What Prevents The LDS From Being Saved

[SilenceInMotion]

Not being funny, but doesn't this describe like half the members here?

I'm a good judge of character: I don't describe a person's soul as black without merit.
He's probably one of those ultra-conservative Bible thumpers who makes ample use of the word 'heathen'.

I have little patience for one those kind when they strive to be some sort of affront towards me and my beliefs.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

People are doomed to hell if they do not ask for forgiveness. It's a choice of either coming to Jesus Christ in faith, or rejecting Him entirely for an idol that does not hear nor save. You're flaming me as fanatical only because I believe what your church apparently believes

My church has fully embraced the notion that even an atheist can be saved if their heart is right and they follow the natural law.

If you don't believe me, look it up, ask a Catholic, and record it so you don't forget it since obviously the three times I said it didn't make it from the ear to the brain.

I am done with you, welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye

 

[motherprayer]

I'm a good judge of character: I don't describe a person's soul as black without merit.
He's probably one of those ultra-conservative Bible thumpers who makes ample use of the word 'heathen'.

I have little patience for one those kind when they strive to be some sort of affront towards me and my beliefs.

I agree, it just struck me when I read it, that half the threads on GT involve such characters lol

I know. No worries. We will all get our due reward when we go before the King

 

[Phantasman]

My church has fully embraced the notion that even an atheist can be saved if their heart is right and they follow the natural law.

If you don't believe me, look it up, ask a Catholic, and record it so you don't forget it since obviously the three times I said it didn't make it from the ear to the brain.

I am done with you, welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye

I cannot understand why some people do not see the good in so many things that represent God, and instead tear down or attempt to destroy those things that were built by many through an attempt to further the Gospel, even if it is by a means not agreeable to everyone. Even though I am not Catholic, my respect for what the church has gone through throughout history to bring about a change on this planet that protected the scriptures we are able to read, to go into countries and help build monastery's to help spread the word of Christ and to console so many people throughout the ages as the only church, was a big undertaking.

Whether I would be considered a heretic or not, I never considered the Catholic church an enemy, and as a matter of fact, believe it deserves it's due respect for many accomplishments in it's long history. We each have a choice. I would pray for my Catholic friends (or any church) as I would hope that they would pray for me. In the end, our enemy is the same.

 

[Enkil]

I am done with you, welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye

Much ado about nothing, really. You came, you saw, you expressed contempt for Protestants, and you still disagree with the scripture and the Catholic Church on Mormonism.

 

[motherprayer]

I cannot understand why some people do not see the good in so many things that represent God, and instead tear down or attempt to destroy those things that were built by many through an attempt to further the Gospel, even if it is by a means not agreeable to everyone. Even though I am not Catholic, my respect for what the church has gone through throughout history to bring about a change on this planet that protected the scriptures we are able to read, to go into countries and help build monastery's to help spread the word of Christ and to console so many people throughout the ages as the only church, was a big undertaking.

Whether I would be considered a heretic or not, I never considered the Catholic church an enemy, and as a matter of fact, believe it deserves it's due respect for many accomplishments in it's long history. We each have a choice. I would pray for my Catholic friends (or any church) as I would hope that they would pray for me. In the end, our enemy is the same.

Amen! I think the enemy makes a mess of things when it comes to the Gospel. I mean, wouldn't it be JUST LIKE satan to drive Christians away from each other via theological perspectives?

Seriously, I love theology. Really, I can't get enough of His Word and learning more and more about just WHO God is. But I love my Creator MORE than my thoughts about Him, because my thoughts, not being His thoughts, may just be wrong. If they are, He will eventually show me, and I can't be too wrapped up in my pride to see it.

But I look at all the differing opinions and interpretations that Christians have, and I wonder, maybe God isn't worried so much about our semantics as He is about where our hearts are. If we spend more time arguing with other believers than we do listening for His voice, then aren't we defeating the purpose of even believing in Him?

Haha I talk too much

 

[Enkil]

Amen! I think the enemy makes a mess of things when it comes to the Gospel. I mean, wouldn't it be JUST LIKE satan to drive Christians away from each other via theological perspectives?

Seriously, I love theology. Really, I can't get enough of His Word and learning more and more about just WHO God is. But I love my Creator MORE than my thoughts about Him, because my thoughts, not being His thoughts, may just be wrong. If they are, He will eventually show me, and I can't be too wrapped up in my pride to see it.

But I look at all the differing opinions and interpretations that Christians have, and I wonder, maybe God isn't worried so much about our semantics as He is about where our hearts are. If we spend more time arguing with other believers than we do listening for His voice, then aren't we defeating the purpose of even believing in Him?

Haha I talk too much

So at what point are you going to realize you're talking to a fellow who believes the God of the Old Testament was the ignorant, evil Demiurge, that the prophecies of the Messiah are false and were his invention, and that Jesus did not die for our sins, but to give spiritual "wisdom" which is neither wisdom or knowledge of anything worth knowing about?

Exactly how many interpretations are there in the plain words of Jesus Christ, which I have provided on multiple occasions, can you find? Either you are saved by Christ, or you aren't. Will you really live in a world where words don't mean anything, where everyone's idol is the one true God, and where all persons hope above hope that they, personally, are "good" and "holy" and justified of themselves before the god of their imagination? But it is through Christ only that we are justified, and not through religions that deny that He justifies at all, who also, coincidentally, deny even His divinity.

Instead of wishing Godspeed to people who are utterly against every understanding of the scripture, read the scripture and believe what it says instead.

 

[Phantasman]

Amen! I think the enemy makes a mess of things when it comes to the Gospel. I mean, wouldn't it be JUST LIKE satan to drive Christians away from each other via theological perspectives?

Seriously, I love theology. Really, I can't get enough of His Word and learning more and more about just WHO God is. But I love my Creator MORE than my thoughts about Him, because my thoughts, not being His thoughts, may just be wrong. If they are, He will eventually show me, and I can't be too wrapped up in my pride to see it.

But I look at all the differing opinions and interpretations that Christians have, and I wonder, maybe God isn't worried so much about our semantics as He is about where our hearts are. If we spend more time arguing with other believers than we do listening for His voice, then aren't we defeating the purpose of even believing in Him?

Haha I talk too much

No honey, you don't talk too much. How else can someone learn, unless they ask questions, and listen. If all you do is dictate and give opinions, you cannot hear the spirits voice, right? There are times to disagree, times to agree. Times to listen, times to orate. Times to complement and build, and times to depart. We are not perfect, and I accept that of myself before I connect with another. If a debate becomes arguing, I quit. I'll let someone win an argument. Paul should have added Love never argues to Corinthians 13.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Oh, I'm logically consistent. I'm upset because there is a deranged blowhard posing as a Christian on a forum site harassing anyyone who doesn't agree with him.

That would be me.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm a good judge of character: I don't describe a person's soul as black without merit.
He's probably one of those ultra-conservative Bible thumpers who makes ample use of the word 'heathen'.

I have little patience for one those kind when they strive to be some sort of affront towards me and my beliefs.

Very interesting coming from a man who is proud of the fact that he and his church condemn nobody (except Bible-thumpers, it seems).

 

[motherprayer]

So at what point are you going to realize you're talking to a fellow who believes the God of the Old Testament was the ignorant, evil Demiurge, that the prophecies of the Messiah are false and were his invention, and that Jesus did not die for our sins, but to give spiritual "wisdom" which is neither wisdom or knowledge of anything worth knowing about?

Exactly how many interpretations are there in the plain words of Jesus Christ, which I have provided on multiple occasions, can you find? Either you are saved by Christ, or you aren't. Will you really live in a world where words don't mean anything, where everyone's idol is the one true God, and where all persons hope above hope that they, personally, are "good" and "holy" and justified of themselves before the god of their imagination? But it is through Christ only that we are justified, and not through religions that deny that He justifies at all, who also, coincidentally, deny even His divinity.

Instead of wishing Godspeed to people who are utterly against every understanding of the scripture, read the scripture and believe what it says instead.

Scripture says if we speak with tongues of men and angels but don't have love, we are only a percussion instrument

 

[strangertoo]

A few of our critics have indicated that the LDS will not be saved because of the beliefs we hold. This is a challenge for anyone who supports that view to provide actual scriptures that shows our beliefs prevent us from being saved.

God is Love and 'returns' for the last one of the 100% after saving the 99%... the mistake of Satan's mass religion of sinners in countless variations [thus by simple logic mostly must be false, not ONE Truth of God] is to imagine that salvation must be all at once...

whereas the scripturs STATES clearly that FEW find the way of Love of Jesus Christ in this life -Matt 7:14- and the MANY are destroyed [Matt 7:13]

so again we know mass religion is false, the many are destroyed not saved now...

BUT countless MANY are saved even by judgement day -Rev 7:9-10- who were destroyed in this earth [in its destriction in the wrath of God after Jesus takes the few saints -Jude 1:14, Rev 7:3-8- saved FIRST

so we KNOW from scripture that few are saved early, God requires but a few to build the kingdom come of Love of Jesus Christ in the new earth then, for after the day of the Lord the great tribulation leads to destruction of this earth and heavens

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

the MANY are NOT saved early then , only the FEW are required to build and run the kingdom come to save the many LATER ...

so only the few are saved by grace which is why the new covenant is so restrictive , it has no need not to be... Jer 31:31-34

countless many then are saved by WORKS after ALL are freed from hell [Rev 20:13] ACCORDING TO Jesus' ... so why do so many follow sinner priests instead of this revealtion of Jesus ? ... the answer is that most are hooked on sin, so want a religion that tells them they are saved without having to obey Jesus and Love all folks... it is BIG money selling easy Christ, easy salvation, has been so throughout history... no different today ... but note that teh test come when Jesus returns and takes NONE STILL SINNING, just as he said long ago :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 

[Enkil]

Scripture says if we speak with tongues of men and angels but don't have love, we are only a percussion instrument

Is it loving to march into a pit with as many people as we can drag along with us? If that is your love, I want nothing to do with it.

 

[Phantasman]

You know Enkil, I had to copy this from Motherprayer's respond list because I have you on my ignore list:


So at what point are you going to realize you're talking to a fellow who believes the God of the Old Testament was the ignorant, evil Demiurge, that the prophecies of the Messiah are false and were his invention, and that Jesus did not die for our sins, but to give spiritual "wisdom" which is neither wisdom or knowledge of anything worth knowing about?

The truth is, the idea of the demiurge could be true, as far as I'm concerned. I follow Jesus because he said to preach the Gospel to the world. Not the OT. Not Revelations. The Gospel. I study all places where Jesus was said to have spoken. If the Gospel of Thomas has Jesus speaking, I read it and pray on it. I do the bidding of Jesus Christ. Jesus not only died for our sins, but for the sins you commit on this very board. He came in the flesh and is the son of God. He is my savior, and I believe everything he said and what the Holy Spirit teaches me. If anyone is NOT doing the bidding of Christ, it is you. You have got more people ignoring you that I have ever seen. Would they do that to someone who speaks Gods truth? No. They do it to an overbearing zealot that spends his time constantly harassing members of this forum with his own views and expecting everyone to adhere to them or face the consequences of becoming harassed even further. If you attack me with lies again, I will report you to the moderators. You're nothing but trouble.

 

[Enkil]

. If you attack me with lies again, I will report you to the moderators. You're nothing but trouble. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

And my sin, evidently, is requiring that salvation is only through Jesus Christ, the truth Christ said Himself over and over again. And as for your gnosticism and vocabulary:

"Gnostics do not look to salvation from sin (original or other), but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence. Ignorance -- whereby is meant ignorance of spiritual realities -- is dispelled only by Gnosis, and the decisive revelation of Gnosis is brought by the Messengers of Light, especially by Christ, the Logos of the True God. It is not by His suffering and death but by His life of teaching and His establishing of mysteries that Christ has performed His work of salvation."

The Gnostic World View: A Brief Summary of Gnosticism

Report me all you like, but the fact of the matter is Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, even the Gnostics, redefine everything to the point that it loses its value. It is not the Christianity of the Bible. If it is not so, show me from the scripture, and don't just hate on me for not being a universalist.

 

[Defensor Christi]

So now you're back to the universalist argument, just a sentence away from being an uber-Catholic.

I'll give you a twofer.

Here is the Catechism

""Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336"

I would like to wade in here as things seem to be getting out of control...couple of things.

1: I am an "uber-Catholic" (just for clarification)

2: you are misrepresenting SIM's statement, I find that comical. He stated that the Catholic Church does not "doom" anyone to Hell..very true statement, She does not/will not declare anyone as damned, that is for God alone.

You quoted (out of context I might add) the Catechism's teachings on the Church and her necessity for Salvation, this does not in anyway contradict what SIM is saying....the Church is indeed very necessary for salvation, without her we would all be lost...

Now, unlike most protestant church's, the Catholic Church does not teach that if you do not believe EXACTLY like her or if you are not in full communion with her, you are going to hell...that (I believe) is SIM's point.

While the Catholic Church does not recognize LDS baptism as valid (and it is baptism that unites us, although inperfectly, with our Protestant brothers and sisters) it does not mean that LDS members are automatically damned to hell...for, if they fail to unite themselves with the church (through no fault of their own) (note the portion of your statement I bolded) then they will be judged based upon what they believe to be true...you cannot FORCE anyone to believe as you do...

I believe that is what SIM is trying to state...

 

[Enkil]

I would like to wade in here as things seem to be getting out of control...couple of things.

1: I am an "uber-Catholic" (just for clarification)

I've met Uber-Catholics. They aren't usually Universalists.

2: you are misrepresenting SIM's statement, I find that comical. He stated that the Catholic Church does not "doom" anyone to Hell..very true statement, She does not/will not declare anyone as damned, that is for God alone.

Not dooming anyone to hell, but very absolutely declaring that there is salvation outside of Christianity, necessarily denying the need for Evangelizing, is very different. He even declared that Mormons are "not necessarily non-trinitarians," while at the same time damning Protestants, apparently. There is no confusion of the Catholic Church's position on the LDS.

But the scripture is in fact even clearer on this, even if individual Catholics, like Popes for instance, give contradictory views.

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

Now, unlike most protestant church's, the Catholic Church does not teach that if you do not believe EXACTLY like her or if you are not in full communion with her, you are going to hell...that (I believe) is SIM's point.

Protestant Churches don't require total correct doctrine, just on the essentials. Here, I'll quote a Protestant Church leader on the topic:

Rom 14:1-6 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. (2) For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (3) Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

But can anyone deny Jesus Christ, that He is in fact God, who did die for our sins and rose again, so that any who believe on Him may be saved? Can anyone be saved worshiping a "different Jesus," or believing in a Gospel that contradicts what was handed down to us by the Apostles? These are foundational issues, even if not everyone is agreed on predestination, Bible prophecy, or celebrating Holy days.

Gal_1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1Jn_5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

There's no room here for another Jesus in any of these quotes. Considering that every Mormon, Jehovah's Witness and Gnostic has had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, and still denied the Trinity and other essentials of Christianity, they cannot be said to deny Christ "through no fault of their own" even by your own lax definitions. It's certainly their fault if they deny the plain reading of the scripture.

This is why guys like Michael Voris, or conservative Bishops, are still bringing in Catholic Converts, whereas the Catholic Church at large is in constant defense mode to get along and, therefore, is becoming less and less relevant. While I disagree vehemently with them on many issues and consider them opponents, they attract converts because they're standing for something. There is simply nothing compelling in a religion that doesn't stand by truth claims. In the old days, the Catholics would burn to death heretics and schismatics. Now they stand with them, provided they are united against quotes like these:

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Defensor Christi]

I've met Uber-Catholics. They aren't usually Universalists.

What is your definition of universalist?

Not dooming anyone to hell, but very absolutely declaring that there is salvation outside of Christianity, necessarily denying the need for Evangelizing, is very different. He even declared that Mormons are "not necessarily non-trinitarians," while at the same time damning Protestants, apparently. There is no confusion of the Catholic Church's position on the LDS.

I agree, the Church clearly teaches that Salvation comes only from Christ Jesus...how one obtains this necessary salvation is the question...

But the scripture is in fact even clearer on this, even if individual Catholics, like Popes for instance, give contradictory views.

Contradictory to whom?

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

My copy reads a little differently...

It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV | Catholicism.org

Again the "HOW" they are added to the flock is the question...

Protestant Churches don't require total correct doctrine, just on the essentials. Here, I'll quote a Protestant Church leader on the topic:

The problem is there is no universal Protestant Church...you cannot say that Protestant Church's dont require this or that...that simply isnt true, there are too many church's to paint any type of broad statement...

But can anyone deny Jesus Christ, that He is in fact God, who did die for our sins and rose again, so that any who believe on Him may be saved? Can anyone be saved worshiping a "different Jesus," or believing in a Gospel that contradicts what was handed down to us by the Apostles? These are foundational issues, even if not everyone is agreed on predestination, Bible prophecy, or celebrating Holy days.

There's no room here for another Jesus in any of these quotes. Considering that every Mormon, Jehovah's Witness and Gnostic has had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, and still denied the Trinity and other essentials of Christianity, they cannot be said to deny Christ "through no fault of their own" even by your own lax definitions. It's certainly their fault if they deny the plain reading of the scripture.

Again...only God can judge their hearts...to the LDS or JW they are following what they believe to be truth...if they know the Trinitarian Jesus to be truth and choose to follow something else, that is another matter.

This is why guys like Michael Voris, or conservative Bishops, are still bringing in Catholic Converts, whereas the Catholic Church at large is in constant defense mode to get along and, therefore, is becoming less and less relevant. While I disagree vehemently with them on many issues and consider them opponents, they attract converts because they're standing for something. There is simply nothing compelling in a religion that doesn't stand by truth claims. In the old days, the Catholics would burn to death heretics and schismatics. Now they stand with them, provided they are united against quotes like these:

This is just laughable...the Catholic Church is not in defense mode...I teach RCIA and see hundreds of adults convert every year...YOUR opinion is just that...your's...

 

[Defensor Christi]

I've met Uber-Catholics. They aren't usually Universalists.



Not dooming anyone to hell, but very absolutely declaring that there is salvation outside of Christianity, necessarily denying the need for Evangelizing, is very different. He even declared that Mormons are "not necessarily non-trinitarians," while at the same time damning Protestants, apparently. There is no confusion of the Catholic Church's position on the LDS.

But the scripture is in fact even clearer on this, even if individual Catholics, like Popes for instance, give contradictory views.

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)



Protestant Churches don't require total correct doctrine, just on the essentials. Here, I'll quote a Protestant Church leader on the topic:

Rom 14:1-6 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. (2) For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (3) Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

But can anyone deny Jesus Christ, that He is in fact God, who did die for our sins and rose again, so that any who believe on Him may be saved? Can anyone be saved worshiping a "different Jesus," or believing in a Gospel that contradicts what was handed down to us by the Apostles? These are foundational issues, even if not everyone is agreed on predestination, Bible prophecy, or celebrating Holy days.

Gal_1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1Jn_5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

There's no room here for another Jesus in any of these quotes. Considering that every Mormon, Jehovah's Witness and Gnostic has had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, and still denied the Trinity and other essentials of Christianity, they cannot be said to deny Christ "through no fault of their own" even by your own lax definitions. It's certainly their fault if they deny the plain reading of the scripture.

This is why guys like Michael Voris, or conservative Bishops, are still bringing in Catholic Converts, whereas the Catholic Church at large is in constant defense mode to get along and, therefore, is becoming less and less relevant. While I disagree vehemently with them on many issues and consider them opponents, they attract converts because they're standing for something. There is simply nothing compelling in a religion that doesn't stand by truth claims. In the old days, the Catholics would burn to death heretics and schismatics. Now they stand with them, provided they are united against quotes like these:

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What is your definition of universalist?

I agree, the Church clearly teaches that Salvation comes only from Christ Jesus...how one obtains this necessary salvation is the question...



Contradictory to whom?



My copy reads a little differently...

It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV | Catholicism.org

Again the "HOW" they are added to the flock is the question...





The problem is there is no universal Protestant Church...you cannot say that Protestant Church's dont require this or that...that simply isnt true, there are too many church's to paint any type of broad statement...




Again...only God can judge their hearts...to the LDS or JW they are following what they believe to be truth...if they know the Trinitarian Jesus to be truth and choose to follow something else, that is another matter.



This is just laughable...the Catholic Church is not in defense mode...I teach RCIA and see hundreds of adults convert every year...YOUR opinion is just that...your's...

Now to be very clear, I am not suggesting that LDS/JW's and the like should not be evangalized, on the contrary the very much need to know the truth of the Gospel...I would caution however, in proclaiming anyone damned...for that is reserved for God alone.

 

[2ducklow]

I've known catholics that my spirit bore witness with that they were the sons of god, the same with people of many other doctrines. I have never had that experience with a mormon, on the other hand, I've not had much experience with mormons at all.