LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
What idea, that Jesus is both man and God at the same time?
Prodromos, did you come up with Christianity on your own?
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What? No Josephology?!?!?
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Prodromos, did you come up with Christianity on your own?
- Nov 28, 2003
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no, the idea that you have been arguing all this time, that Joseph was secretly the king.
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LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
If Jesus was secretly the King of Judah, why wouldn't his father Joseph have been secretly a king as well?
I understand that the kingship of Jesus is a Heavenly one, but does that mean that King David, King Solomon, and all the other kings after were not earthly kings?
All I am saying is that they were all earthly kings including Joseph and that Jesus inherited that kingship, but the kingship of Jesus is the superior one that lasts forever.
Just because Jesus showed a different model of what it means to be a king does not mean that his kingship was not of the line of David and at the same time a Heavenly Kingship.
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Uphill Battle
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Not only have you not answered the question I asked of you, you persist in your belief even though scripture plainly states that no descendant of Jechoniah would sit upon the throne. Matthew traces Joseph's descent through Jechoniah therefore Joseph cannot secretly be king. Now there is something unique about Joseph but I'm not posting any more on this until you concede that your argument as it stands is unscriptural.
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Don't attend every argument you're invited to.
There was no "secret kingship" of Jesus.
He certainly made no secret of it even without explicitly spelling it out in public on a regular basis until He was ready to end His ministry. He knew what the response would be.
(drum roll)... He predestined it!
Sorry, cheap shot, I know.
I mean, He was savvy, not just nerdy intelligent.
He had a perfect sense of timing.
"Secret King" has a Quaballa - like ring to it.
It is all beside the point of his being totaly sovereign as Creator, The King of Glory.
THAT is what the secret was... what He was realy king of, not just of the Jews.
There was no "secret kingship" of Jesus.
He certainly made no secret of it even without explicitly spelling it out in public on a regular basis until He was ready to end His ministry. He knew what the response would be.
(drum roll)... He predestined it!
Sorry, cheap shot, I know.
I mean, He was savvy, not just nerdy intelligent.
He had a perfect sense of timing.
"Secret King" has a Quaballa - like ring to it.
It is all beside the point of his being totaly sovereign as Creator, The King of Glory.
THAT is what the secret was... what He was realy king of, not just of the Jews.
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LivingWordUnity
Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic
Read chapter 13 in "Reasons to Believe" By Dr. Scott Hahn. After reading that, decide for yourself if what he says makes sense.
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Nevermind. What I wanted to say is that Joseph is unique in that he can trace his lineage to David through two lines. He is physically at descendant of David through Solomon (and Jechoniah, thus unable to occupy the throne) but he is legally a descendant of David through Nathan. This is because his physical father Jacob rose up seed for his stepbrother Eli who had married but died before producing an heir. Jacob and Eli shared the same mother who was first married to Matthat and then later to Matthan after becoming widowed. Since Joseph's legal parentage takes precedence over his physical, he is no longer affected by the curse in Jeremiah 36:30
This is written of by Julius Africanus (d. A.D. 240)
This is written of by Julius Africanus (d. A.D. 240)
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Whatever Dr. Scott Hahn's argument is it is moot, because as a physical descendant of Jechoniah, Joseph cannot be secretly king. It is a fatal flaw in whatever Dr. Hahn argues.
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Have I ever argued that it did? I get the feeling that people are reading way too much into what we've been discussing.
Jesus is a descendant of David. As such He is a legitimate heir to the throne. We've been stating this from the beginning.
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Pennelope
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Good heavens. When I think about how Joseph or Mary for that matter, would react to people duking it out over which of them gets more attention -- well, I don't know if they would laugh or weep.
Each of them was content with a hidden life centered on Jesus. Seems to me a waste of time to be caught up with, "My humble saint has been unfairly overlooked by the people who like your humble saint!"
I mean, really!
By the way, I love each of them deeply. And I'm so glad their different.
Each of them was content with a hidden life centered on Jesus. Seems to me a waste of time to be caught up with, "My humble saint has been unfairly overlooked by the people who like your humble saint!"
I mean, really!
By the way, I love each of them deeply. And I'm so glad their different.
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except the duking is about secret kingship & how many contenders for their throne there was. Not about comparative attention, which I'm sure you'll agree, Mary gets more veneration, just countin' the paraphanalia like statues in the yards, "Hail Mary" recitations, titles & extraordinary attributes, etc... you get my drift.
And actualy, not to be contentious, but it isn't realy about fairness either. It's about the inordinate amount Mary gets. My idea in starting this thread was to make that obvious by comparison, not to claim unfairness.
Thank you for your kind attention.
Let us now return to the regular portion of our program.
And actualy, not to be contentious, but it isn't realy about fairness either. It's about the inordinate amount Mary gets. My idea in starting this thread was to make that obvious by comparison, not to claim unfairness.
Thank you for your kind attention.
Let us now return to the regular portion of our program.
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