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What or Who Is Satan?

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Benoni

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Like I said earlier the word freewill or choice are religious words and cannot be found in the Bible. The words translated "draw" and "drew" in the Greek New Testament are HELKUO and HELKO. Each of these words has the basic meaning of "compel ... .. draw," "pull," and "tug." In most instances the force which does the drawing or compelling is sufficient to cause the object of the drawing to respond fully. For example, in Jn. 18:10, it is said that "Peter having a sword DREW it..." The impetuous disciple most assuredly did not draw the weapon out of its sheath in a gingerly or wooing fashion. Nor did the sword seek to draw itself out by its own will and good pleasure! Peter didn't merely "invite" the sword to come out, in spite of any resistance the blade may have had as it dragged the leather scabbard, the muscular arm of Peter yanked it forcefully out in obedience to his will.
One of the forms of HELKO is used in the Song of Solomon (in the Septuagint, Greek Old Testament) to speak of the love of the Bridegroom which causes the Bride to cry out to her maidens: "DRAW me after thee!" (S. of S. 1:4). The irresistible power of the heavenly Bridegroom's love for His betrothed creates a corresponding love in her heart. It is the heavenly One who initiates the love, creating faith and devotion in His beloved as He reveals Himself to be desirable and trustworthy. Already she has been drawn unto Him in deeper hunger; already she has longed for the kisses of His mouth, those tender moments of communion and prayer, wherein is revealed His love. Already she has smelled the sweet odors of His oils; already she has beheld Him upon the cross for her, she has beheld HIS LIFE poured out for her. This but increases her desire to be drawn with greater power, with stronger cords of love, with greater call to separation, and even with greater suffering, that she may arise and run AFTER HIM. She is more and more realizing the truth of her helplessness to run unless He draws.
We little realize that mighty unseen power that is drawing, drawing, like an irresistible, supernatural magnet. We speak of our hunger for the Lord, we tell of the longing we feel for Him, we pour out our hunger and longing at His feet as though He did not know they were in our hearts. We comprehend but little that all this is the drawing of God; that if He did not graciously put the hunger in our hearts, we should be cold and barren; we should be satisfied with but little of that into which He is constraining us to enter. Let this sink down into our hearts and ever abide there, that every heavenward impulse in our souls, every upward desire, IS THE DRAWING OF GOD. No sinner could be saved if God did not convict, quicken, deal with, and draw him. So many times we lose sight of this. We could not desire His will nor His best, we could not love and hunger for our dear Lord if God did not graciously put within us a hunger for Him and His will. Dear child of God, if you feel the drawing of God in your soul, cherish it as you would cherish a great treasure. If you feel a deeper hunger, if you are entering into a closer walk with Him, do not look upon it carelessly, nor treat it lightly.
The words HELKO and HELKUO may be found eight times in the Greek New Testament. I have already mentioned the passage in which Peter forcibly drew his sword from its sheath to cut off the ear of Malchus. Other passages contain the idea of force connected with this word, such as in Jn. 21:6, where we find that the load of fish was so huge that the disciples could not haul it aboard the boat. Their seasoned muscles were not able to pull such a great weight out of the water, for John says, "Now they were not able to DRAW it for the multitude of fish." Yet, a moment later, Simon Peter hauls the net through the water and up to the shore. This again is referred to as "drawing" the netload of fish with a force that is not resisted.
When the apostle James wishes to describe the manner in which rich men forcibly drag those who are indebted to them to prison, he uses the word HELKO. In James 2:6 he writes, "Do not rich men oppress you and DRAW you before the judgment seats?" This "drawing," of course, was not with wooing or pleading! It was an act of force that absolutely took no care of the willingness of the person drawn! The poor man might resist ever so much, and he might cry and plead, but he was drawn irresistibly to the place of judgment! It is with precisely this kind of forceful drawing that the Lord Jesus is talking when He says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW all drawn unto me!" And, thank God, they are not just drawn "toward" Him, but UNTO HIM --all the way! Because the Christ was "lifted up" on the cross of Calvary, dying on behalf of every man of Adam's race, the promise is sure, He will inexorably DRAW all men unto Himself! The divine plan calls for the Church, the body of Christ, to be drawn to Him in this age, all the living nations of the world to be drawn to Him in the next age, and the remainder of men, all who have ever lived and died upon this planet in the ages to come.
Another example of the use of the Greek work HELKO which shows that the drawing is by force and in spite of the resistance of the one drawn, is in Acts 16:19. When Paul and Silas were vexed by the demonic slave girl, Paul cast the evil spirit out of her. Her masters saw that all hope of profit was gone, so they grabbed the two servants of Jesus and forcibly dragged them to the judges in the market place. We read: "And when her masters saw that the hope of their gain was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and DREW them into the market place unto the rulers." This was not an act in which the persons drawn delighted to cooperate. No, it was an act of force which "compelled" them to go where they would not have preferred to go! So it is with man who is spiritually dead and happy to follow the devil to hell because he prefers darkness to light. He does not "come to Jesus" of his own "free will." If he has eyes to see and ears to hear the Lord it is because God has quickened his spirit and opened his spiritual sight and unplugged his spiritual ears, as it is written, "The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them! " (Prov. 20:12).
 
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Floatingaxe

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God draws and never forces anyone, as He created us with our own sovereignty of will and He allows us that, and would never override it. He gives us a choice: Choose him and life or choose to not serve Him (thereby serving Satan by default) and die.
 
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Bro.T

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See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 30:16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
(Deuteronomy 30:15-20)

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (Hebrew 13:8)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name
 
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Benoni

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God draws nd never forces anyone, as He created us with our own sovereignty of will and He allows us that, and would never override it. He gives us a choice: Choose him and life or choose to not serve Him (thereby serving Satan by default) and die.

If that is true then where is your scripture? I mean really the word freewill is not even in the Bible unless are using the freewill offering in the NT. Did you choose to be born in this Adamic body? Did you choose your parents? Did you choose what country you were born in? I have been married for 33 years and I only choice my wife after God put us together.

Where does it say we choose salvation?
Where does it say we have a freewill?

No it say totally to the contrary.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag (I like force) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Adamic man does not have the power, the ability to choose; he is dead; dead in trustpasses and sins (that is how God ordained us to be born). Have you ever seen a dead man choose something?

You see when Adam died, he died spiritually, that is why it takes the HS to draw, drag us; or we simply cannot come.

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

11Not one of them understands or even searches for God

11No one is wise. No one wants to know God.


Then we have Romans 9:12

Romans 9: What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?

 
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Benoni

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See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 30:16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
(Deuteronomy 30:15-20)

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (Hebrew 13:8)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name

What does this have to do with salvation?




 
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Benoni

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God draws nd never forces anyone, as He created us with our own sovereignty of will and He allows us that, and would never override it. He gives us a choice: Choose him and life or choose to not serve Him (thereby serving Satan by default) and die.

I also want to add the word draw means force, I already pointed this out a number of times; it means drag. have you ever been dragged by someone, if you were it was them forcing you along, not your choice.
 
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Benoni

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God is not calling all people now; if He was they would have no choice.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
God is only calling his firstfruits.
 
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Floatingaxe

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I also want to add the word draw means force, I already pointed this out a number of times; it means drag. have you ever been dragged by someone, if you were it was them forcing you along, not your choice.

I don't care what the alternative meanings for the word, "to draw" are. They aren't all applicable. We must use a bit of common sense that God Himself gives--not to mention that the Holy Spirit in a true believer teaches the truth about this. If you've gotten it wrong, wouldn't you want to know that? Can you accept some correction? If you want to erroneously believe that God drags people kicking and screaming to love Him, then fine. However, it's the opposite. People are dragged away from God by Satan and their own evil lusts.


God is sovereign, but He is not sovereign over the will He has placed in us. He is a God who abides by His own Word and laws. When He tells us to choose life so that we may live, He is offering up to you a solemn choice. He will honour it.

To believe that God forces us is so contrary to Scripture and to God's very nature.


 
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Floatingaxe

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God is not calling all people now; if He was they would have no choice.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
God is only calling his firstfruits.

Ever read John 3:16?? Understand about the Great Commission??

God is calling all men to Himself. Those who insist on exegeting Scripture alone really need pastors and good teachers to teach them. Belonging to a good Bible-believing church is something we must never avoid. There we receive correction. Without a church to cover and teach us, we will ALWAYS go astray and slip headlong into aberrant thinking. ALWAYS.

1 John 2:26-28
I am writing these things to warn you about those who want to lead you astray. But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ. And now, dear children, remain in fellowship with Christ so that when he returns, you will be full of courage and not shrink back from him in shame.


Regarding:

1 Corinthian 15:22-24
Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.



THIS is talking about the resurrection and has NOTHING to do with any of your points.
 
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Benoni

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I don't care what the alternative meanings for the word, "to draw" are. They aren't all applicable. We must use a bit of common sense that God Himself gives--not to mention that the Holy Spirit in a true believer teaches the truth about this. If you've gotten it wrong, wouldn't you want to know that? Can you accept some correction? If you want to erroneously believe that God drags people kicking and screaming to love Him, then fine. However, it's the opposite. People are dragged away from God by Satan and their own evil lusts.


God is sovereign, but He is not sovereign over the will He has placed in us. He is a God who abides by His own Word and laws. When He tells us to choose life so that we may live, He is offering up to you a solemn choice. He will honour it.

To believe that God forces us is so contrary to Scripture and to God's very nature.

There are a lot of problems with what you are saying; we are speaking about God’s Word here; not your opinion or as you phased it common sense. God is a spirit and we cannot trust human reasoning without scriptural foundations, if that was true then we still would be in the dark ages. You use the word common sense; you have an old wine skin because it cannot handle anything new; that is scriptural not your common sense. And I will add God’s Word is progressive.

Where are you getting the meaning of the word from you religion, your bias, your creed, your mindset? I got it from God’s Word; I quoted examples of scriptures (the corn (God’s word), the wine (revelation of the spirit), oil (the anointing).

Example:

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)

Allegory: Middle English allegorie, from Latin allegoria, from Greek allēgoria, from allēgorein to speak figuratively, from allos other + -ēgorein to speak publicly, from agora 1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression2: a symbolic representation


God’s Word is a hidden Word: God speaks thought His Word in many hidden and ways; parable, mysteries (Gk) Sacred secrets, used 27 times in NT), examples, types, different languages, even deceptions to hide His word from the religious, the , wise, the carnal; and reveal it to babes. A babe is not the same as someone who can handle the milk of the word, anyone can handle milk; but a babe is like my small grandchildren when I speak to them; they trust everything I say, they have ears to hear.

It is not contrary to scripture, I have quoted multiple scriptures to back it up; do I need to repost them again.

You are the one so locked in your bias you cannot be shown something scriptural, contrary to your bias. All you have to do is prove it using God’s Word not your common sense and I would change my mind and agree with you.

Satan is nothing but a puppet in the hands of a sovereign God, Satan has no power to touch anyone unless God ordains it, it is God who is omnipotent: having virtually unlimited authority or influence, omniscience: all knowledge; to all things, omniscient: having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight 2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge omnipotence: an agency or force of unlimited power, omnipresent: present in all places at all times; not Satan. You still believe Lucifer is Satan?

I like that “God is sovereign, but” there is no “BUT”.

God’s Will: You also believe God does not have the will to save all but; but has the will to torture billions upon billions forever and ever with no mercy; now that is totally contrary to God’s nature.

I think it awesome that god chooses us, draws us; God is in complete control of all things; if He wasn't He would be god.
 
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Benoni

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Ever read John 3:16?? Understand about the Great Commission??

I love John 3:16; it is one of my favorite scriptures in the Bible; but it is not the only scripture in the Bible. It is also is not the hub of the wheel for my believe in Jesus blood that was shed for all men. I already commented on John 3:16 earlier in this verse same thread; here is what I said….

John 3:16
I have always hated the way traditional teaching has used this awesome verse in the Bible on one hand to point to salvation which it does; but on the other hand condemn the rest of humanity which it does not

Look at a passage in the New Testament; viz., that precious declaration in John 3:16,

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son," etc. We will take into consideration verses 14-17 inclusive; first I will clear up several points of obscurity and error and then give the rendering as it should be.

In verse 15 the words "not perish but" should be omitted; according to the best authorities they have been interpolated, probably from the following verse; they are left out from the New Version.

Strong's Whosoever 3956 pas (pas);including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all,
any, every, the whole: KJV-- all (manner of, means), alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

AP Adams: The word "whosoever" in the l5th and l6th verses should be rendered "all"; in the original it is the word usually rendered all throughout the New Testament; it occurs hundreds of times, and it is rendered "all" in over nine hundred instances, and whosoever in only about forty; the rendering all then is plainly the usual one.

The word rendered "believeth," in the original is a participle, "believing"; the clause should read, "that all,
believing in him should not," etc. The words, "believing in him," are explanatory, telling us how "all" are to be saved, viz, by believing in him. In the common version it will be noticed that the participle is, without authority, rendered by the verb "believeth," and the words, "whosoever believeth in him" are thereby made to have a conditional force, as though it read, if they believe in him, implying that some will not believe in him, and hence will perish, and be lost eternally.

But this is not a correct rendering of the original, as I have shown above; the clause is not conditional, but is thrown in, as a participial form, as explanatory of the manner of the world's salvation, by believing in him; this view is fully confirmed by the l9th verse; "for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved."

Might be saved: Stong's 4982 sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe");
to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): KJV-- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be
(make) whole. The word “might” was added by the translator

AP Adams Now I will give the whole passage as it ought to be.

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up, that all,
believing in him. might have æonial life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,
that all, believing in him, might not perish, but have æonial life. For God sent not his Son into the world
to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved."

Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of
the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world, contained in the Bible. It is positive and direct, and mighty enough, could they only appreciate it, to utterly silence all those narrow,
shortsighted souls who think that God will only gain a partial victory over the devil, that he will not save
the world, but only a portion of it, a vast number being eternally lost. It is very plain why the translators
of the common version handled this passage as they did. Their creed would not allow them to accept it just as it reads; it required only a slight change to make it conform to their own idea. They insert the unusual rendering "whosoever," change believing to "believeth," and then, punctuating it accordingly, the passage is "tinkered" so as to harmonize with the creed. Thank God for deliverance from man made creeds!

"Let God be true, though every man be false" (Rom. 3:4).

Young’s Literal John 3:14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, 15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. 17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;
 
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Benoni

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God is calling all men to Himself.

God is only calling His firstfruits, the overcomer, the Tabernacle of David; the rest are defiled by women (Baby-lon)

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:

If God does not call you, you cannot come.

Rev. 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a[a] Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having[b] His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[c] from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit,[d] for they are without fault before the throne of God.[e]

 
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Benoni

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God is calling all men to Himself. Those who insist on exegeting Scripture alone really need pastors and good teachers to teach them. Belonging to a good Bible-believing church is something we must never avoid. There we receive correction. Without a church to cover and teach us, we will ALWAYS go astray and slip headlong into aberrant thinking. ALWAYS.

What do you mean by “exegeting” scripture? I thing you misspelled this thought? Tell what is a good BibleBelievingChurch; where in the Bible does it say I should belong to a good Bible believing Church. What Church has all the answers? What I have found is all these good bible believing churches follow creeds, dogmas, and opinions, common sense and reject the Bible.


What is the Church?
Isaiah 4 1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.


What does the word Church mean? It is a Greek Word “ecclesia” which simply means the called out. There is a true Church and a false Church; Baby lon is the false church; while the true Church is not a building, a system, denomination but Christ with in us, the hope of Glory.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

God uses Baby-lon as shown by the verse above; but there is so much more.

I have awesome teachers, the word pastor means Shepard, and the Lord is my Shepard. Jeremiah 3:15 (KJV) 15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
 
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Ghettoflame

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I'm sure that we all different thoughts when picturing the Devil. I hardly ever ponder a visual image (sometimes); I usually have a definition as well as a dark vibe to go with it. I define Satan as an evil, invisible, spiritual force, not omnipotent/present/scient like God, but has abilities, is powerful, and exists. He and his minions use influence against people good and bad alike. He has no true human advocates; he wants us all dead.

Evil spirits use the natural to express themselves, a mockery of God's power.
 
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Floatingaxe

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I also want to add the word draw means force, I already pointed this out a number of times; it means drag. have you ever been dragged by someone, if you were it was them forcing you along, not your choice.




It doesn't mean "force" when it refers to what the Holy Spirit does. He draws you to the decision point, then you make your choice.
 
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