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Who exactly were the morning stars? (I see that stars as angels, but there's more to it.) I don't see Jubilees 2 as a contradiction. The morning stars could have been created on day one, and more stars created on day four. They seem to be their abode. Stars don't move from their position in the celestial ball, angels do. I don't think they continually remain in the starlight but also have other forms, even as they appear to people throughout the bible, not just as lights. So again I go with my abode theory.
Yes, there are pros and cons on that subject but the sticking point for me is the formless and chaotic. If the LORD calls LIght into being doesn't it follow that he makes it perfect from the get go? Also there is the premise that the earth was flooded so really wasn't 'earth'.I agree that the morning stars are arch angels. Are you referring to creation before creation or gap theory? I understand that view but don't adhere. Everything including arch angels was created within six days. There was no creation before the six days.
[Exo 20:11 NIV] For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Yes, there's that too.That verse uses the word made (asah) instead of create (bara').
And i believe i have read that these two words actually have a different meaning. the asah may mean to create from preexisting material, where as bara' means to create for no previous material.
are you speaking of the Manna?-
Angels do eat so there is that. And the food they eat is food that we also can eat.
Men ate angels’ food;
He sent them food to the full
Picking up on your point about the sun is not a star, are all stars not on fire? If they are on fire, are they suns? Since planets and their moons are seen from earth, yet the light they shed is a reflection and not fire, does that make them stars?-My beliefs about stars 1. the sun is not a star, it is as the Bible states a great created light. 2. Stars are created lights that along with the moon (another created light) give light upon the earth at night. That stars are, as the sun and moon are, placed in the raqia (dome) above the earth. That somehow from their course in the heavens/sky/raqia, they helped in a battle fought against Sisera.
That it was a star, just like stated in The Bible that guided the wise men to The Messiah and that stood over where the child was.
That the stars will one day fall to earth like figs dropping from a fig tree.
I believe that what science calls planets, are actually stars.
Picking up on your point about the sun is not a star, are all stars not on fire? If they are on fire, are they suns? Since planets and their moons are seen from earth, yet the light they shed is a reflection and not fire, does that make them stars?
Picking up on your point about the sun is not a star, are all stars not on fire? If they are on fire, are they suns? Since planets and their moons are seen from earth, yet the light they shed is a reflection and not fire, does that make them stars?
Biblically sun, moon, and stars, are identified categorically and uniquely. Otherwise, the moon is a sun too.Picking up on your point about the sun is not a star, are all stars not on fire? If they are on fire, are they suns? Since planets and their moons are seen from earth, yet the light they shed is a reflection and not fire, does that make them stars?
From some thoughts from this thread - I made all things New I got to thinking about the stars.
Let's look at what they are from a Biblical perspective. And if we say we believe in G-d Whom we cannot see and we believe in Yeshua whom we also have never seen but believe the Words in the Bible then we must believe they are true.
Put aside, if you can, what you have been taught outside of any Bible lessons and even some of them are tainted and let's just focus on the words in the Bible only.
The first mention of Stars of course is in the beginning, in Genesis. Let's just quote the facts from there.
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness
Notice that the greater light (we call the sun) and the lesser light (we call the moon) was set in the firmament along with the stars.
Now I'm just going to quote passages that my hope is others will see what I'm seeing.
I've numbered them so you can use a number for a reference you want to discuss.
- “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
- “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me.”
- “I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; A Star shall come out of Jacob; A Scepter shall rise out of Israel, And batter the brow of Moab, And destroy all the sons of tumult.
- The Lord your God has multiplied you, and here you are today, as the stars of heaven in multitude.
- Your fathers went down to Egypt with seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven in multitude.
- They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.
- He commands the sun, and it does not rise; He seals off the stars...
- When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained
- When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
- “Is not God in the height of heaven? And see the highest stars, how lofty they are!
- He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name.
- Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!
- For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
- And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.
- The earth quakes before them, The heavens tremble; The sun and moon grow dark, And the stars diminish their brightness.
- “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
- There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
- raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
- The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
- Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.
- Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.
- Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
- “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
yes, I especially like his inclusion of Rev 9The late great Rob Skiba touched on the subject.
Angels as Stars?
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