What makes a pagan 'pagan?'

payattention

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Vaudois said:
How is it that you see that see pagans and mis-informed professed christians are on equal footing (as to knowing Him) with those that are lead by the Lord?

Are you saying that those in darkness know as much as those that are not?

Are you saying that you personally knew everything you now know about God now, even before you were converted by Him?
If you think it is a question of how much you know you could be flirting with a form of gnosticism. But, see how you are bristling at the thought that you could be at the same state as the people you condemn. A caricature is a caricature. I am not a better Christian now than I was when I knew less; I am only a more enlightened Christian.
 
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Vaudois

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I have no bristles or boiling blood, and you have imagined any condemnation of anyone on my part.

I ask the question again more completely: "Is darkness (little or no knowledge of God in Christ) equal in your eyes as light (some and hopefully increasing knowledge of God in Christ)?"

Is this verse "gnostic" to you?

[BIBLE]"We preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Corinthians 4:5, 6. [/BIBLE]
 
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payattention

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Vaudois said:
IIs this verse "gnostic" to you?

[BIBLE]"We preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Corinthians 4:5, 6. [/BIBLE]
That text does not say what you are saying. Paul's purpose was to bring a better understanding of God through the person of Jesus Christ. What he described is a fact. You err by presuming that this indicates how God viewed Paul's audience. If you say that we become children of God upon conversion you deny the Creation.
 
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payattention

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Vaudois said:
You have every right to your opinion.
Would you care to answer the first question above?
The only difference between darkness and light, in this context, is that a higher obligation comes with the light. Sadly, many who are in darkness have a greater sense of compassion than those in the light. God decides. It is not up to me.
 
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Vaudois

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Sure: I can site many compassionate acts from my Muslim and Buddhist friends; it's not a question of compassion I see. Compassion is not a copyrighted trait of religious christians. Let's not confuse a common human emotion with what we are discussing: paganism vs. Christ.

But you didn't answer my question:

I ask the question again more completely: "Is darkness (little or no knowledge of God in Christ) equal in your eyes as light (some and hopefully increasing knowledge of God in Christ)?"
 
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smooze

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Pagans worship worldly holidays and believe the Earth is full of energy and can harness this energy. I knew a witch who said she could conjure up demons. i challenged her on it to send 1 to my house but none arrived. Awwww blind faith but demons or fallen angels will not take commands from us . I feel when people get mentally ill and destroy their temples (body) thats when the demons attack. thats why Jesus said to keep them clean. ! day we will have to look in our hearts for truth when the Great tribulation comes. Brothers and Sisters are we ready! Pagans have no significance to anything. AMEN Happy SAbbAth . ground up veggie meat that trys to taste like turkey at potluck tommorow mmmmmyummy! NOT
 
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payattention

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Vaudois said:
Sure: I can site many compassionate acts from my Muslim and Buddhist friends; it's not a question of compassion I see. Compassion is not a copyrighted trait of religious christians. Let's not confuse a common human emotion with what we are discussing: paganism vs. Christ.
Do you have a list of those copyrighted traits of religious christians? Please tell me what a few of them are. Also, please indicate why you think God would sign of on that list?
Vaudois said:
But you didn't answer my question:

I ask the question again more completely: "Is darkness (little or no knowledge of God in Christ) equal in your eyes as light (some and hopefully increasing knowledge of God in Christ)?"
A Yes or No is not a meaningful answer to this question, so please explain why you are not satisfied with the response I gave to you.
 
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StormyOne

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Vaudois said:
Sure: I can site many compassionate acts from my Muslim and Buddhist friends; it's not a question of compassion I see. Compassion is not a copyrighted trait of religious christians. Let's not confuse a common human emotion with what we are discussing: paganism vs. Christ.

But you didn't answer my question:

I ask the question again more completely: "Is darkness (little or no knowledge of God in Christ) equal in your eyes as light (some and hopefully increasing knowledge of God in Christ)?"

Paul says that we see through a glass darkly... so they are about the same.....The issue is not the person, it is Christ.... the story of the laborers... those who started early in the day or late in the day got paid the same...
 
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Vaudois

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Stormy? You are using 1 Cor.13: 10-13, where Paul is talking about the gifts of the Spirit and the coming of that which is Perfect (Christ) who will clarify our 'knowing in part" to suggest that paganism and Truth are "about the same"??
I assume you are saying other christians are the basis of the Penny Labours, not pagans.
 
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payattention

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Vaudois said:
Stormy? You are using 1 Cor.13: 10-13, where Paul is talking about the gifts of the Spirit and the coming of that which is Perfect (Christ) who will clarify our 'knowing in part" to suggest that paganism and Truth are "about the same"??
I assume you are saying other christians are the basis of the Penny Labours, not pagans.
Vaudois, the most powerful indicator that you are wrong on this point is the fact that while God says He winks in the face of ignorance your philosophy would not allow you to. That says a great deal.
 
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StormyOne

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Vaudois said:
Stormy? You are using 1 Cor.13: 10-13, where Paul is talking about the gifts of the Spirit and the coming of that which is Perfect (Christ) who will clarify our 'knowing in part" to suggest that paganism and Truth are "about the same"??
I assume you are saying other christians are the basis of the Penny Labours, not pagans.

In 1 Cor. 13 Paul is talking about the importance of one gift love... and he pointed out that we can get alot of things wrong, that the other "gifts" will end, but not love....

Knowing in part and not knowing at all are they the same? they could be it depends....
 
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payattention

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StormyOne said:
Knowing in part and not knowing at all are they the same? they could be it depends....
But that is not what God is concerned about. He is concerned with how we respond to what we know. Most pagans are convinced that they are giving their allegiance to the Master of the Universe and do so with all their heart. How do you think the Master of the Universe relates to that devotion, compared to the informed Christian who couldn't care less?
 
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Vaudois

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I understand you Jonathan, thanks!

Stormy: Love is only one aspect of Paul's text: the coming of the Perfect one and "seeing things as they, not in a glass darkly" is more on target to what we are discussing.

Pagans are in black darkness; you say maybe not, depends. Would you mind showing me in the Bible where idol worshipping pagans, slaves of evil and hostages of confusion are on equal footing IN KNOWLEDGE of GOD with those that are rescued from darkness?
 
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StormyOne

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Vaudois said:
I understand you Jonathan, thanks!

Stormy: Love is only one aspect of Paul's text: the coming of the Perfect one and "seeing things as they, not in a glass darkly" is more on target to what we are discussing.

Pagans are in black darkness; you say maybe not, depends. Would you mind showing me in the Bible where idol worshipping pagans, slaves of evil and hostages of confusion are on equal footing IN KNOWLEDGE of GOD with those that are rescued from darkness?

Vaudois, (how is that pronounced by the way)
idol worshipping pagans? as opposed to christians who worship a God of their own making? That would be the same.... In Amos we have an example of the COI who were worshipping a God of their own making, thinking that they were worshipping God and it was offensive... so in a sense maybe those who don't know maybe on better footing than those who think they do know.....

Amos 5:21-24 I, the LORD, hate and despise your religious celebrations and your times of worship. (22) I won't accept your offerings or animal sacrifices-- not even your very best. (23) No more of your noisy songs! I won't listen when you play your harps. (24) But let justice and fairness flow like a river that never runs dry.

 
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Vaudois

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I'll get tactically practical:

I know alot a bees. How they fly, where, the dynamics of their nectur hunting paths and flight times.

Would you let me pilot your next jet flight based on that?

Knowing in part is very dangerous, especially if it's the Satanic based part.

How many "partial knowers" would you let loose at you job, in complete control?
 
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StormyOne

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Vaudois said:
I'll get tactically practical:

I know alot a bees. How they fly, where, the dynamics of their nectur hunting paths and flight times.

Would you let me pilot your next jet flight based on that?

Knowing in part is very dangerous, especially if it's the Satanic based part.

How many "partial knowers" would you let loose at you job, in complete control?

Apples and oranges... we are not discussing "control." God is in control so that is a moot point.....knowing in part is dangerous even when the part is Christianity....
 
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Vaudois

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Back-sliders and the spiritually proud are sickening to God, for sure.

However, we are discussing ignorance, not rebellion.

The tree worshipping jungle native in my area is not as knowledgable of the true God as even the "church-lady" hypocrite on Pew #1.

If Church-lady is so self-loving as to refuse manna right in her lap, that does not compare with a pagan who knows zip about manna at all.

I think we are comparing apples to coconuts here.
 
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