What purpose does marriage serve?

[TheMissus]

Out-of-wedlock births in the United States have climbed to an all-time high, accounting for nearly four in 10 babies born last year, government health officials said Tuesday.

While out-of-wedlock births have long been associated with teen mothers, the teen birth rate actually dropped last year to the lowest level on record. Instead, births among unwed mothers rose most dramatically among women in their 20s.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_us/unmarried_births


Since marriage has increasingly not been necessary to raise children, what secular reasons are left for marriage? Why do we even bother? And how do our reasons for continuing the institution of marriage justify our current prohibitions on gay marriage?

(I know. It's another gay marriage thread. But that's not all it is.)

 

[rambot]

Secular?
Let's see
1) Well, it all depends on the individuals involved but I think that there are still quite a few people who feel that marriage is still a special kind of bond between two people (whether it is, ain't up for debate).
2) Tax credit
3) To boost census numbers
4) And marriage isn't necessary to raise children but to put it bluntly, I think a family unit makes it a lot easier for everyone involved.


ps....I LOVE that quote from Am. beauty missus....kudos

 

[christalee4]

Primarily the legal benefits; rights of inheritance, an organized unit of support backed by the law, especially in regards to children produced in the marriage. If one is not religious, more of a sense of commitment, as it is legally binding. I assume that's why atheists get married, not because they want to be recognized as a union under God, but for the other reasons. If there are others, let's hear them.

 

[KarateCowboy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_us/unmarried_births


Since marriage has increasingly not been necessary to raise children, what secular reasons are left for marriage? Why do we even bother? And how do our reasons for continuing the institution of marriage justify our current prohibitions on gay marriage?

(I know. It's another gay marriage thread. But that's not all it is.)

Now you know why we say we've been protecting marriage.

When the family falls apart, everything else goes down the drain as well. How can you raise good citizens without a good family?

 

[JGG]

When the family falls apart, everything else goes down the drain as well. How can you raise good citizens without a good family?

Are you saying you can't have a good family, or raise good citizens unless the parents are married? Explain please. Also a definition of a good family, and bad family would be appreciated.

 

[The Nihilist]

Now you know why we say we've been protecting marriage.

When the family falls apart, everything else goes down the drain as well. How can you raise good citizens without a good family?

Your suggestion that only good families can raise good citizens does not follow from what you've said. If you're serious, prove it.

 

[Vylo]

Special bond between 2 people. Benefits from marriage help establish families which are generally beneficial to society.

 

[Philothei]

It is in the Bible and also in our Christian Tradition that the sacrament and the institution of marriage was blessed by our Lord. Not the union between same sex people but opposite. Christ did not "write it down" but the Apostles who continued his mission tell us in the Gospels that this is so.

Also Christ by participating in the Sacrament of Marriage showed us that he believed in the sanctity of marriage. Wheather we like it or not God created man and woman to live together and multiply. The practical view of such a moral code and law would be to bring forth children who know who their parents are (!) so they do not end up marrying their brothers(!) and sisters(!) like the beasts do.

As far as gay marriages I do not believe that ecclesiastically have any place in the Christian Church. As far as the State goes I would not have an objection since I believe in separation of Religion and State, since it is secular. The activists for gay marriages can believe whatever as long as they do not come to my door to advocate their theories! I do not go outside their door advocating against their lifestyle...either.

The media is full of advocacy for their rights. It is my right to resist their propaganda too though.

I pray for them that they might see the light of Christ shinning upon their heats that some day they would see their true calling in Christ. I believe that God will judge us too about witnessing to them in love and respect. Trying not to judge them, but at the same time holding firm in our teachings as Christians.

Hope I made sense of what I am trying to say here...
Sorry for taking too long of a post.

Thanks,
In Chist,
God bless!

 

[Rae]

What purpose does marriage serve?

There is no one purpose for marriage. People marry for many different reasons. To show their love and commitment to each other. To combine property rights. Because they think their God(s) want them to. Ask the people who are in a marriage why they married. You'll get as many different answers as the couples you ask.

 

[No72]

1) Well, it all depends on the individuals involved but I think that there are still quite a few people who feel that marriage is still a special kind of bond between two people (whether it is, ain't up for debate).
2) Tax credit
3) To boost census numbers
4) And marriage isn't necessary to raise children but to put it bluntly, I think a family unit makes it a lot easier for everyone involved

*nods*
And perhaps also out the feeling, that it is "right", because the society does appreciate it as a whole, in the likeitornot christan tradition in the west.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Now you know why we say we've been protecting marriage.

By refusing to acknowledge other types of marriage?

When the family falls apart, everything else goes down the drain as well. How can you raise good citizens without a good family?

So protect the family. Stop telling everyone that marriage is a mystical entity that can be broken by adding categories.

 

[Beanieboy]

Also Christ by participating in the Sacrament of Marriage showed us that he believed in the sanctity of marriage.

But Christ didn't marry (unless you believe the DiVinci Code, which upset people. Why? Because it claims that Jesus married and multiplied. Why would it bother someone to know that God supposedly commands them to multiply, and did so himself? The sex? Isn't that from God as well?)

Wheather we like it or not God created man and woman to live together and multiply.

The practical view of such a moral code and law would be to bring forth children who know who their parents are (!) so they do not end up marrying their brothers(!) and sisters(!) like the beasts do.

If God only created one man and one woman, it is inevitable that that their children would end up marrying their brothers(!) and sisters(!), if they didn't have sex with their parents.

As far as gay marriages I do not believe that ecclesiastically have any place in the Christian Church. As far as the State goes I would not have an objection since I believe in separation of Religion and State, since it is secular. The activists for gay marriages can believe whatever as long as they do not come to my door to advocate their theories! I do not go outside their door advocating against their lifestyle...either.

The media is full of advocacy for their rights. It is my right to resist their propaganda too though.

What prapaganda are we talking about?
Adam gets in an accident. Steve, his partner of 10 years, isn't allowed into the ICU because he isn't "family." His parents decide to put him on life support, against Adam's wishes that he discussed with Steve. Steve has no legal standing.

Is this just?

I knew of a couple where one died of AIDS. The family came in, and demanded half of everything. The man was forced to sell his house, all of his belongings, and his car, and give them half of the cash that belonged to their son.

Financially, this is awful. But imagine your wife or husband dying, and your in-laws doing this to you. Is it moral? Ethical? Loving your neighbor as yourself? Or is negative, hurtful and selfish?

ER showed a situation (that has happened) where a lesbian couple had a child. The birth mother died of cancer, and the birth mother's parents took custody, and there was no legal protection for the other mother.

In other words, the grandparents broke up what was left of the family. I can't imagine the devastation someone would feel in that situation, or the coldness of heart someone must have to take away another's only child.

I pray for them that they might see the light of Christ shinning upon their heats that some day they would see their true calling in Christ. I believe that God will judge us too about witnessing to them in love and respect. Trying not to judge them, but at the same time holding firm in our teachings as Christians.

Hope I made sense of what I am trying to say here...
Sorry for taking too long of a post.

Thanks,
In Chist,
God bless!

I pray, as well, that one day "they will know they are Christians by their love." What happened to that part of Christianity? Humility? Kindness? Gentleness? Caring for their fellowman?

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate that you try not to judge, hold firm, and witness in love and respect. But it seems what people are supposedly "protecting" is not marriage, but the right to ban gays from marrying.

If one really cared about the family, they would support education. They would help families make ends meet. They would provide universal health care, so that people could afford to care for their children, or their elderly parents.

But instead, the want to simply ban gay marriage (which continues the hospital situation, the problem of property rights, custody, etc.)

And the current political environment is trying to make it a US amendment, the first amendment that would actually prevent citizens rights, rather than protect them.

When the US comes to that, then we all need to pray for the country that has become the antithesis of it's original intention.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_us/unmarried_births


Since marriage has increasingly not been necessary to raise children, what secular reasons are left for marriage? Why do we even bother? And how do our reasons for continuing the institution of marriage justify our current prohibitions on gay marriage?

(I know. It's another gay marriage thread. But that's not all it is.)

Society reaps what it sows.

Out of wedlock pregnancies, no-fault divorce, children without the spouse (i.e. sperm banks), etc.

Society can't kick against right and wrong and not expect consequences. But if you're looking for "reasons" from Secularism, you're already starting out on the wrong track.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Society reaps what it sows.

Out of wedlock pregnancies, no-fault divorce, children without the spouse (i.e. sperm banks), etc.

Society can't kick against right and wrong and not expect consequences. But if you're looking for "reasons" from Secularism, you're already starting out on the wrong track.

So is Christianity a personal relationship with God or a system of reward and consequence for societies?

 

[Philothei]

Dear Beannieboy ,
Thank you for your response. You are right I do believe in equal rights! Otherwise we should not live in a Democratic country.
1. As far as Christ not getting married is just another example of celibacy. He chose to be celibant out of love for fulfilling God's plan. Since he is 100% human and 100% man he was also the only one to live and not to sin! Christ remained "unmarried" (despite Davinci's code, just another gnostic theory among the many!). Celibacy pre-existed Christ's times with the brotherhoood of the Hessines, a celibant community living by the Dead sea, (that is where the found the Dead Sea scrolls). In our Orthodox Christian tradition it was St Pachomios and St. Antony who established the idea of Monasticism and they came up with the differnt types. But the idea of fasting and ascetisism it is given by our Lord in the Gospel for "he fasted for forty days and he went to the desert to pray alone." Some people are called to marriage and other are not. Not all the people have to get married. Some who do not want to live a celibate life in the world join a community such a monastery to spend their lives in purity and prayer.

2.God in his wisdom and out of "economy" divine despensation he allowed the union between Adam and Eve. Another explanation would be that the naration of the Genesis IN MY OWN OPINION is not an excact history of how the world was made! it is story to show how creation came to be. I believe in Theistic evolution. That is God created the world in stages that could have taken instead of seven days many centuries... The creation story is only an example, a simplification if you wish to a more complicated cosmological event!

3. I am very sorry to hear of all these stories you describe... they are truly very sad. No one should suffer because of who they are and what they believe. I know I have experienced a couple of cases like those too. We got to ask ourselves if we exercise our "Chrisian compassion" to every other aspect of our lives too though. I am not going to defend us Christians by saying that we are justified to discriminate against anything. We got to accept our shortcomings.... It is tricky to deal with gay couples at the church level. They are usually not accepted, but my concern is that we should still reach out to them no matter what. You are right... when another "normal" family seeks out help we are giving it why not that family? Christ did not discriminate when he went to Matthew's house. On the contrary he went and he ate and he had fellowship with him. Christ was judged by his disciples but he stopped them by saying that it is the sick that he came to heal. Not the well. I agree that education would broaden people's minds. .. but we do need to broaden people's hearts... and that is what Christ said "open up our heats"
Take care.
God bless us all!

 

[Texas Lynn]

It functions as a social institution for the disposition of private property. A girl or woman, being an inferior creature to the patriarchs of ancient Israel and their neo-platonic/paulinist successors at claiming authority, is the property of her father and the wedding serves as the "hand-off" whereby he presents her to her new owner, her husband.

It has been suggested in some quarters such represents an archaic institution but this is vociferously resisted by the forces of oppression.

 

[rambot]

oh yeah....I forgot that one.
When men get married, they get to possess a woman.

;-)

 

[Neve]

It functions as a social institution for the disposition of private property. A girl or woman, being an inferior creature to the patriarchs of ancient Israel and their neo-platonic/paulinist successors at claiming authority, is the property of her father and the wedding serves as the "hand-off" whereby he presents her to her new owner, her husband.

It has been suggested in some quarters such represents an archaic institution but this is vociferously resisted by the forces of oppression.

Marriage is a social institution. In many African and Melanesian societies, they practiced bridewealth where the groom's family would give gifts or labor to the bride's family/clan in exchange for getting rights to her labor and reproductive abilities. In other societies, the bride's family would give a dowry to the groom's to ease the financial burden they were taking on.

 

[Vylo]

Also Christ by participating in the Sacrament of Marriage showed us that he believed in the sanctity of marriage

Didn't see anywhere that Christ got married.

BTW, marriage wasn't a sacrament for 1,100 years after he died.

 

[Philothei]

Hi all,
Ceremonial weddings took place way before Christ's coming... in Israel and other cultures. Actually they were much alike the Christian weddings. Social norms may be different but still the main elements are there. Today's exchange of the vows was again a "reaction" to forced marriages, and started around I think 1000 AD.

Let's not forget they used to "steal" the women to marry back then too, or parents used to force the couple to marry that is why in the Orthodox Church it is still a tradition for the groom to kiss the hand of the father-in-law at the entrance of the church and then the priest comes and the exchange of the vows takes place before the sacrament at the church Narthex. After that the priest joins their hands and holding the Gospel brings them into the Church for the sacrament. The sacrament of marriage although new as a "separate" sacrament is old in its institution since is was performed within the Eucaristic celebration, and all sacraments were.

I personally find the exchange of vows useless since no "patriarchical" male figure imposes to us women to get married today! In ancient Greece there was also a ceremony that evoked the Gods to bless the marriage, and the same is evident in many cultures such as Buddist, Islamist, etc.

Being "prayed over" or getting a blessing is what makes it inot a "sacrament". In the Christian Church the Holy Spirit is evoked to bless the couple. I believe it to be a theistic expression of most religions when it comes to marriage. Why do we have to read into something like this and see it as unusual it beats me...

As far as the institution of marriage again we have to remember what Christ said to the woman at the well.... He did not judge her but in a way she felt embarassed that she was "living" with a man. And to those who do not believe that Christ did not institute marriage should refer to that part. I do not have it handy right now but it involves the conversation of the woman at the well.
If anyone is interested to find out about the sacrament of marriage could go to the Orthodox Church section on this forum I personally found that it is very informative.

Since education is our key to unlocking missunderstanding and discrimination I believe we have an obligation to each other to learn and exchange ideas about all our cultures and traditions. We cannot discard them as "modernistic" "conservative" or "liberal" and "label" them as such and reject them. We should all try to facilitate "bridges" so we can defeat fanaticism, hate and ignorance.

God bless!
In peace

submitted humbly by
Photini