly sorry. A person who is truly sorry over their sin will stop sinning and they will not make excuses to justify their wrong doing.

Neostarwcc said:

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

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Faith saves.

Neostarwcc said:

So just asking Jesus for salvation is enough to get it? God does the rest?

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Yes, you must believe in Jesus in order to be saved. Salvation is granted to us through Jesus Christ, this gift of our reconciliation to God is not a merit based contract.

Salvation is a free gift and that gift is freely given to anyone, who calls on the name of Jesus.

As I said before, if any level of sin is a condition of salvation, then no one can be saved.

Jason0047 said:

God has chosen us to salvation through two things and not just one.

"...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
(2 Thessalonians 2:13).​

So God has chosen us to salvation through:

(a) Belief of the truth (i.e. Jesus - John 14:6).
(b) Sanctification of the Spirit (Holy living by the power of the Spirit).​

If one is not in meeting these two qualifications for salvation, then they do not have it according to this verse. Remember, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it (Matthew 7:14). To my experience and knowledge: Most believe they can sin and still be saved (on some level) by having a belief on Jesus. But Jesus did not tell the Pharisees to not worry about their sinful living and just trust in Him. No, no. Most certainly not. Jesus condemned their wrongful actions. Meaning, they had to change their lifestyle along with seeking God's forgiveness.

For if a man cheats on his wife and tells her that she is sorry and he does not stop cheating on her and just says he is sorry alone and has no intention of ever stopping because he feels he cannot help himself, he is not truly sorry. A person who is truly sorry over their sin will stop sinning and they will not make excuses to justify their wrong doing.

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Have you stopped sinning?

klutedavid said:

Have you stopped sinning?

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Only God can truly know my heart and life, but I believe I generally walk uprightly with God most days.... "yes."
So based on your question, I am assuming you have not stopped sinning. So if this is the case, what sins do you think you are doing that God is okay with? Do you care to look at these sins in light of what the Bible says?

klutedavid said:

Have you stopped sinning?

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I want to add that believers can on rare occasion stumble, but they do not generally live unholy lives. Their life is characterized by holiness and not disobedience to God.

Think of it like this:

The man of God is sort of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program who may stumble on occasion on his road to recovery, but he will in time recover and or overcome his sin of alcoholism.

The OSAS proponent is kind of like the alcoholic who joins a drug program just to please a family member (to look good to others) but they have no real intention of giving up their demon in the bottle because they make excuses that stopping in such a sin is impossible. In one way, they are right. On their own it is impossible. But little do they realize that with God, all things are possible.

Also, when I talk about stopping from sin, this is in context to grievous sin and not minor transgressions or faults like going over the speed limit, or not taking out the trash yesterday like you knew you should have. For not all sin is the same. There is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17). Sins not unto death are minor faults and not grievous sins (that can keep a person out of God's Kingdom unless they repent, i.e. seek the Lord's forgiveness).

klutedavid said:

Yes, you must believe in Jesus in order to be saved. Salvation is granted to us through Jesus Christ, this gift of our reconciliation to God is not a merit based contract.

Salvation is a free gift and that gift is freely given to anyone, who calls on the name of Jesus.

As I said before, if any level of sin is a condition of salvation, then no one can be saved.

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Gifts can be lost do to negligence or lack of care for that gift.

klutedavid said:

Yes, you must believe in Jesus in order to be saved. Salvation is granted to us through Jesus Christ, this gift of our reconciliation to God is not a merit based contract.

Salvation is a free gift and that gift is freely given to anyone, who calls on the name of Jesus.

As I said before, if any level of sin is a condition of salvation, then no one can be saved.

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Also, is a husband truly sorry if he keeps saying to his wife he is sorry while he keeps sleeping around on her? Yes, or no?

What a great question. Here's my short answer:

This is an overarching theme of scripture and it's why faith is the only essential to salvation (e.g. Paul in Romans, Jesus in John 3 & 6, etc.). Contrary to claims by detractors like Richard Dawkins, Biblical faith is not and has never been believing a list of facts without evidence. Instead, Biblical faith is always personal, cooperative trust in the Creator God who discloses his nature (Romans 1:20), His character (Exodus 34:6-7) his mind, will and emotions, (Hebrews 1:1-2).

In Hebrews 11:6, the author explains why faith (i.e. active relational confidence) is vital; in order to please God you have to 1) be convinced that Yahweh is a Person you can know and 2) that your efforts to know Him will bear fruit.

The testimony of scripture affirms God as the only Source and Sustainer of life and and the universe (Genesis 1:1, Psalm, 19, Psalm 139:13, John 1:1-4, Romans 1:20, Hebrews 1:3, Colossians 1:16...). Apart from a connection to Him, no one can exist. I like to picture a fan plugged into a wall; in itself it has no power. Unplugged from the wall it will continue to spin but inevitably will stop, never to continue again until connected to the source of energy. Sin, is rebellion, a rejection of God as the trustworthy Source of goodness, love and life. Hence, sin always results in death and decay, the opposite of who Yahweh is (Matthew 22:32).

In the Gospel (the good news about the Kingdom/Rule of God being re-established on earth - see Mark 1:14), Jesus is the fulfillment of all of Yahweh's promises (Seed of Eve, Seed of Abraham, Lion of Judah, Seed of David) as well as the vindicator of God's faithfulness and compassion along with with his justice (Romans 3:26). Through the blood of Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away sin, we are brought into a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31, Hebrews 8:8), a new situation in which God's character (i.e. law) are written internally and in which everyone can interpersonally know God as a Father because we are made alive in the Son (Romans 6, Ephesians 1) through the Holy Spirit. We are now living inside the eternal love/life of the "happy land of the Trinity"(see Fred Sander's helpful book), or as Peter wrote:

John says it well: "He who has the Son, has life. He who does not have the Son of God, does not have life." (1 John 5:12) Eternal life is being in God's family by being in the Son. (2 Corinthians 5:17) Born of the Spirit into God's family, we are now able to inherit the same quality of life God enjoy (John 3:5-8, 1 Corinthians 15:42-56)

And that's Good News!

Jason0047 said:

Only God can truly know my heart and life, but I believe I generally walk uprightly with God most days.... "yes."
So based on your question, I am assuming you have not stopped sinning. So if this is the case, what sins do you think you are doing that God is okay with? Do you care to look at these sins in light of what the Bible says?

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What a vague answer to my question.

You generally walk uprightly?

What does that mean, maybe or maybe not?

Do you sin and does your sin prove that, you are not really repentant?

It is a black and white issue, either you are repentant or you are not repentant.

Jason0047 said:

Gifts can be lost do to negligence or lack of care for that gift.

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That has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Jason0047 said:

Also, is a husband truly sorry if he keeps saying to his wife he is sorry while he keeps sleeping around on her? Yes, or no?

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This is not the issue.

The question concerns the basis of the act of salvation, by Christ alone or by Christ and your holiness together.

Jason0047 said:

Also, when I talk about stopping from sin, this is in context to grievous sin and not minor transgressions or faults like going over the speed limit, or not taking out the trash yesterday like you knew you should have. For not all sin is the same. There is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17). Sins not unto death are minor faults and not grievous sins (that can keep a person out of God's Kingdom unless they repent, i.e. seek the Lord's forgiveness).

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This is the problem.

Sin is sin, whether your sin is minor or even great sin. It is sin and it is continuous sin, all sin is disobedience and rebellion.

Salvation is indeed found through trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. If that excludes Catholics and SDA's, then they are excluded.

Lucian Hodoboc said:

Why are Catholics a controversial group? They and the Orthodox constituted the original Church back in the time of the apostles. How did they become a controversial group?

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You may need to distinguish between lower case, catholics, and upper case, Roman Catholics. There was a conflict between eastern and western Christianity.

klutedavid said:

What a vague answer to my question.

You generally walk uprightly?

What does that mean, maybe or maybe not?

Do you sin and does your sin prove that, you are not really repentant?

It is a black and white issue, either you are repentant or you are not repentant.

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It means my daily walk is upright with God. Care to answer my question on what sins you may be committing that you feel you are automatically forgiven by having a belief on Jesus? I answered your question, care to answer mine?