What makes Evolution a theory?

[The Barbarian]

If you mean we have watched a species change from one to another, you are wrong. Else, prove it.

As creationists, we must frequently remind detractors that we do not deny that species vary, change, and even appear over time....Before the time of Charles Darwin, a false idea had crept into the church—the belief in the “fixity” or “immutability” of species. According to this view, each species was created in precisely the same form that we find it today. The Bible nowhere teaches that species are fixed and unchanging.

Speciation

Speciation, the formation of new species, is not evolution in action. Rather, it demonstrates the incredible variety God put within each created kind.

answersingenesis.org

Most YECs now admit the evolution of new species, genera, and sometimes families. They just don't want to call it "evolution."

 

[The Barbarian]

Doesn't that assume evolution is true? If evolution is not true, then of course there will be debates about things of the most fundamental nature of the theory.

Evolution is descent with modification (Darwin's term) or a change in allele frequencies in a population (modern synthesis). This is directly observed. You might as well deny gravity. The fact of evolution is not debatable. How it happens is evolutionary theory.

 

[CoreyD]

That's not what it says. Nothing about "fully formed and complex." That's someone's addition to God's word.

Adam and Eve did not have a full body working to allow them to eat and defecate... and a brain to allow him to do that?
Okay. That's your view.

According to the Bible... Adam had a brain, a mouth, a stomach... a fully functioning reproductive system... Genesis 1-3 the list goes on.
According to science...

The human brain is considered one of the most complex structures in the known universe, far surpassing the complexity of a single cell. The brain contains around 86 billion neurons and over 100 trillion synaptic connections, which allow for intricate interactions and functions. 2 6 In contrast, a cell, while complex in its own right, does not possess the same level of structural and functional complexity as the brain. Cells can perform specialized functions and interact with other cells, but they do not have the same capacity for emergent properties like consciousness or complex cognitive processes. 3​

​

The brain's complexity is not just about the number of neurons but also about the myriad connections and interactions between them, which give rise to consciousness and other cognitive functions.25 This complexity is difficult to fully map and understand, as evidenced by large-scale research projects like the Human Brain Project and the BRAIN Initiative, which have made significant progress but still fall short of fully mapping the brain's structure and function. 2 5​

It doesn't sound like you know much about the Bible. Either that, or you do know this, but the idea of scientific theories being antichrist doesn't make you feel very comfortable.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, you do need scientists to tell you things. Because there are different fields in science.

My degrees are in biology and systems. But I don't need a physicist to apply Newton's laws.

 

[The Barbarian]

That's not what it says. Nothing about "fully formed and complex." That's someone's addition to God's word.

Adam and Eve did not have a full body working to allow them to eat and defecate... and a brain to allow him to do that?
Okay. That's your view.

You can add stuff that seems right to you, of course. But that's not God's word. It's just your additions. Why not just accept it the way God said it?

Since the text itself says that the "days" are not literal days, why change scripture to make them so? In Genesis 1, it says six days. In Genesis 2, it says heaven and earth were created in one day.

According to the Bible... Adam had a brain, a mouth, a stomach...

Again, additions to scripture. In ancient times, no one had any idea of the way a brain functioned. People thought the mind was in the heart.

The human brain is considered one of the most complex structures in the known universe, far surpassing the complexity of a single cell.

Give that it's made of many millions of cells, that's not surprising. What's impressive is that the known universe has all sorts of "brains" from the super complex multibrain system of octopuses to mere collections of ganglia. And all sorts of transitional stages in between.

The brain's complexity is not just about the number of neurons but also about the myriad connections and interactions between them, which give rise to consciousness and other cognitive functions.

Consciousness may be an epiphenomenon of the brain, but that's not all it is. The question of consciousness has not been resolved.

It doesn't sound like you know much about the Bible.

I had to correct you on several misconceptions you have about the Bible. You don't seem to know much of the Bible or of science. No scientific theory can be antiChrist, because science can't even comment on the supernatural. Why not take a little time to read up on these things and then come back and take part in the discussion?

 

[All Becomes New]

Observed Instances of Speciation

LOL. What a joke. I see nothing in this that could be described as from one "kind" to another. Wow, super minor differences between stuff that can't make offspring, so cool!

 

[All Becomes New]

Evolution is descent with modification (Darwin's term) or a change in allele frequencies in a population (modern synthesis). This is directly observed. You might as well deny gravity. The fact of evolution is not debatable. How it happens is evolutionary theory.

Everyone agrees that small, minor changes happen over time. But we don't even know what a species is...

 

[All Becomes New]

My degrees are in biology and systems. But I don't need a physicist to apply Newton's laws.

So? I don't have any degrees to speak of, but I can get Newton's laws to work just fine.

 

[CoreyD]

CoreyD said:
According to the Bible... Adam had a brain, a mouth, a stomach...

Again, additions to scripture. In ancient times, no one had any idea of the way a brain functioned. People thought the mind was in the heart.

So, you don't think Adam had a functioning brain.
Yet the Bible says that at Acts 17:26 we read... From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth, which harmonizes with Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.” and Genesis 4:1 - And Adam had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man,” she said.

Cain must not have had a functioning brain either. Nor his offspring
Okay Mr. Barbarian sir. You have a nice peaceful day.

 

[River Jordan]

Please indulge me.

I see you've already been given some examples of the evolution of new species, and I'll add some more.

Examples of Speciation

Finding speciation examples can be both helpful and fascinating, as the process itself is interesting. Discover some of these examples with our help.

www.yourdictionary.com

If your reply is going to be that those aren't "kinds" I have to ask what a "kind" is.

 

[All Becomes New]

I see you've already been given some examples of the evolution of new species, and I'll add some more.

Examples of Speciation

Finding speciation examples can be both helpful and fascinating, as the process itself is interesting. Discover some of these examples with our help.

www.yourdictionary.com

If your reply is going to be that those aren't "kinds" I have to ask what a "kind" is.

They don't demonstrate this is happening, they assume it is happening. They have theories on how this is happening, but that's it. Nothing concrete.

 

[River Jordan]

They don't demonstrate this is happening, they assume it is happening. They have theories on how this is happening, but that's it. Nothing concrete.

Huh? Speciation has been done in labs and documented in the field.

I see no reason to deny it.

 

[All Becomes New]

Huh? Speciation has been done in labs and documented in the field.

I see no reason to deny it.

We don't even know what a species is...

And we are talking about a squirrel turning into a squirrel. The stuff is boring to read, and it all sounds like stuff for itching ears.

 

[River Jordan]

We don't even know what a species is...

Sure we do! It can mean different things depending on what type of organisms we're working with, such as asexual vs. sexual reproducers, but we still know when we've seen a new species evolve. In most cases it's just a matter of reproductive isolation.

And we are talking about a squirrel turning into a squirrel. The stuff is boring to read, and it all sounds like stuff for itching ears.

"Squirrel" isn't a species. Do you remember the taxonomic system you learned in high school? Sorry you find biology boring. I think it's very interesting.

 

[Job 33:6]

LOL. What a joke. I see nothing in this that could be described as from one "kind" to another. Wow, super minor differences between stuff that can't make offspring, so cool!

The only thing here that is a joke is your response to observed instances of speciation. If you have a problem with reality, that's on you.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Bible is not a scientific book. I agree on that. Neither is the Bible anti-scientific. That is where you are wrong. The Bible does not get things factually wrong. Maybe our interpretation needs to change or maybe our science needs to change, but the Bible is not wrong.

And I think you are putting WAY too much emphasis on ancient Israelite cosmology. If it's not a science book, then it doesn't answer scientific questions, and cosmology is a scientific question. Also, see my first point. From your point of view, we have no reason to believe the first verse of the Bible unless it is first proven with science. If we were before big bang cosmology, then you, as a scientist, would believe the universe was eternal.

The Bible is true in what it affirms, but it need not be scientifically accurate.

And that is where you are wrong.

The first verse of the Bible has nothing to do with science. You have much to learn.

 

[The Barbarian]

Everyone agrees that small, minor changes happen over time. But we don't even know what a species is...

Which is another reason why scientists and most Christians reject YEC. If YEC was correct, we'd see nice, discreet boundaries between species. Instead, we see transitional populations, half-species, quarter-species, and so on. This was predicted by Darwin, because it would have to be like that if evolution of new species was a fact.

And we are talking about a squirrel turning into a squirrel.

Sort of like an hominoid turning into a hominoid. You've just accepted the evolution of humans from other apes.

 

[All Becomes New]

Which is another reason why scientists and most Christians reject YEC. If YEC was correct, we'd see nice, discreet boundaries between species. Instead, we see transitional populations, half-species, quarter-species, and so on. This was predicted by Darwin, because it would have to be like that if evolution of new species was a fact.

I don't believe in YEC so you are barking up the wrong tree.

Sort of like an hominoid turning into a hominoid. You've just accepted the evolution of humans from other apes.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[The Barbarian]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You losing sleep over it? Why not just accept it God's way?

 

[All Becomes New]

Why not just accept it God's way?

Do you often say your opinion is "God's way"?