what needs to be done?

[Cash80]

Hello everybody,

I am concerned about a very important issue:

The thing is I see how political gay rights movement systematically operates in our culture, where Christians are ending up being persecuted: like in Missouri State University, a student almost got expelled because she opposed gay adoption, there are many more cases like that. Now, there is a movement called Soulforce, whose attempt is to influence public opinion that the biblical position on homosexuality that many Christians hold, is an act of hateful violence. I wasn't convinced of that until I went to their website, and humbly shared with them the information about how our Christian brothers and sisters are being discriminated for their beliefs. I wanted to raise awareness, hoping to reach their hearts. Some of them seemed respectful at first, but then started accusing me of being 'antigay.' They even called an organization Alliance Defense Fund, that helped a lot of people defend their 1st Amendment right, as something similar to Nazism. I told them that I thought it was not right to call anybody who stands for justice, as ADF does, as antigay or so forth and I left. Was I being too harsh? But I believe I had to say that.

I'm worried folks, these guys go around the country and talk how oppressed they are and blame conservative Christians for that, attack Christian schools, and compare family advocates like James Dobson and James Kennedy to Hitler's Nazis. Just check what Soulforce has done in front of Focus on the Family headquarters a few months ago:
http://www.soulforce.org/article/1257

In this video, they talked about "hate speech" and changing laws. What could be that about?

God knows, what could happen if their rhetoric could influence the government. The question I have is: how do we reach people like that with Christ's love and tell them the truth at the same time? At the same time, does anybody think that activism like that should be prevented?

I need to know,

Sammy

 

[davedjy]

I'm worried folks, these guys go around the country and talk how oppressed they are and blame conservative Christians for that, attack Christian schools, and compare family advocates like James Dobson and James Kennedy to Hitler's Nazis

Not to far off from Nazis...most of these "family advocates" such as the AFA and Focus on the Family use false statistics and unethical means to push their anti-gay spin on people.

 

[Cash80]

Not to far off from Nazis...most of these "family advocates" such as the AFA and Focus on the Family use false statistics and unethical means to push their anti-gay spin on people.

You know, I find it rather ambiguous what is considered "anti-gay" these days. For me, antigay meant directed something threatening against people with homosexual orientation, like physical harm. Are there any evidence that AFA and Focus on the Family were advocating such things?

Here is AFA's position on homosexuals:
http://www.afa.net/about.asp#homo

Is that considered antigay? If yes, why?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

You know, I find it rather ambiguous what is considered "anti-gay" these days. For me, antigay meant directed something threatening against people with homosexual orientation, like physical harm. Are there any evidence that AFA and Focus on the Family were advocating such things?

Here is AFA's position on homosexuals:
http://www.afa.net/about.asp#homo

Is that considered antigay? If yes, why?

Here are a few quotes from Dr Dobson's web site, in regards to how a parent should deal with the grief of a Gay child/
Is this not a little over the top ?

There are some key issues that parents have to face to successfully “move beyond” the paralyzing grief-stricken state of having a gay child.

The loss must be faced.1 Having a gay child entails the loss of future dreams, loss of control, loss of security, loss of relationship.

Here an analogy of a horrible accident is used :

A profound, thought-provoking book on grief is A Grace Disguised: How the Soul Grows Through Loss by Gerald Sittser. In his book, Dr. Sittser describes the anguish of losing three of the most important people in his life one night in a terrible car accident involving a drunk driver going 85 mph who veered into their lane on the highway. In one blinding crash, Gerald lost his mother, his wife and his young daughter.
In the following days and weeks, Sittser went through the shock, the horrifying emotional pain, and the crushing grief of his loss. He felt engulfed in a great darkness for months. Eventually, however, the darkness began to lift. The “sunrise” began to be felt and his emotional state returned somewhat to normal.

Here in this article he blames the parents: Though, no one in the medical community agrees with him. He quotes the same group all the time. The much discredited Narth.

Everyone asks, "So what is the cause of homosexuality?" Yet no one wants to point a finger at anyone or provide a simplistic reason for a condition that is incredibly complex. Like many other adult problems, homosexuality begins at home. Mom and Dad are key players. Research from the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality states, "One hundred percent of the research participants stated their father/father figure was distant, uninvolved in their upbringing, frightening and unapproachable. Eighty-seven percent spoke of a mother who was close, controlling and overbearing."

But I found this one buried on the site: It was a Q&A "Is Homosexuality inherited ? "
Here they quote , what most medical professionals feel, then they contradict themselves in the net paragraph

No one can say definitively what causes a person to be homosexual. We have to acknowledge that there could be inheritable tendencies (which does not make homosexuality "involuntary" in some individuals). There is no proof of such influence to this point, but we can't rule it out in specific cases. It could also result from the presence or absence of hormonal "spiking" that typically occurs before birth.

Nest paragraph : Here they contradict the first paragraph.

It is more likely to be related to one or more of the following: (1) confusion of role models seen in parents, including, but not limited to, a dominant mother and a weak or absent father; (2) serious family dysfunction that wounds and damages the child; (3) early sexual abuse; (4) the influence of an older homosexual during a critical period of adolescence; (5) conscious choice and cultivation; and/or (6) homosexual experimentation, such as mutual masturbatory activity, by boys in early adolescence. How do these and other forces interplay in individual circumstances? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.

 

[Cash80]

Well, I see that Dobson and all, say that family problems is one of the issues of causing homosexuality, but definitely not the only issue. And they said it so.

However, this thread is about so-called "gay rights activists" waging a psychological war against Christian organizations and people, by trying to silence them, unless they change their position on homosexuality.
What does anybody think it might lead to?

I heard from them that their motive is to been seen as human beings. But I don't buy that. Is it really justifying to silence those who have a different belief in order to been seen as a human being?

 

[MrPirate]

Hello everybody,

I am concerned about a very important issue:

The thing is I see how political gay rights movement systematically operates in our culture, where Christians are ending up being persecuted:

Your kidding right?
Conservative Christians are actively engaged in a campaign to restrict the rights of a minority and promote hate and discrimination and you are trying to pretend that somehow they are the victims?

Now, there is a movement called Soulforce, whose attempt is to influence public opinion that the biblical position on homosexuality that many Christians hold, is an act of hateful violence. I wasn't convinced of that until I went to their website, and humbly shared with them the information about how our Christian brothers and sisters are being discriminated for their beliefs. I wanted to raise awareness, hoping to reach their hearts. Some of them seemed respectful at first, but then started accusing me of being 'antigay.' They even called an organization Alliance Defense Fund, that helped a lot of people defend their 1st Amendment right, as something similar to Nazism. I told them that I thought it was not right to call anybody who stands for justice, as ADF does, as antigay or so forth and I left. Was I being too harsh? But I believe I had to say that.

Well you just called an organization devoted to equality for everyone anti-Christain.
What was your purpose in going to Soulforce in the first place?

I'm worried folks, these guys go around the country and talk how oppressed they are and blame conservative Christians for that,

Is someone else promoting discrimination against our gay and lesbian brothers and sister that we aren’t aware of?

attack Christian schools,

documentaion please

and compare family advocates like James Dobson and James Kennedy to Hitler's Nazis. Just check what Soulforce has done in front of Focus on the Family headquarters a few months ago:

http://www.soulforce.org/article/1257

“On April 28, 2007, Soulforce conducted a vigil during which participants silently prayed for Dr. Dobson's wholeness and then read aloud numerous inflammatory and dehumanizing statements that Dr. Dobson and his associates have published over the years regarding lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people and their families.”

Good for them…. It takes courage to confront people who lie and promotes hatred like Dobson does.

God knows, what could happen if their rhetoric could influence the government.

Gee equality might happen for a repressed minority.

The horrors… If gay and lesbian people are given civil rights, then everyone will want them!

The question I have is: how do we reach people like that with Christ's love and tell them the truth at the same time?

Well Soulforce had a good idea…calling attention to the truth and confronting the lies Focus on the Family routinely publishes to further their agenda.

At the same time, does anybody think that activism like that should be prevented?


I need to know,


Sammy

Confronting false witness with truth is “activism”?

 

[MrPirate]

However, this thread is about so-called "gay rights activists" waging a psychological war against Christian organizations and people, by trying to silence them,

You just asked about making “activism” of an anti-hate group illegal.

So who is trying to silence who?

 

[tulc]

At the same time, does anybody think that activism like that should be prevented?

...so in order to support the free speech of the people you do agree with, you think we should supress the right in those whose speech you don't agree with?
tulc(uhmmm...no that doesn't sound like a good idea at all)

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Opposing homosexual adoption is sinners throwing stones at other sinners. But really, people should expect this, no servant is greater than his master.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Well, I see that Dobson and all, say that family problems is one of the issues of causing homosexuality, but definitely not the only issue. And they said it so.

However, this thread is about so-called "gay rights activists" waging a psychological war against Christian organizations and people, by trying to silence them, unless they change their position on homosexuality.
What does anybody think it might lead to?

I heard from them that their motive is to been seen as human beings. But I don't buy that. Is it really justifying to silence those who have a different belief in order to been seen as a human being?

No I think you missed my point. You spoke in hyperbole about gays waging war against groups such as focus on the family, when in fact, It is groups such as Focus on the family, who will not let adult Americans live in peace. They sit in their multi million dollar headquarters and print rhetoric , designed to demonize Gays, as if they are sick and twisted degenerates. They issue statements designed to inflame the public against gays. They use the same 1 organization "narth" in a pathetic attempt to add creedance to their attacks on Law abiding American citizens. Here is a novel idea; Leave gays alone, and chances are that they will leave you alone. Gays have a right to pursue life, liberty and happiness, just as you do.

 

[davedjy]

You know, I find it rather ambiguous what is considered "anti-gay" these days. For me, antigay meant directed something threatening against people with homosexual orientation, like physical harm. Are there any evidence that AFA and Focus on the Family were advocating such things?

Here is AFA's position on homosexuals:
http://www.afa.net/about.asp#homo

Is that considered antigay? If yes, why?

Anti-gay, as in against gays, in whatever way you want to put it, I guess I clump it all together, since it all boils down to oppression that is negative. Some of it, of course is worse than other things.

Dobson is horrible, anyone that can say that us gays are trying to "destroy the earth", and are not monogamous (all from article):


“Homosexuals are not monogamous. They want to destroy the institution of marriage. It will destroy marriage. It will destroy the Earth, Dobson said.” (The Oklahoman, 10-23-03)

It seems as though Dr. Dobson finds it convenient to tell “lies” while bashing the gay community. Dobson’s statement that 80 percent of children in Norway are born out of wedlock is false and a total fabrication. According to Statistics Norway (government entity), which can be found at http://www.ssb.no/www-open/english/ the rate in 2003 was 50.5%, which isn’t anywhere near 80%. I suppose this Christian lie is acceptable when bashing gays, right Dr. Jim?

Dr. Dobson’s fabrication in disabusing Norwegians to promote his gay bashing by claiming that gay marriages will destroy the earth, our moral fiber (values) and lead to destruction of marriage is not only absurd it is patently false. Put simply, Dr. Jim found Norwegians to be an acceptable target by claiming their liberal views on same sex marriage led to runaway abortions, out of wedlock marriages and destruction of marriages (divorces) and that America would face the same damnable fate if it failed to abide by his Christian values in bashing gays.



http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/Dobson.html

 

[Cash80]

No I think you missed my point. You spoke in hyperbole about gays waging war against groups such as focus on the family, when in fact, It is groups such as Focus on the family, who will not let adult Americans live in peace. They sit in their multi million dollar headquarters and print rhetoric , designed to demonize Gays, as if they are sick and twisted degenerates. They issue statements designed to inflame the public against gays. They use the same 1 organization "narth" in a pathetic attempt to add creedance to their attacks on Law abiding American citizens. Here is a novel idea; Leave gays alone, and chances are that they will leave you alone. Gays have a right to pursue life, liberty and happiness, just as you do.

I can understand why liberal gays would have issues with Dobson, he is into politics and all. But, for the love of God, I don't understand why Soulforce go after Christian colleges, where many students over there are finding sanctuary, something they wouldn't have in our secular colleges, which make up 90% of our education. Homosexual students have all the freedom in colleges to practice their lifestyle, while Christian students are being punished if they openly say it's wrong. I suggest you read the book called "Homosexual agenda" by Alan Sears and Craig Austen, where it talks at greater detail about it. Why can't Soulforce riders leave Christian students alone? Surely, they are not seeking political influence like Dobson does.

Speaking of Dobson, check this link.
http://www.citizenlink.org/FOSI/homosexuality/maf/A000001525.cfm
The charges that Soulforce made against him, turned out to be scurrilous and ridiculous. They were promoting a strawman fallacy.

Your kidding right?
Conservative Christians are actively engaged in a campaign to restrict the rights of a minority and promote hate and discrimination and you are trying to pretend that somehow they are the victims?

For the record's sake: right to marry anybody you want is not a civil right, but homosexuals have the same rights such as life, liberty, and property like everybody else. As far as who is the victim, please check what happens in Sweden and Canada, with their "hate speech" laws:
www.akegreen.org
http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...n/pch0080.html

I don't want the same to happen in America, but this is what those "gay equality" activists have accomplished there. It seems like Mel White and Soulforce want the same thing, by using their common cliche "Never again will we allow this debate." I believe that homosexual behavior is immoral, who is he to allow or disallow me what I want to say?

Well you just called an organization devoted to equality for everyone anti-Christain.

What was your purpose in going to Soulforce in the first place?

I wanted to raise awareness how our freedom of speech and association has become jeopardized because of "gay rights activism." You know, some people at SF forums were sympathetic, they were conservative, but not the majority.

Is someone else promoting discrimination against our gay and lesbian brothers and sister that we aren’t aware of?

documentaion please

In America, we have a freedom of speech and of religion, which means if I say that practicing homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven, I am exercising my rights. Also, from a Christian perspective, saying this means being light and salt. That's a command Christians must follow, which was given to us by Jesus (Matthew 5:12-14). I don't care if the worldly culture woud call it discrimination, because God does not want us to be friends of the world. He will condemn such people:

4You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely?[a] 6But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:
"God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble."[b]
7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

As far as with Equality Riders accusing Christian colleges of "spiritual violence." Check this video:
http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770312038

Once again, the charges they made against Central Bible Colleges turned out to be false.

Good for them…. It takes courage to confront people who lie and promotes hatred like Dobson does.

What lies are you talking about? Is it the biblical verses condemning the practice of homosexuality or the position that children need a mother and a father? Well, the first one is the truth, the second one is true most of the times, and there are many researches to support it.

I'm just curious, where do you stand on an issue where biological parents give their children away to same-sex couples, like in Spike Lee's "She hate me," in order to promote "equality?" Is that morally right?

Gee equality might happen for a repressed minority.

The horrors… If gay and lesbian people are given civil rights, then everyone will want them!




Well Soulforce had a good idea…calling attention to the truth and confronting the lies Focus on the Family routinely publishes to further their agenda.


Confronting false witness with truth is “activism”?

Like I said before; from a Christian perspective, what Soulforce and other left wingers are doing is incorrect. The current tendency of political gay movement is not just about encouraging tolerance for homosexual behavior, but promoting intolerance against those who disagree with it.

...so in order to support the free speech of the people you do agree with, you think we should supress the right in those whose speech you don't agree with?
tulc(uhmmm...no that doesn't sound like a good idea at all)

At this point, I don't really know what to do, so I posed an open question, hoping to hear different responses.

 

[ALiberalTeen]

Nothing needs to be done, Soulforce is awesome.

 

[tulc]

The current tendency of political gay movement is not just about encouraging tolerance for homosexual behavior, but promoting intolerance against those who disagree with it.

...or that's how the intolerent view tolerance? Again is the only voice that should be heard the voice you agree with?
tulc(who isn't talking about you by the way, because you don't strike me as intolorant, just passionate about your beliefs)

 

[MrPirate]

Opposing homosexual adoption is sinners throwing stones at other sinners. But really, people should expect this, no servant is greater than his master.

You are equating bigotry with parenthood?

 

[MrPirate]

I can understand why liberal gays would have issues with Dobson, he is into politics and all.

Its not liberal gays who have issues with Dobson. It is honest people everywhere who have issues with Dobson.

But, for the love of God, I don't understand why Soulforce go after Christian colleges, where many students over there are finding sanctuary, something they wouldn't have in our secular colleges, which make up 90% of our education. Homosexual students have all the freedom in colleges to practice their lifestyle, while Christian students are being punished if they openly say it's wrong.

SO it is wrong in your eyes for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to confront the lies expressed by many Conservative Christian groups and universities and present the truth…

it is wrong in your eyes for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to confront hatred advocated by Conservative Christian groups and universities

it is wrong in your eyes for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to work against bigotry and hatred and discrimination


but it is perfectly acceptable to you when Christian universities and groups like Focus on the Family lie about homosexuals and homosexuality. It is fine with you when God’s name is used to promote bigotry.

I suggest you read the book called "Homosexual agenda" by Alan Sears and Craig Austen, where it talks at greater detail about it.

I have. Page after page of false witness and the promotion of bigotry.

do you think it is acceptable to lie about homosexuals?

Speaking of Dobson, check this link.
http://www.citizenlink.org/FOSI/homosexuality/maf/A000001525.cfm
The charges that Soulforce made against him, turned out to be scurrilous and ridiculous. They were promoting a strawman fallacy.

You have had no problem using Soulforce links …but suddenly….now you use a pro-hate groups link …why? Why not link directly to Soulfoce?

For the record's sake: right to marry anybody you want is not a civil right,

For the record…the supreme court says it is a right of the individual. ref: Loving vs. Virginia.
“Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.” Decision written by Chief Justice Warren June 12, 1967

Loving vs. Virginia was the case that ruled interracial marriage illegal BTW.

but homosexuals have the same rights such as life, liberty, and property like everybody else.

But not the right to have their marriages legally recognized. As noted….not equal. And who is it that is promoting and justifying this sort of hate based discrimination? Conservative Christians.

As far as who is the victim, please check what happens in Sweden and Canada, with their "hate speech" laws:
www.akegreen.org
http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...n/pch0080.html

Yawn. This is a common lie of hate groups.
In order to believe their lies you have to ignore the facts and the actual laws of Canada. But then lying to promote discrimination is morally acceptable…right?

The law in question is Criminal Code of Canada(Sections 318 & 319) this law covers hate speech and protects against hate propagandadirecting hatred against persons the basis of their color, race, religion, ethnic origin and/or sexual orientation. it criminalizes hate propaganda" is defined by the Criminal Code of Canada(Section 318 & 319) as the expression of hatred against or the advocacy of genocide of an identifiable group: specifically people distinguished by their "color, race, religion, ethnic origin and/or sexual orientation.”

note the exclusions:

If, "in good faith, he expressed or attempted to establish by argument an opinion on a religious subject." This would give clergypersons immunity from conviction for a hate-based sermon, for example.

If the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, and if, on reasonable grounds, the person believed them to be true. This would give additional protection for the clergy.

If he/she described material that might generate feelings of hatred for an identifiable group "for the purpose of removal" of that hatred.




http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/42972.html

Hate Propaganda
Advocating genocide
318. (1) Every one who advocates or promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
Definition of "genocide"
(2) In this section, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part any identifiable group, namely,
(a) killing members of the group; or
(b) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.
Consent
(3) No proceeding for an offence under this section shall be instituted without the consent of the Attorney General.
Definition of "identifiable group"
(4) In this section, "identifiable group" means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 318; 2004, c. 14, s. 1.
Public incitement of hatred
319. (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Wilful promotion of hatred
(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Defences
(3) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (2)
(a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;
(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;
(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or
(d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada.
Forfeiture
(4) Where a person is convicted of an offence under section 318 or subsection (1) or (2) of this section, anything by means of or in relation to which the offence was committed, on such conviction, may, in addition to any other punishment imposed, be ordered by the presiding provincial court judge or judge to be forfeited to Her Majesty in right of the province in which that person is convicted, for disposal as the Attorney General may direct.
Exemption from seizure of communication facilities
(5) Subsections 199(6) and (7) apply with such modifications as the circumstances require to section 318 or subsection (1) or (2) of this section.
Consent
(6) No proceeding for an offence under subsection (2) shall be instituted without the consent of the Attorney General.
Definitions
(7) In this section,
"communicating" «communiquer»
"communicating" includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means;
"identifiable group" «groupe identifiable»
"identifiable group" has the same meaning as in section 318;
"public place" «endroit public»
"public place" includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied;
"statements" «déclarations»
"statements" includes words spoken or written or recorded electronically or electro-magnetically or otherwise, and gestures, signs or other visible representations.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 319; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 203; 2004, c. 14, s. 2.



318. (1) Every one who advocates or promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
(2) In this section, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part any identifiable group, namely,
(a) killing members of the group; or
(b) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.
(3) No proceeding for an offence under this section shall be instituted without the consent of the Attorney General.
(4) In this section, "identifiable group" means any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 318; 2004, c. 14, s. 1.

I don't want the same to happen in America, but this is what those "gay equality" activists have accomplished there.

You think people should be free to advocate genocide, violence, murder and other crimes against minorities?

It seems like Mel White and Soulforce want the same thing, by using their common cliche "Never again will we all this debate."

Shame on that Mel person…confronting people who preach hatred

I believe that homosexual behavior is immoral,

And I think bigotry is immoral…

who is he to allow or disallow me what I want to say?

You have every right to be a bigot. No one is stopping you. You are free to hate blacks and Jews and women and homosexuals and the handicapped.

However your right to hate ends when it infringes on the freedom and equality of those you have chosen to hate.

I wanted to raise awareness how our freedom of speech and association has become jeopardized because of "gay rights activism." You know, some people at SF forums were sympathic, they were conservative, but not the majority.

Interesting …though no one is threatening such a thing

Yet here you are advocating that freedom of speech be limited to only those people who you personally agree with



CONTINUED

 

[united4Peace]

what about homosexual Christians being persecuted for their beliefs?
Not being able to be with someone that they truly love?
Not being able to raise a family?(children are better off with parents who love them)...

what makes a family anyways? what about those of us raised by single parents, or grandparents, or aunts and uncles or older siblings? Were we not from real families then as we did not have a "Mom" and a "Dad"??

 

[MrPirate]

In America, we have a freedom of speech and of religion, which means if I say that practicing homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven, I am exercising my rights.

And when someone says you are wrong they are exercising their rights

And when someone says you are wrong they are exercising their rights

When Dobson lies about homosexuals it is his right.
It is also the right and responsibility of every good person to confront those leis and tell the truth.

What is not a “right” is to deny a minority equality because of your personal beliefs.

Also, from a Christian perspective, saying this means being light and salt. That's a command Christians must follow, which was given to us by Jesus (Matthew 5:12-14). I don't care if the worldly culture woud call it discrimination, because God does not want us to be friends of the world.

Yet this thread is nothing but a complaint about people telling the truth and calling discrimination what it is and the fact you don’t like that.
How will God react to the fact you ignored the single command of Jesus John 13:34-35 in order to promote and defend discrimination?

As far as with Equality Riders accusing Christian colleges of "spiritual violence." Check this video:
http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770312038

Once again, the charges they made against Central Bible Colleges turned out to be false.

So those advocating equality and freedom at Central bible college wer ento turned away? Yes

Did college officials refuse to meet with these people? Yes

Were they refused entrance? Yes

Does the college disparage minorities? Yes

Does the college call gays and lesbians “diseased”? Yes




What exactly “turned out to be false”?

Is it the biblical verses condemning the practice of homosexuality or the position that children need a mother and a father? Well, the first one is the truth, the second one is true most of the times, and there are many researches to support it.

The first is your opinion and not one supported by fact either.


The second is an unsupported claim one that flies in the face of researchers and their findings

I'm just curious, where do you stand on an issue where biological parents give their children away to same-sex couples, like in Spike Lee's "She hate me," in order to promote "equality?" Is that morally right?

Is it morally right that all children deserve loving and caring parents? Of course it is.

why do you want to deny childrne this?

not having seen teh movie i cannot comment on any parrelles

Like I said before; from a Christian perspective, what Soulforce and other left wingers are doing is incorrect.

Since when is confronting hatred and false witness incorrect form anyone’s standards much less form a Christians?

The current tendency of political gay movement is not just about encouraging tolerance for homosexual behavior, but promoting intolerance against those who disagree with it.

To bad you don’t have any evidence to back up this fantasy conspiracy theory

 

[Phinehas2]

You see immediately following the OP which presents reasons for the opinion we have a gay and lesbaian response which is mere unsupported opinion and totally misleading.

Not to far off from Nazis...most of these "family advocates" such as the AFA and Focus on the Family use false statistics and unethical means to push their anti-gay spin on people.

The Nazis perecuted Christians as well as homosexuals. Homosexual=gay=having same-sex attraction. The family is defined thus
a. A fundamental social group in society typically consisting of one or two parents and their children.
b. Two or more people who share goals and values, have long-term commitments to one another, and reside usually in the same dwelling place.
the first definition is the Christian one, Gen 1 & 2 and throught the Bible and NT, 1 Cor 7 etc.
The second one is the secular one.
The first one is what happens naturally and according to God's created order, and being gay, having a same-sex attraction doesnt stop anyone marrying someone of the opposite sex and having children.
Gay thinking is against God's creation and nature and denies the family, biological parents, man and woman.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Mr Pirate,

How will God react to the fact you ignored the single command of Jesus John 13:34-35 in order to promote and defend discrimination?

He hasnt ignored it. How will God react to you judging the saints?
John 13:34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
If you love one another not if you have sex with one another. The word here translated as love is agape. the word is certainly not eros. Agape and particualrly God's agape is described and defined in the Bible.
1 John 4 "God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
So to live through Him is to live in Him. John 14-15. When we obey His teaching we love Him and He loves us.
John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 15;10 "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."