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What people believe does not change the truth...

k4c

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Some people say, "I don't believe worshiping on Sunday is from Babylon". They may say that it doesn't matter which day you call holy. They may say I don't believe Satan is involved with changing God's holy day.

The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.


God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tells us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or not believe. I can tell you there is a powerful spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html
 

VictorC

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God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy.
This is one of your oft-repeated assertions without a scrap of Biblical support.
He tells us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.
Assembly (convocation) for the sabbath is among the Feasts of the Lord in Leviticus 23, which the seventh-day Adventist church has discarded according to a theory that they were merely ceremonial in nature.
 
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Sophia7

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Since you started a new thread with this comment, here is my response to it again:

Some people say, "I don't believe worshiping on Sunday is from Babylon". They may say that it doesn't matter which day you call holy. They may say I don't believe Satan is involved with changing God's holy day.

The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.

Well, then, it doesn't matter if people go to church on Sunday, does it? Sunday is not the Sabbath. Observance of the Sabbath is a different issue.

k4c said:
God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tell us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

Where does the Bible tell us to remember to keep the seventh day holy? According to the verses that Ricker quoted, God told the Israelites that, not us. And where does the Bible say that the seventh day is to be set aside for sacred assembly? The commandment in Exodus 20 doesn't say that. The seventh-day Sabbath is called a "holy convocation" in Leviticus 23, but so are the other "appointed times." If the Sabbath is binding on Christians, then so are the other OT holy days.

k4c said:
If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or don't believe. I can tell you there is a spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html

Is being persecuted a litmus test for truth? Muslims have been persecuted in many parts of the world, and their weekly holy day is Friday. Does that mean that we should "keep" Friday and accept Muhammad as a prophet? People of other religious traditions suffer and die for their strongly held beliefs, not only Christians and not only Sabbatarians. That doesn't prove anything about the correctness of their beliefs, only about their devotion to them.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Some people say, "I don't believe worshiping on Sunday is from Babylon".
If a person disagrees with this statement, then we must conclude that God only permits men to worship Him during specific days of the week. If this is true, then SDAism violates this principle every time they have a week-long camp meeting.


They may say that it doesn't matter which day you call holy.
Wrong. They say, "Man can worship God during any day of the week." BIG DIFFERENCE.


They may say I don't believe Satan is involved with changing God's holy day.
Wrong. They say "God did not change the day on which the sabbath occurred."

You're jousting at straw men again!

BFA
 
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k4c

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If a person disagrees with this statement, then we must conclude that God only permits men to worship Him during specific days of the week. If this is true, then SDAism violates this principle every time they have a week-long camp meeting.

Wrong. They say, "Man can worship God during any day of the week." BIG DIFFERENCE.

Wrong. They say "God did not change the day on which the sabbath occurred."

You're jousting at straw men again!

BFA

The foundation and value of worship is obedience to the commandments of God over the commandments of men.

If you worship God you will not commit adultery, if you worship God you will not steal, if you worship God you will not murder, if you worship God you will keep His day holy.

We should worship God 7/24/365 in other words, you should obey God 7/24/365 in other words, we should keep His commandments.
 
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Sophia7

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The foundation and value of worship is obedience to the commandments of God over the commandments of men.

If you worship God you will not commit adultery, if you worship God you will not steal, if you worship God you will not murder, if you worship God you will keep His day holy.

We should worship God 7/24/365 in other words, you should obey God 7/24/365 in other words, we should keep His commandments.

Did God ever say, "Thou shalt worship only on Sabbath," or, "Thou shalt not go to church on Sunday"? I don't remember reading anything like that in my Bible, regardless of whether or not Sabbath observance is required of Christians.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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The foundation and value of worship is obedience to the commandments of God over the commandments of men.
This is a very tall claim. Would you go so far as to say that the definition of worship is obedience to the commandments of God? If so, is a person disobedient if he participates in corporate worship during the first day of the week?

If you worship God you will not commit adultery
And yet true worshippers commit adultery. David is a classic example.

if you worship God you will not murder
And yet true worshippers murder. Consider Joshua.

if you worship God you will keep His day holy.
If you worship God, have you made a pledge never to worship Him during the hours of the first day?

BFA
 
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BlackSabb

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Some people say, "I don't believe worshiping on Sunday is from Babylon". They may say that it doesn't matter which day you call holy. They may say I don't believe Satan is involved with changing God's holy day.

The truth of the matter is, it doesn't matter what individual people believe or don't believe. If you do your research you will find that God's word is true. The prophecies of God are sure and steadfast and lead us in the direction of what we should believe.

God tells us to remember to keep the seventh day holy. He tells us how the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God and how the seventh day is set aside for sacred assembly.

If you are not obeying God in this matter it really doesn't matter what else you do or believe or not believe. I can tell you there is a powerful spiritual force in the world that is working to distort the truth of the seventh day. Persecution has come as a result of keeping the seventh day holy. Force has been used to enforce the first day. This is not of God and anyone who follows, agrees or denies this is following after the beast.

Look here and you will get a small glimps of the big picture.

[URL="http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html"]http://looking4jesus.com/End-Time-Persecution.html[/URL]



Let me give a reality check. You talk about the Bible. Well in it, Paul says that those who teach will receive a stricter judgment. And warns "let not many of you become teachers", for this reason.

I would not like to be in your shoes/sandals on judgement day for claiming that the majority of the world's Christians, literally hundreds of millions of believers, are worshipping the beast because they go to church on Sunday.

It is one thing to say that you believe the OT Sabbath still applies. It is a completely different thing to say in conclusion that all Sunday church going Christians are in league with Satan.

You need to repent of such vile beliefs. I remind you again of Paul's words: "Let not many of you become teachers". May God have mercy on you for proclaiming hundreds of millions of Christians as Satanic merely because of Sunday fellowship.
 
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k4c

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Let me give a reality check. You talk about the Bible. Well in it, Paul says that those who teach will receive a stricter judgment. And warns "let not many of you become teachers", for this reason.

I would not like to be in your shoes/sandals on judgement day for claiming that the majority of the world's Christians, literally hundreds of millions of believers, are worshipping the beast because they go to church on Sunday.

It is one thing to say that you believe the OT Sabbath still applies. It is a completely different thing to say in conclusion that all Sunday church going Christians are in league with Satan.

You need to repent of such vile beliefs. I remind you again of Paul's words: "Let not many of you become teachers". May God have mercy on you for proclaiming hundreds of millions of Christians as Satanic merely because of Sunday fellowship.

I can see by your Avatar page that you have spiritual discernment. But I'll share anyway because you never know what God will do.

Sun worship, in the Lord's house, has its root in Babylon.

Ezekiel 8:16 Then he brought me into the inner court of the Temple and there at the door, between the porch and the bronze altar, were about twenty-five men standing with their backs to the Temple of the Lord, facing east, worshiping the sun!


Sunday is the day sun worshipers honor it's called, "The Venerable Day of the Sun". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

The Bible is very clear as to what the Beast is. It's a kingdom that began forming in Babylon and ended with Papal Rome.

The Beast in Revelation 13 decribes Papal Rome.

Papal Rome is the little horn kingdom that changed God's Law and time.

Papal Rome changed God's seventh day Sabbath from the seventh day (Saturday) to the first day (Sunday) as it relates to worship.

Official quote from The Catholic Catechism
Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer - “Saturday is the Sabbath day.”
Question - “Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
Answer – “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." Peter Geiermann,C.S.S.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.


What was established at the Council of Laodicea in 364-AD regarding the seventh day Sabbath of the fourth commandment?

Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364)
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, the Sabbath, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day (Sunday) they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day if however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ.”---Canon 29, Council of Laodicea, 364 C.E.

Papal Rome has no problem admitting this change.

Official Statement of the Catholic Church
“Sunday is our mark of authority, the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923”.

When you honor Sunday, as the Lord's day, you are not honoring God, you are honoring the traditions of man and worshiping the Beast. And what does God say about that?

Mark 7:7-8 In vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...

Official Statement of the Catholic Church
“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

When you honor Sunday instead of Saturday you are worshiping the beast because it's the Beast who made the change, not God.

Listen to what God says, not what I say, about those who worship the Beast.

Revelation 14:9-10 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Notice you can have the mark of the the Beast on your forehead or your hand. The forehead is is the part of the brain where worship takes place and the hand is symbolic for your works. In other words, you may not be wroshiping Papal Rome, you may even speak against the Papacy but you can be obeying the Beast by what you practice as seen in your works. Sunday observance is a practice that did not come from God but is honored by just about every Christain denomination in the world.

For a more detailed study on this go here http://looking4jesus.com/Prophe-cy.html
 
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Aibrean

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We are not all Catholics here first and foremost.

Not everything decided in Leodica is current today, even current to the Catholic church.

Canon 15 said:
No others shall sing in the Church, save only the canonical singers, who go up into the ambo and sing from a book.
 
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BlackSabb

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I can see by your Avatar page that you have spiritual discernment. But I'll share anyway because you never know what God will do.



Fine then. I am of Satan according to you. But what's your excuse for your complete and utter lack of right judgement? To claim that Adventists and a few other Sabbath keeping Christians are right and all the rest of Christendom are wrong and are of Satan and the beast is not only complete lunacy, but extreme slander.

I have no problem with people claiming that the Sabbath still needs to be kept. I keep the Sabbath, just different to you. My Sabbath is the rest in Christ's finished work, as outlined in the NT. So yes, I keep the commandments including the Sabbath.

But to claim that all other Christians are of Satan is despicable and vile. I am truly disgusted with that "doctrine". And it's people like you who give Seventh Day Adventism the bad name that it is often associated with.



 
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k4c

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[/SIZE]


Fine then. I am of Satan according to you. But what's your excuse for your complete and utter lack of right judgement? To claim that Adventists and a few other Sabbath keeping Christians are right and all the rest of Christendom are wrong and are of Satan and the beast is not only complete lunacy, but extreme slander.

I have no problem with people claiming that the Sabbath still needs to be kept. I keep the Sabbath, just different to you. My Sabbath is the rest in Christ's finished work, as outlined in the NT. So yes, I keep the commandments including the Sabbath.

But to claim that all other Christians are of Satan is despicable and vile. I am truly disgusted with that "doctrine". And it's people like you who give Seventh Day Adventism the bad name that it is often associated with.




First of all I didn't say they are of Satan. People who are being deceived may believe they
are worshiping God but in reality they are being deceived. I can't post the verse right now because I'm on my cell phone but if you read the verse in Revelation, regarding Babylon, God says "Come out of her My people" He is calling them, His people. He also says that unless they do come out of her they will take part in her sin and drink of God's wrath. So am I wrong to wrong or evil for warning God's people?

Did you bother going to my website for more details?
 
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Byfaithalone1

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People who are being deceived may believe they are worshiping God but in reality they are being deceived.

What does worshipping God look like? Obeying the old covenant law?

I can't post the verse right now because I'm on my cell phone but if you read the verse in Revelation, regarding Babylon, God says "Come out of her My people" He is calling them, His people. He also says that unless they do come out of her they will take part in her sin and drink of God's wrath. So am I wrong to wrong or evil for warning God's people?

Help us understand this better. Are you claiming that, if a person goes to church on Sunday, that act potentially lead to the person one day hearing "Come out of her my people?" Are you making a connection between church services on Sunday and the command to "Come out of her?" If so, why? What's at stake here, K4C. You keep alluding to some future danger for those who attend church on Sunday. Why don't you come right out and tell us more about the danger that you foresee.

Did you bother going to my website for more details?

Is this a discussion forum or a place to promote your own website?

BFA
 
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VictorC

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The Bible is very clear as to what the Beast is. It's a kingdom that began forming in Babylon and ended with Papal Rome.
Your conclusion is laughable in light of Daniel 2 showing us the sequence of kingdoms depicted ending Rome's tenure on the political scene, and replaced by the feet of iron mixed with clay - depicting the divided European nation-states at the time of the second advent. Daniel 7 shows an entirely different group of kingdoms wherein the forth beast exists alongside the previous beasts when their dominion is taken away at the second advent. In other words, the Roman empire is no more, it has not been replaced by an ecclesiastical entity, and it isn't the fourth beast depicted in Daniel 7 nor Revelation 13.

The Bible is clear that your foundation is outdated, and you like the SDA church haven't studied Bible prophecy in the last 160 years.
 
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StormyOne

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I think it is ironic that the title of this thread is "What people believe does not change the truth...." I think it is ironic because what k4c is submitting as truth is not truth but what he believes... The truth about the law and compliance is NOT what k4c "believes."
 
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Sophia7

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I think it is ironic that the title of this thread is "What people believe does not change the truth...." I think it is ironic because what k4c is submitting as truth is not truth but what he believes... The truth about the law and compliance is NOT what k4c "believes."

That is rather ironic. :D
 
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VictorC

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The truth about the law and compliance is NOT what k4c "believes."
Agreed.
God did not lie to us concerning His conclusion "God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all" proclaimed in Romans 11:32.
 
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