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In non canonical Secret John, Jesus says he has no name since names are given to those that are created, which he wasn't. God is simply God, no other God exists, IMO. I like that belief and fly with it.
An interesting response. So after nodding and winking at Mormonism, which your church does not do, you straight out bash Protestantism. Interesting set of priorities.
But as for who is to blame for the LDS, I blame Joseph Smith and biblical ignorance.
That isn't the topic. You mentioned rituals. If rituals are not necessary for salvation then they need not be discussed here.
An interesting response. So after nodding and winking at Mormonism, which your church does not do, you straight out bash Protestantism. Interesting set of priorities.
But as for who is to blame for the LDS, I blame Joseph Smith and biblical ignorance.
I never supported Mormonism,
If you believe something is necessary for salvation and it is not then you are trying to be justified by your own, not by Christ, after all Paul saying to the Galatians makes this abundantly clear, Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Say that all you want but it is clear that you do not.
You were never saved if you have always held that the Mormon god is the God of the Bible, this is why in Col 1:16 Paul states that Jesus is the creator of all things, he is arguing against the Gnostic belief that Jesus was not creator, he is arguing against the belief that Jesus is not the one in whom the fullness of deity was pleased to dwell, if it were not an issue for their salvation Paul would not have included it, if having an unbiblical view of god here is salvific then why do you think that your prophet completely redefining Christianity for his own lusts and greed means that you are safe from the fire?
I've already posted at least one you didn't address it, probably because it calls your prophet a false prophet as well.
If you believe something is necessary for salvation and it is not then you are trying to be justified by your own, not by Christ, after all Paul saying to the Galatians makes this abundantly clear, Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
You straight out claimed they weren't non-trinitarian, and even described their theology as interesting, while not condemning the LDS rejection of salvation, whether by the Bible or according to Catholicsm. If that wasn't supporting Mormonism, I'm not sure what is.
But if you want to debate Catholicsm, or I guess Protestants, start up a thread for that topic and I'll meet you there.
Circumcision? What's that got to do with salvation? You sure know how to derail a thread.
Not condemning isn't the same thing as supporting. Just saying.
If it wasn't an issue why was Paul addressing it?How do you know what Paul would and would not include for whatever reason? As far as I know you have not personally discussed the topic with him. Why not just stick to what is actually contained in the Bible?
You have hearkened to the words of Joseph Smith, abandoning the God of Christianity, you have failed the test that God has set, what does Christ say is the greatest commandment that all who wish to attain salvation must live by? Hear You men of Israel Yahweh is God, Yahweh alone, you shall love Yahweh with all your heart, all your soul. By following after Joseph Smith and his gods you have shown that you do not love Yahweh.Deu 13: 1-3
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
(No mention of salvation in these verses.)
That you deny what these verses say is why you are denied salvationRomans 3: 23-26
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(Nothing here that excludes LDS from salvation. In fact, the whole "freely given by his grace" would seem to state the exact opposite.)
Romans 4: 25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
(No indication that the LDS will be denied salvation.)
Eph 4: 6
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(No exclusion of salvation mentioned in this verse either.)
Psalm 139: 7-10
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
(Seeing that God is everywhere, that would make it rather hard to avoid Him. Still, no mention of salvation being withheld from anyone.)
Jer 23: 24
24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.
(Once again, no mention of salvation.)
Actually, I saw what he was getting at. Basically, if you accept the rituals that go with a set of beliefs you have given up your hold on the beliefs of Christ. At least, I think that is what he meant.
No, but saying that Mormons will be saved according to Biblical terms, is, even though Mormonism denies and does not believe in the Christian definition of salvation in the first place. You guys like that opinion, but the scripture is denigrated or ignored, as is basic logic, while Mormon doctrines are misrepresented and ignored. We might as well be debating whether or not a Muslim can be saved by Jesus Christ, despite denying Him, and you guys would spend the rest of the thread agreeing with the concept. Try this in general theology, and we'll see how far that goes.
Actually, I saw what he was getting at. Basically, if you accept the rituals that go with a set of beliefs you have given up your hold on the beliefs of Christ. At least, I think that is what he meant.
Actually, I saw what he was getting at. Basically, if you accept the rituals that go with a set of beliefs you have given up your hold on the beliefs of Christ. At least, I think that is what he meant.
You straight out claimed they weren't non-trinitarian, and even described their theology as interesting, while not condemning the LDS rejection of salvation, whether by the Bible or according to Catholicsm. If that wasn't supporting Mormonism, I'm not sure what is.
But if you want to debate Catholicsm, or I guess Protestants, start up a thread for that topic and I'll meet you there.
The belief of the Trinity is inverse in Mormon theology. Rather then God coming down as Jesus, Jesus rose up as God.
They are not 'tri-theists' or polytheists. What you are doing is producing the same straw man a modalist might prescribe to trinitarianism.
I was simply honest and put you both in the same boat rather then trying to rally people to bash LDS specifically.
I took it that Paul was telling them that circumcision and following the old law was not enough. It was before Christ. The Jews believed you had to be circumcised and to follow the law of Moses. Paul was explaining that circumcision meant nothing, and neither did the whole law of Moses. For without Jesus they would not receive grace. Those things no longer were advantageous.
You denied Catholic and biblical doctrine and expressly claimed that they would be saved, as in the very first post of this thread. At no time did you say anything about becoming Catholic, and you have not given any Catholic position in this thread.
That is true. Catholic priests say something of the same. I'm guessing you have never heard of the theology of 'invincible ignorance' and, despite what some fanatical Christian will say, it is impossible to force oneself to believe something.Here is a piece of your first post: "The Bible tells something that nobody on Earth can override, even my church, and it's that a good man has nothing to fear by God. Follow the natural law, be generous, and love, and you are secured. If that is not the case, then there is no god and we have nothing to fear anyway."
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