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What Makes an Authoritarian?

nvxplorer

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In the spirit of our "What Makes an Atheist" thread, I'm interested in what drives people who have authoritarian mindsets. Myself, I am an extreme individualist who cannot relate to authoritarian thinking.

I'm not rebellious, so don't misunderstand the OP. I have respect for proper authority, under respective circumstances; i.e., my boss is a proper authority at my place of employment, the law is the proper authority where it is concerned; neither have any authority over my private life.

What I'm seeking to understand is authoritarianism. Not political/governmental authoritarianism, but this, which is a fine definition of what I'm describing:

Authoritarian: expecting unquestioning obedience

Being a Christian-based forum, I fully expect the obvious: God is the ultimate authority, the Bible is His word, and Christians are called to obey unquestioningly. This is an adequate answer, but I'm looking for a little more. Why do you feel this way? How does this mindset effect your everyday life? Does your willingness to obey God/the Bible without question cause you to expect others to do the same?

This is not limited to Christians, of course, nor Christian thinking.
 

nvxplorer

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I think a good angle to start from is why parents expect unquestioned obedience from their children (young children, not adult children).
Good point, and I believe my individualism has been shaped by this. My father was a strict authoritarian. His reasoning was simple: "I'm the father." He was also a brutal alcoholic. I was a bright child - the oldest of three - and I witnessed my father as an abusive dictator whose reasoning and actions made no sense. If his decisions and actions had been beneficial, "Because I'm the father" may have made perfect sense; I would have learned to trust his judgement. Sadly, not only did he cause extreme pain for the family, but eventually, it became painful to simply be in the same room with him - much like an abused animal will cower at the sight of its abuser. Because of this, I learned to question authority at a very young age. It was incomprehensible to me that a person who terrorized us could possibly love us. I can relate this to a benevolent God who threatens us with eternal torment, which is equally incomprehensible.

Anyway, that's a brief synopsis of my upbringing, but I don't want the thread to focus on me. I'm not an authoritarian. I want to hear from people who are, and from those who may have some insight into why they are.
 
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RavenPoe

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"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out again!!!"

I always thought that parents feel like because they did a favor for the kid, he or she was obligated to pay them back for the rest of their lives, since Mommy and Daddy gave them those lives.

On a grander scale, same thing for God.
 
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Q2004

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"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out again!!!"

I always thought that parents feel like because they did a favor for the kid, he or she was obligated to pay them back for the rest of their lives, since Mommy and Daddy gave them those lives.

On a grander scale, same thing for God.

My father (either heard someone's theory or thought it up himself) has decided that it's exactly the other way around. The child owes nothing to its parents, as it had no choice to be born or no. The parents owe their child everything, for the fullfilment the child provided them.

In respect to the OP, I haven't the slightest idea what might foster an authoritarian mindset. We've all met control freaks. Maybe some see it better as extended to a grander scale and not limited to their personal relationships? Sort of, universalizing a personal need for order?

I don't think anyone with an authoritarian mindset would be capable of the kind of introspection this thread calls for, but you never know.
 
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RavenPoe

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My father (either heard someone's theory or thought it up himself) has decided that it's exactly the other way around. The child owes nothing to its parents, as it had no choice to be born or no. The parents owe their child everything, for the fullfilment the child provided them.

Just to say this is they way of things as I believe them as well. A child is a responsibility, not slavery.
 
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Mjonller

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I am going to guess that those with any sort of power who are also have parts of thier life that are going wrong for them, so they must have to have stability. That is one possibilities that could be it, however, it could just be someone who just wants to have power or exert thier mind set upon another.
 
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Why do parents expect unquestioned obedience from their children?


Its a defense strategy, we must have evolved over the years, the parents have survived in a hostile environment, therefore the children, doing as the parents say without question, are more likely to survive too


I see authoritarian parents, and I just feel sad, in the modern world I do not see the necessity, it is pointless, thank God, my parents are not like that
 
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StoneDeaf

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In the spirit of our "What Makes an Atheist" thread, I'm interested in what drives people who have authoritarian mindsets. Myself, I am an extreme individualist who cannot relate to authoritarian thinking.

I'm not rebellious, so don't misunderstand the OP. I have respect for proper authority, under respective circumstances; i.e., my boss is a proper authority at my place of employment, the law is the proper authority where it is concerned; neither have any authority over my private life.

What I'm seeking to understand is authoritarianism. Not political/governmental authoritarianism, but this, which is a fine definition of what I'm describing:

Authoritarian: expecting unquestioning obedience

Being a Christian-based forum, I fully expect the obvious: God is the ultimate authority, the Bible is His word, and Christians are called to obey unquestioningly. This is an adequate answer, but I'm looking for a little more. Why do you feel this way? How does this mindset effect your everyday life? Does your willingness to obey God/the Bible without question cause you to expect others to do the same?

This is not limited to Christians, of course, nor Christian thinking.
Authoritarianism is a political term and it's applied to things like absolute monarchies, dictatorships, and despotisms-- military dictatorships, fascism, and of course, in large corporations (and some not so large one's, too).

Beyond that, I'm having a difficult time following you. You say you are an "extreme individualist," but there is political individualism, too, you know.Or are you talking Ethics, e.g., Ethical Egoism?

Then you juxtapose God and Authoritarianism, Does your willingness to obey God/the Bible without question cause you to expect others to do the same? Are you now talking Theocracy? I thought you may have meant something like social psychology and the relevance of authorianism to social attitudes, but attitudes to what? I just got a bit confused.

So what are you asking?
 
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nvxplorer

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Authoritarianism is a political term and it's applied to things like absolute monarchies, dictatorships, and despotisms-- military dictatorships, fascism, and of course, in large corporations (and some not so large one's, too).
No, I stated that I wasn't referring to political autoritarianism. I provided a simple definition: Expecting unquestioned obedience. I should add that this definition works both ways; expecting to be obeyed, and expecting oneself to obey.
Beyond that, I'm having a difficult time following you. You say you are an "extreme individualist," but there is political individualism, too, you know.Or are you talking Ethics, e.g., Ethical Egoism?
I'm speaking of authority in general. In describing myself as an individualist, I'm saying that I derive authority for myself (my worldview) through independent thought and experience. Others do not. The source of authority can vary: A political extremist; i.e., a hard-line liberal or conservative, can derive authority from political parties or ideology. An example would be someone who supports illegal immigration based not on the phenomenon itself, but because a liberal authoritative mindset dictates that poor minorities must be supported. There are many such sources and examples I could give, including peer/societal pressue and religious doctrine.
Then you juxtapose God and Authoritarianism, Does your willingness to obey God/the Bible without question cause you to expect others to do the same? Are you now talking Theocracy? I thought you may have meant something like social psychology and the relevance of authorianism to social attitudes, but attitudes to what? I just got a bit confused.
No, I'm not concerned with rule of law or systems of government. I'm speaking of mindsets, so yes, the psychology of obedience is what I'm after.

Examples I gave in the OP - my respect for the authority of my boss and the law - are explained pragmatically. I don't obey my boss unquestioningly. I obey him because I want to retain and succeed in my job.

The homosexual rights debate is a prime example of what I'm discussing. The reason given by many in denying rights is simply "because God says so." (There is currently such a thread in this forum.) Such people are exercising unquestioned authority.

So what are you asking?
Hopefully, I've cleared a few things up for you. I'll repeat my main question: What drives people who have authoritarian mindsets? In other words, what causes a need/desire to blindly obey? What are the effects of such a mindset? Do those who themselves blindly submit to authority feel a need for others to do the same?
 
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StoneDeaf

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Thanks for answering my last post, nvxplorer. I was reading between the lines, as I am familiar with Authoritarian Personality Theory, and I wanted to know where you were coming from, or what you may have been trying to get at.

Anyway, my way of approaching this theory (and others) is from the perspective of human development, social work, and intercultural studies which have been the focus of my graduate work-- so far anyway.

So, here it is-- One of the most influential but controversial postwar studies was The Authoritarian Personality published in 1950, and written by Theodor Adorno, Else Frenkel-Brunswick, Daniel Levinson, and R. Nevitt. What I find interesting is that they honestly tried to understand behavior and society by mixing Marxism with psychoanalytic theory. The Authoritarian Personality was part of a series called Studies in Prejudice, sponsored by the American Jewish Committee as part of an effort to produce research on religious and racial prejudice, especially, but not exclusively, anti-Semitism. So, it’s virtually impossible to completely strip this theory from its political roots.

The term "authoritarian personality" represents a syndrome of conservative attitudes, religious, national, and attitudinal intolerance, rigid emotional and cognitive functioning and personality traits which are thought to stem from deep personal conflicts and are reflected in compulsiveness, inordinate recourse to defense mechanisms, and distorted satisfaction of repressed drives.

The theory claims that individuals who tend to be influenced by Fascist propaganda often developed early childhood hatred for authoritarian figures (their mean old parents), which could not be repressed under any circumstances. According to the theorists, the reaction to the forbidden hatred is a tendency to admire and conform to power and authority. The aggression originally experienced towards the parents is displaced onto weaker figures; ethnic minorities, or groups who deviate from social norms, are prime examples.

After finding correlations between anti-Semitism and prejudices against other minorities, they made the claim that the most important trait is a tendency to glorify power, to admire authoritative figures and submit to their demands, on the one hand, and a contempt for weakness, sentimentalism or compassion, on the other. Such attitudes were defined as an "authoritarian approach." The main, but not the only, instrument for assessing the underlying authoritarian personality is the so-called F-Scale (F for fascist). This scale consists of the following categories:

Conventionalism -- the tendency to accept and obey social conventions and the rules of authority figures; adherence to the traditional and accepted
Authoritarian Submission -- submission to authorities and authority figures
Authoritarian Aggression -- an aggressive attitude towards individuals or groups disliked by authorities; particularly those who threaten traditional values
Anti-Intraception -- rejection of the subjective, imaginative and aesthetic
Substitution and Stereotypy -- superstition, cliché, categorization and fatalistic determinism
Power and Toughness -- identification with those in power, excessive emphasis on socially advocated ego qualities
Destructiveness and Cynicism -- general hostility, putting others down
Projectivity -- the tendency to believe in the existence of evil in the world and to project unconscious emotional impulses outward
Sex -- exaggerated concerns with respect to sexual activity

These are, of course, categories that transcend political leanings or even the theory’s perceived bias. Nevertheless, I prefer Alfred Adler’s perspective. He said that the "will to power over others" is a central neurotic trait, usually emerging as aggressive over-compensation for feelings of inferiority. The authoritarian needs to maintain control and needs to validate superiority. This sounds a lot like Narcissism, but unlike malignant narcissism, authoritarianism is rooted in a mind set occupied by enemies (real or imagined) rather than admirers who can keep up the narcissistic supply. One thing they do have in common is an attitude devoid of a sense of equality or empathy, and I think that is significant. Such a personality is described well by Dr. Nina Brown in her books dealing with the pathologically self-absorbed. It’s worth mentioning since the authoritarian she writes about is preoccupied with his or her own emotions, interests, or situations so that Dr. Brown believes such people deserve their own classification in the diagnostic manual (DSM-IV).

There’s my take-- The Reader’s Digest condensed version, too. Imagine-- this is me being “brief.” Like they used to say, “nisht geferlech.”
 
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variant

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People with authoritarian mindsets (whether politically or personally) usually exhibit one or all of the following in my experience.

1. A severe psychological need to either exert their power over others or to control others, or to be lead by those who do have power.

2. The inability to deal with, or be comfortable with ambiguity.

3. A tendency to group things and think of things in black/white ways.

4. A severe lack of curiosity, playfulness, or willingness for experimentation.

5. Closed mindedness towards ideas different than their own.

6. Low self esteem.
 
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jayem

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There's an on-line F Scale that's rather interesting. One question is only relevant to the post-war German population that Adorno studied but, the questionnaire is still kinda fun.

I scored 2.333... liberal airhead. :thumbsup:


http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
 
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QuantaCura

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3.1333 You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Within normal limits; an appropriate score for an American. (The overall average score for groups tested in the original study is listed in the 1950 publication as 3.84, with men averaging somewhat higher and women somewhat lower.)

Slightly left of a 1950 American--that's about right :D
 
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ChristianCenturion

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In the spirit of our "What Makes an Atheist" thread, I'm interested in what drives people who have authoritarian mindsets. Myself, I am an extreme individualist who cannot relate to authoritarian thinking.

I'm not rebellious, so don't misunderstand the OP. I have respect for proper authority, under respective circumstances; i.e., my boss is a proper authority at my place of employment, the law is the proper authority where it is concerned; neither have any authority over my private life.

What I'm seeking to understand is authoritarianism. Not political/governmental authoritarianism, but this, which is a fine definition of what I'm describing:

Authoritarian: expecting unquestioning obedience

Being a Christian-based forum, I fully expect the obvious: God is the ultimate authority, the Bible is His word, and Christians are called to obey unquestioningly. This is an adequate answer, but I'm looking for a little more. Why do you feel this way? How does this mindset effect your everyday life? Does your willingness to obey God/the Bible without question cause you to expect others to do the same?

This is not limited to Christians, of course, nor Christian thinking.

Based on what I'm seeing in the post, I suppose I should ask if you realize that Authoritarianism is usually measured on a scale?
And I'm thinking that Authoritarianism reasoning is being confused with faith and reciprocated love.
Hopefully, I'm wrong in the latter inference.
 
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nvxplorer

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Based on what I'm seeing in the post, I suppose I should ask if you realize that Authoritarianism is usually measured on a scale?
Yes, I'm aware of the axis from libertarian to authoritarian. I'm familiar with internet tests such as the one linked by jayem.
And I'm thinking that Authoritarianism reasoning is being confused with faith and reciprocated love.
No, I'm not confusing authoritarian personality with faith. Since this is a Christian forum, and conservative Christians often express their belief in the authority of God/the Bible, I only mentioned the obvious. Browsing any homosexual thread reveals those Christians who are authoritarian and those who are not.

I'm not clear on how you relate authoritarian personality to reciprocated love?
 
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FundyChick

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In the spirit of our "What Makes an Atheist" thread, I'm interested in what drives people who have authoritarian mindsets. Myself, I am an extreme individualist who cannot relate to authoritarian thinking.

I'm not rebellious, so don't misunderstand the OP. I have respect for proper authority, under respective circumstances; i.e., my boss is a proper authority at my place of employment, the law is the proper authority where it is concerned; neither have any authority over my private life.

What I'm seeking to understand is authoritarianism. Not political/governmental authoritarianism, but this, which is a fine definition of what I'm describing:

Authoritarian: expecting unquestioning obedience

Being a Christian-based forum, I fully expect the obvious: God is the ultimate authority, the Bible is His word, and Christians are called to obey unquestioningly. This is an adequate answer, but I'm looking for a little more. Why do you feel this way? How does this mindset effect your everyday life? Does your willingness to obey God/the Bible without question cause you to expect others to do the same?

This is not limited to Christians, of course, nor Christian thinking.
I question alll authority. If I am at school, I will decide if they own me or not. If I am at home, I have to obey. God, however... if he gave us all free will, he can't be mad at us when we think for ourselves.
 
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StoneDeaf

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variant: Thanks for the lesson in brevity!

jayem: Thanks for the link.

Some people are born with an urge to jump from high places. I might get a tatoo with that on it. I scored a 2.26 = Liberal Airhead! And I thought I was conservative. Well, that explains everything! What a relief...
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Yes, I'm aware of the axis from libertarian to authoritarian. I'm familiar with internet tests such as the one linked by jayem.
Well, given the examples or questions, I had to ask.

I'm not a real big fan of the internet tests.
They seem a bit simplistic and sometimes skewed.
No, I'm not confusing authoritarian personality with faith. Since this is a Christian forum, and conservative Christians often express their belief in the authority of God/the Bible, I only mentioned the obvious. Browsing any homosexual thread reveals those Christians who are authoritarian and those who are not.
You might wish to reconsider evaluating things based on a one topic talking point.

I'm just mentioning the obvious there too.
I'm not clear on how you relate authoritarian personality to reciprocated love?

Probably because I'm not comparing it.
I was mentioning it as a reason someone would submit to an authority in contrast. Because the "why" or "reasons" someone may use, obey or submit to authority are varied. Love and respect are only a few reasons someone would honor or favor an authority and it could "appear" as Authoritarian, but it could also result in not being "Authoritarian" when examined more in-depth.

I had thought you were interested in the "why" or reason, but I don't see much of the other reasoning being considered apart from a concentration on the 'blind' portion in the earlier submission for a definition. A definition, BTW, that isn't really relating to Christianity in that the reason someone sets Christ as Lord of their heart is not a preference for the Authoritarian structure.
 
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