What REALLY happened when Jesus died for our sins?

[BobRyan]

Hello, my brothers and sisters in Faith. I have a question that I've been thinking of a lot lately, and I was wondering if you guys could help me out. I have been asking this question to a lot of people lately: "What REALLY happened when Jesus died for our sins?"
The explanations in the Bible and the ones that I get from prayers are often cryptic, and only understandable by the heart and not really by the mind.
Often times people will say a couple of similar things. I will name those answers below and comment on the questions they raise to me. Maybe you could help me answer them.

(1) "Jesus has freed us/bought us from sin by sacrificing his pure human life. The Devil can't claim us anymore, like he could do before."
(??) But we aren't really free from sin now, are we? I mean, we are still tempted to do sinful things.

(2) "Jesus has fulfilled the law, embodied it and has therefore freed us from it."
(??) But Jesus said that the law is still every bit as important as it used to be, right? So what changed in our relationship with the law if we still need to follow it?

(3) "Jesus has built the ultimate bridge between humanity and God. Now each of us can have a personal relationship with God."
(??) But does that mean that a relationship with God was impossible before Jesus' death? Abraham, Jacob, Moses and tons of other people had contact with God, right? Also, Buddha for example was a highly spiritual person, so I suppose the Holy Spirit also flowed through him, right? So if prayer, divine inspiration and contact with God were all possible before the Cross, then what really changed in our relationship with God? What got bridged?

(4) "Jesus has freed all the people from purgatory and brought us the option to go to heaven." (I'm really not clear on this one)
(??) Yeah, I don't get the implications of Jesus' death and resurrection to the afterlife at all. So hell kind of existed before, but purgatory doesn't anymore? But people can still go to
hell, so we're not free, right? Also, was there a heaven for us people to go to before Jesus?

(last question) So my last question would be, what were the practical differences for a person before and after the cross? What really changed inside and outside of every person 2000 years ago? For example, what changed in the aboriginal people at that time? Were they also able to feel the planetary change that Jesus had ushered in?

Thank you so much for reading and answering my question. It really helps my development in Faith. If you guys could, I would really like you all to keep your answers as practical, simple and non-cryptic as possible. Thank you all .
Greats, Kees.

Good subject. Great questions.. big topic.

1. Hebrews 10:4-11 "the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sins"
2. Romans 4 "God calls those things that are not - as though they are"
3. Revelation 1 "Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
4. Gal 1:6-9 "there is only ONE Gospel"
5. Gal 3:8 "That Gospel was preached to Abraham"
6. 1 Cor 10:4 "They all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that Rock (petra) was Christ"
7. Hebrews 8:6-12 born again Christians are "under the NEW Covenant" where "the LAW of God is written on the heart and mind" - unchanged from Jeremiah 31:31-33
8. The New Covenant is the ONE Gospel that was preached to Abraham and still exists today. "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31. Under that NEW Covenant we are saved by grace through faith and have the LAW of God written on the heart.
9. 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD"
10 Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
11 1 John 2:2 "Jesus is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
12. Leviticus 16 "Atonement" requires more than "atoning sacrifice" it also requires the work of Christ as HIGH Priest in the Sanctuary of HEAVEN.
13. Hebrew 8:1-5 "the MAIN point is this - we have a High priest seated at the right hand of God in the sanctuary in heaven"
14 Colossians 2:12-14 Christ "nailed our certificate of debt" to the cross. those who accept the Gospel have that payment made for them as their case is brought before God through Jesus our High Priest in heaven.

Satan is not the one demanding the new birth or the death of Christ. It is God's holy unchanging law that demands it "the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23

Christ upholds the law in forgiving the sinner by upholding the debt / penalty that the law demands for sin.. .paying that debt for us.

 

[BobRyan]

Ah, okay then. That clears it up then. So the Jesus' death didn't have an effect on ALL of humanity?

Jesus is our high priest Hebrews 8:1. His death pays the debt of sin "for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2

But God has conditions for that payment - one must accept the Gospel which includes accepting the New Birth, which includes the "LAW written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:6-12. Not everyone chooses to accept that.

Matthew 7 "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father"
Romans 2:13 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified"
Romans 8:4-11 the wicked "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they"

 

[BobRyan]

My friend, thanks for the great effort, but this doesn't help me.
I don't understand your response as an answer to my question. Let me rephrase the question to a simpler one: Let's imagine there was a person named 'Klaus' who lived in what is now modern-day germany during the time of jesus's death where he was about 25 years old. However, Klaus had absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever of Abraham's God and Jesus Christ.
My question is: "What changed in Klaus' life after Jesus death and resureccion?"

Nothing.

He could have been saved before the cross just as after the cross. (but of course evangelism was rather poor just before the cross)

Notice in Matthew 17 - both Moses and Elijah stand "with Christ" in glory -- BEFORE the cross, on what we call the "mount of transfiguration".

Enoch went to heaven before the flood. (Genesis 5). Forgiven... born-again.. saved.. in Heaven.

Romans 2:13-16 says of the gentiles who have no access to the Bible at all in Paul's day - that some of them "do instinctively the things of of the LAW" -

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts,(New Covenant) their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Jesus' death is key to the Gospel - but God is not "bound by time" and does not wait for Jesus to die before taking Enoch to heaven or before forgiving sins and causing the New Birth.

 

[SolomonVII]

Guys, I'm sorry, but your answers are still to vague for me to understand. Let me rephrase the question to a simpler one: Let's imagine there was a person named 'Klaus' who lived in what is now modern-day germany during the time of jesus's death where he was about 25 years old. However, Klaus had absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever of Abraham's God and Jesus Christ.
My question is: "What changed in Klaus' life after Jesus death and resureccion?"

Well for one thing, Germany became Christian. The whole culture changed. People began to see themselves in an entirely different light. They began to see that even the lowliest of the low, a waif born in a manger in a shack outside of the inn, could be the King of the Universe, higher than all the Augustines that ever existed.
That was something that was inconceivable to Klaus before Christians came to Germany and evangelized Jesus.

 

[tdidymas]

Ah, okay then. That clears it up then. So the Jesus' death didn't have an effect on ALL of humanity?

Not sure where you are trying to go with this. I thought you were talking specifically about who was saved and who not. Jesus' death does have some effect on all of humanity. It's just that most people don't get eternal life because they don't believe in Him. The major effect is that whenever the gospel is preached, and someone doesn't believe, the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, as Jesus said "because they do not believe in Me." (John 16:9). So unbelievers who persist in their unbelief will incur a greater judgment in the end because they were told the truth about Christ and they rejected Him. A greater judgment because they are no longer ignorant.

Also, the world is generally a better world because of the long-term influence of Christians in it. Tyrants have been defeated, tortures are illegal in many lands, etc. Such improvement due to Christ's death and resurrection is called "common grace." The part of mankind who don't even know Him have their lives improved over the generations.

So when you say "didn't have an effect," I feel I need to qualify it. Not all of humanity will be saved, as attested in many verses of scripture. Only those who believe in Christ and obey the gospel message will be saved, that is, have eternal life.
TD

 

[Dave L]

Hello, my brothers and sisters in Faith. I have a question that I've been thinking of a lot lately, and I was wondering if you guys could help me out. I have been asking this question to a lot of people lately: "What REALLY happened when Jesus died for our sins?"
The explanations in the Bible and the ones that I get from prayers are often cryptic, and only understandable by the heart and not really by the mind.
Often times people will say a couple of similar things. I will name those answers below and comment on the questions they raise to me. Maybe you could help me answer them.

(1) "Jesus has freed us/bought us from sin by sacrificing his pure human life. The Devil can't claim us anymore, like he could do before."
(??) But we aren't really free from sin now, are we? I mean, we are still tempted to do sinful things.

(2) "Jesus has fulfilled the law, embodied it and has therefore freed us from it."
(??) But Jesus said that the law is still every bit as important as it used to be, right? So what changed in our relationship with the law if we still need to follow it?

(3) "Jesus has built the ultimate bridge between humanity and God. Now each of us can have a personal relationship with God."
(??) But does that mean that a relationship with God was impossible before Jesus' death? Abraham, Jacob, Moses and tons of other people had contact with God, right? Also, Buddha for example was a highly spiritual person, so I suppose the Holy Spirit also flowed through him, right? So if prayer, divine inspiration and contact with God were all possible before the Cross, then what really changed in our relationship with God? What got bridged?

(4) "Jesus has freed all the people from purgatory and brought us the option to go to heaven." (I'm really not clear on this one)
(??) Yeah, I don't get the implications of Jesus' death and resurrection to the afterlife at all. So hell kind of existed before, but purgatory doesn't anymore? But people can still go to
hell, so we're not free, right? Also, was there a heaven for us people to go to before Jesus?

(last question) So my last question would be, what were the practical differences for a person before and after the cross? What really changed inside and outside of every person 2000 years ago? For example, what changed in the aboriginal people at that time? Were they also able to feel the planetary change that Jesus had ushered in?

Thank you so much for reading and answering my question. It really helps my development in Faith. If you guys could, I would really like you all to keep your answers as practical, simple and non-cryptic as possible. Thank you all .
Greats, Kees.

penal-substitution theory of the atonement. The view that speaks of sin as the breaking of God’s law, for which the penalty is death. Hence on the cross Christ suffered the death penalty in the sinner’s place and so appeased the wrath of God. This theory was first proposed in the Reformation and later became the most widely held view among Protestants, especially evangelicals, in Britain and the United States.

Grenz, S., Guretzki, D., & Nordling, C. F. (1999). In Pocket dictionary of theological terms (p. 90). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.