What Prevents The LDS From Being Saved

[Keachian]

One might suppose in Mormon cosmology and this is merely speculation on my part, but due to the need for witnessing to continue after death one might propose that there is a level above god, that one might attain in which one becomes a universe or god of one.

 

[Ran77]

Mark 12:28-34 and its parallels in Matt 22:34-40 and Luke 10:25-28, if we look at what they all are quoting we find that it is Deuteronomy 6:4ff Hear, you men of Israel, Yahweh is God, Yahweh alone. A statement of monotheism. in discussing the food offered to idols in I Corinthians 8 he does not validate the existence of other Gods rather he quotes Deuteronomy 6:4 again, this time in a modified trinitarian format; there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. This is not a statement that matter or intelligences is eternal but rather that God is eternal that it is he who made ALL things, all things stem from him and all things exist because of him. I'm reminded of Col 1 where it states that Jesus Christ is the creator of all things, all things were created by him, for him and in him all things hold together. The fundamental aspect of Christian monotheism is that of a creator God, not one of infinities of created gods as the Mormons would have us believe, even though we are only to worship the one.

The LDS worship Heavenly Father. How does that act / belief prevent salvation? I don't see any mention in those verses of a withholding of salvation.

The ego of the Prophet of Mormonism can truly be seen in some of the strange beliefs that they hold to, the exaltation of man to Godhood in order that he might be worshipped by his children, the idea of sex after glorification, the need for polygamy in order to be glorified and the list goes on and on.

1. The ego of the LDS Prophet is your subjective view on the matter.

2. The LDS do not believe in exaltation of man so that he might be worshipped by his children. (It might help to stick to what the LDS actually believe rather than making it up as you go.)

3. The LDS do not believe that polygamy is needed to be glorified. (Once again, it would be beneficial to stick to real LDS doctrines.)


Ignoring the fact that we have in this second batch a subjective prejudice and two items that the LDS don't believe, can you provide any scriptures where it states that they would prevent salvation?

 

[Ran77]

One might suppose in Mormon cosmology and this is merely speculation on my part, but due to the need for witnessing to continue after death one might propose that there is a level above god, that one might attain in which one becomes a universe or god of one.

I apologize for not catching on to what you are stating, but could you rephrase this so that I better understand how this stands in the way of LDS salvation. And please, it would be great if you could throw in a couple of verses to show where those comments stem from.

Thanks.

 

[Keachian]

The LDS worship Heavenly Father. How does that act / belief prevent salvation? I don't see any mention in those verses of a withholding of salvation.

The problem lies in who we understand God to be, Heavenly Father is not the god of the Bible, the God of the Bible is creator, Heavenly Father is a man who has become god, or has the LDS repudiated Smith, Young, Snow et al who say that Heavenly Father through the observance of Mormonism became a god?

1. The ego of the LDS Prophet is your subjective view on the matter.

When something is made up as they go along your ego and lust for power inevitably leak into something, as is evidenced by Joseph Smith proclaiming the revelation of polygamy at about the same time when he took his second wife, in fact Hyrum is recorded as facing down the wrath of Emma because Joseph was to scared to present the revelation to her himself.

2. The LDS do not believe in exaltation of man so that he might be worshipped by his children. (It might help to stick to what the LDS actually believe rather than making it up as you go.)

So we aren't the children of Heavenly Father, and can't become gods ourselves in order to have our own worlds and have copious amounts of heavenly sex with our sealed wives to populate said world? Sorry but if you reject that then you aren't a mormon, as Snow said, as man is, God once was, as God is man might become.

3. The LDS do not believe that polygamy is needed to be glorified. (Once again, it would be beneficial to stick to real LDS doctrines.)

So you have repudiated Young who said; "Without the doctrine [polygamy] which this revelation makes known to us, no one could raise himself high enough to become a god."

Ignoring the fact that we have in this second batch a subjective prejudice and two items that the LDS don't believe, can you provide any scriptures where it states that they would prevent salvation?

Show me the statements repudiating the early 'prophets'/presidents statements and saying that they are in error.

 

[Keachian]

I apologize for not catching on to what you are stating, but could you rephrase this so that I better understand how this stands in the way of LDS salvation.

it's not, it is a musing that I've had for a while about Mormon Cosmology.

 

[Keachian]

I'd Also throw out there that the place at which the atonement happened is different between Christians and Mormons, for the Mormon Christ's weeping and penance and sweating of blood in the Garden of Gethsemane is where atonement comes from, whereas for the Christian; We know that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation (that is a sacrifice to appease his holiness) by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. This Jesus Christ who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. (Romans 3:23-26,4:25)

The Mediator between us and God is also different, for the Christian it is Christ who mediates, he is interceding for us at the right hand of God (Rom 8:34) For the Mormon it is Joseph Smith, as Young said: no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. (JOD 7:288-9)

 

[JoJo50]

A few of our critics have indicated that the LDS will not be saved because of the beliefs we hold. This is a challenge for anyone who supports that view to provide actual scriptures that shows our beliefs prevent us from being saved.

I’m sure your group ISN’T the only one who MANY claim won’t be saved. Sadly ,many of those who say this, refuse to realize, that comment can apply to them also. My Christian sister says she is!!! ,Saved, Because of Jesus blood. Yes! Jesus was sent to die in order that we MAY!!! BE SAVED. Depending if we’re doing right until the end, (Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved). The question is are we TRULY, TRYING to follow Jesus? Of course MANY will say YES!, even if they’re really NOT! It’s NOT hard to know if we are or NOT! Jesus led us on a road which to follow, are we trying to get on THAT road? ,( Matt. 7:13,14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it).

Some who believes, or like my sister KNOW!... she’s saved, and have a first class ticket to Heaven. Are sadly being fooled by satan ,( 2 cor.4;4), And more seriously fooling themselves. Many do the things the world does, which makes them NO friend to Jehovah God, (Exo. 6:3 ,kjb, which everyone seem to love), 1John 2:15,16 and James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. These same Christians, straddles the fence. They play roll dogs with those who don’t even claim to believe in or want to follow Jesus. Which his Father doesn’t like ,( John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him).

And MOST Christians REFUSE to even GET TO KNOW Jesus Father, (not believe he HAS a Father), as they BELIEVE they know Jesus. Which also show they WON’T BE SAVED ,( John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). Many believe and teach, being gay is ok, even though Jehovah God’s words show is isn’t. as well as the many having sex out of marriage, or even in marriage to others , (Rom. 1:26.27 ,Levi. 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them).

1Cor. 7:1,2 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. And Exo. 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery). There are many other ways to know if we’re NOT truly on the road to being saved. True, we won’t die, or see the end as perfect beings, because we’re not! But if we’re trying to do the will of Jehovah God, as Jesus SAID, we should do ,( Matt. 7:21), we may be partakers of Jesus precious gift. So before any “Christians” go checking others, make sure you put yourself in check. ,(Matt. 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye). NONE OF US really KNOWS if we're saved, until the end! peace

 

[SilenceInMotion]

The problem lies in who we understand God to be, Heavenly Father is not the god of the Bible, the God of the Bible is creator, Heavenly Father is a man who has become god, or has the LDS repudiated Smith, Young, Snow et al who say that Heavenly Father through the observance of Mormonism became a god?

From what I understand, they are not necessarily non-trinitarian, they just have a more inverse notion of God. Their mechanics in the theology are different. It's actually pretty interesting.

But you have Oneness Pentecostals who are hardcore modalists, and Seventh Day Adventists have a prophet as well who claims to have expounded revelation from God.

Why point out LDS and not these other beliefs of Christianity? Sure, LDS is much different from mainstream Christianity, but Christian churches aren't exactly sharing the same beliefs anyway. Look at mine and look at yours, for example
I find that the different theologies of justification for salvation to be exponentially more dire then differing theologies of the Godhead. God doesn't frown upon people over such doctrines- they have nothing to do with one's soul.

 

[motherprayer]

A few of our critics have indicated that the LDS will not be saved because of the beliefs we hold. This is a challenge for anyone who supports that view to provide actual scriptures that shows our beliefs prevent us from being saved.

Well, my friend, first of all hi!

I did some heavy musing on this during Romney's campaign. Which was in part why I participated in that highly enlightening and edifying conversation with you several months ago.

Bless you for educating me on your beliefs. I would say that, although your beliefs are a bit "unorthodox" in terms of "normal" Christianity, what you shared with me showed me that the LDS encourages a strong relationship with God! There may be some things that you and I both are wrong about when we see the here-after, but you know? I'm beginning to believe that certain matters aren't necessary for Salvation.

Some say one has to have an "accurate" understanding of exactly who Jesus was in order to be saved. But that interests me. He never gave a complex theological statement to the Samaritan woman, or the theif on the cross.

Ah, I'm rambling. I just can't understand why some feel that one's theology must be perfect in order to get to Heaven.

 

[Tigger45]

Hi motherprayer; not to be rude my sister and may His blessings be upon you but the Jesus the Samariton woman and the theif on the cross were talking to was the real Jesus Christ not the spiritual brother of Lucifer. Narrow is the gate and few that find it. People that attend the LDS church can be saved but the church doctrine itself leads them to a different Jesus. Forgive me sister no disrespect is intended.

 

[motherprayer]

Hi motherprayer; not to be rude my sister and may His blessings be upon you but the Jesus the Samariton woman and the theif on the cross were talking to was the real Jesus Christ not the spiritual brother of Lucifer. Narrow is the gate and few that find it. People that attend the LDS church can be saved but the church doctrine itself leads them to a different Jesus. Forgive me sister no disrespect is intended.

I understand. No offense taken

I wasn't comparing those interactions to LDS beliefs, rather comparing them to the beliefs of many followers of Christ who have no idea of the difference between "Jesus is God" and "Jesus is man representing God." In fact, 2 years ago I wouldn't have been able to answer that question, but I was still saved lol

 

[apache1]

Mormons are going to heaven, sick of the bash on them. Lots of my friends are Mormon, they are great people.

Well, I'd rather be around Mormons than fundamentalist Muslims any day of the week.

 

[Zechariah]

Interesting thread. So far, though, I've missed anything that would explain why LDS can't, aren't, won't be saved. I did, especially, appreciate reading the quote from Matthew 16. One of my favorites in all of scripture. Especially when Peter answers the Lord to say, "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (KJV) That's certainly what we LDS would answer.

The only thing I've gleaned from this thread, as far as LDS not being saved, though, is that it is the opinion of some that LDS can't, aren't, won't be saved because their ideas of God are different than they think ours are, so, because of that, they think we won't be saved. Hmmm. I thought it was the Lord who would make such decisions. Not sinful men. Go figure.

 

[Phantasman]

Jesus taught the way to salvation and it was he who paid the price and determines the rules and laws set forth to follow. If any man adds to or takes away from Jesus wisdom, and someone follows the man, they subject themselves to the same fate that the man will endure. Paul said Jesus appeared to him and many accept it. Joseph Smith says it and people doubt it. I am sure Paul went through the same ripping apart that Joseph Smith is going through. He was imprisoned much of his life and eventually killed. He was hated for what he taught and believed. Most Christians today are no better than most Jews of Pauls time period. Through time, men have trained them to believe an orthodox belief set in stone, that if something showed up to prove that they may be mistaken, they wouldn't accept it.

 

[Zechariah]

Jesus taught the way to salvation and it was he who paid the price and determines the rules and laws set forth to follow. If any man adds to or takes away from Jesus wisdom, and someone follows the man, they subject themselves to the same fate that the man will endure. Paul said Jesus appeared to him and many accept it. Joseph Smith says it and people doubt it. I am sure Paul went through the same ripping apart that Joseph Smith is going through. He was imprisoned much of his life and eventually killed. He was hated for what he taught and believed. Most Christians today are no better than most Jews of Pauls time period. Through time, men have trained them to believe an orthodox belief set in stone, that if something showed up to prove that they may be mistaken, they wouldn't accept it.

Indeed. I cannot help but wonder who, of those who live in our day, would have accepted Paul if we'd lived in his. What's more, how many, I wonder, would have accepted Jesus, himself? Who would have been among his humble followers and who would have been among those to cry, "Crucify him. Crucify him."? We can only wonder.

 

[Ran77]

Indeed. I cannot help but wonder who, of those who live in our day, would have accepted Paul if we'd lived in his. What's more, how many, I wonder, would have accepted Jesus, himself? Who would have been among his humble followers and who would have been among those to cry, "Crucify him. Crucify him."? We can only wonder.

Interesting point. How many indeed.

 

[Ran77]

it's not, it is a musing that I've had for a while about Mormon Cosmology.

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Ran77]

Well, my friend, first of all hi!

I did some heavy musing on this during Romney's campaign. Which was in part why I participated in that highly enlightening and edifying conversation with you several months ago.

Bless you for educating me on your beliefs. I would say that, although your beliefs are a bit "unorthodox" in terms of "normal" Christianity, what you shared with me showed me that the LDS encourages a strong relationship with God! There may be some things that you and I both are wrong about when we see the here-after, but you know? I'm beginning to believe that certain matters aren't necessary for Salvation.

Some say one has to have an "accurate" understanding of exactly who Jesus was in order to be saved. But that interests me. He never gave a complex theological statement to the Samaritan woman, or the theif on the cross.

Ah, I'm rambling. I just can't understand why some feel that one's theology must be perfect in order to get to Heaven.

Hey to you. Good to have more dialogue with you.

I agree that the LDS are unorthodox when compared with what is considered mainstream Christianity. I'm okay with that. In fact, I am proud of the fact that we are a peculiar people.

I agree with the concept you are presenting as well. Jesus talked about faith, about accepting Him. He rewarded small, or great, acts of faith with miracles. Let's face it, God is beyond our comprehension at this point. We can understand bits of the big picture, but not all of that. Since God is supremely intelligent He certainly can't be expecting us to fully understand that which is beyond our ability. But faith and the willingness to obey - that's a different matter. We can do that. The thief on the cross can do that. Children, whome Christ talks about often, can do that.

I can look at my own life for an idea of what God might be thinking. My children all have different levels of intelligence. A couple are exceptionally bright and grasp on to certain ideas more quickly than the others. That is nice and I do appreciate that skill set from them. But it is the love that they show me and their obedience / loyalty that resonates most strongly with me. They can be the youngest or the one who struggles most with the thinking process and when they show forth that love and loyalty my heart swells.


Anyway, I'm rambling too. You go ahead and ramble at me any time you want.

 

[Ran77]

From what I understand, they are not necessarily non-trinitarian, they just have a more inverse notion of God. Their mechanics in the theology are different. It's actually pretty interesting.

But you have Oneness Pentecostals who are hardcore modalists, and Seventh Day Adventists have a prophet as well who claims to have expounded revelation from God.

Why point out LDS and not these other beliefs of Christianity? Sure, LDS is much different from mainstream Christianity, but Christian churches aren't exactly sharing the same beliefs anyway. Look at mine and look at yours, for example
I find that the different theologies of justification for salvation to be exponentially more dire then differing theologies of the Godhead. God doesn't frown upon people over such doctrines- they have nothing to do with one's soul.

Good post.

 

[Ran77]

The problem lies in who we understand God to be, Heavenly Father is not the god of the Bible, the God of the Bible is creator, Heavenly Father is a man who has become god, or has the LDS repudiated Smith, Young, Snow et al who say that Heavenly Father through the observance of Mormonism became a god?

Is that really the problem. Wouldn't you consider it most important that we accept God as our God? What effect on our salvation does it have if we were to get some part of our understanding of what God is wrong? Let's use the example you provided: If LDS believe that God was once a man and they are wrong, what effect does that have in the short term? in the long term? and in the matter of our salvation?

When something is made up as they go along your ego and lust for power inevitably leak into something, as is evidenced by Joseph Smith proclaiming the revelation of polygamy at about the same time when he took his second wife, in fact Hyrum is recorded as facing down the wrath of Emma because Joseph was to scared to present the revelation to her himself.

My apologies, but I don't see the connection between this and the thread topic.

So we aren't the children of Heavenly Father, and can't become gods ourselves in order to have our own worlds and have copious amounts of heavenly sex with our sealed wives to populate said world? Sorry but if you reject that then you aren't a mormon, as Snow said, as man is, God once was, as God is man might become.

Odd that you would assume that when I pointed out that you were not correctly presenting LDS doctrine that it meant the truth was the exact opposite of every single point that you made. That isn't what I indicated. d

Fortunately, you are not in charge of who is and who isn't a Mormon. It always gives me a kick when non-LDS set themselves up as the experts on LDS doctrines.

So you have repudiated Young who said; "Without the doctrine [polygamy] which this revelation makes known to us, no one could raise himself high enough to become a god."

No, I have repudiated you. Do you not know the difference?

On this matter, you are incorrect. That is not LDS doctrine.

Show me the statements repudiating the early 'prophets'/presidents statements and saying that they are in error.

That isn't the topic of this thread.