What made us live in a house?

[juvenissun]

This is surreal.

If, indeed, it is better to live in a cave or a tree-house, why don't you do it? Seriously. Go live there and let us know how much better your life is than it is now.

See, what you said is part of the problem.

I like to live in a cave (natural or not). But a livable cave should at least be built on a hilly area. Otherwise, flood will be a problem. If I made a cave house, it is likely that it will be a little far from "cities" and electricity and water supply could be in trouble. That is why people today seldom live in a cave. Now, do you think this "environmental" change, which drove people away from cave-dwelling is part of biological evolution?

Of course not. If not, why did it happen?

 

[juvenissun]

But first you have to dig out your cave, without metal shovels of course, and hope it doesn't collapse on you in the middle of the night, or you could domesticate beavers to cut down trees and trim them into planks to shore up the roof of the cave.
That is the problem with evolving Lothlórien too, you need planks to build a tree house, not to mention a hammer and nails. In the mean time, kids falling out of bed can be a big problem

Rock a bye baby in the tree top...

True. It would be reasonable to imagine that these are some of the reasons for human to build primitive shelters on the ground. I would also imagine the earlier shelters were something like those demonstrated in the survivorman TV series. It shows that a suitable shelter is necessary(?) in the environment of forest, desert, mountain, arctic, etc. etc.

The question is still there. If such a shelter is desirable, why don't we also see apes make some? Are they really so dumb? (a loud YES!) (I have seen snow monkeys covered with snow. They don't seem like it)

 

[Mallon]

Are you seriously asking whether environment plays a role in shaping the evolution of life, juvie???

 

[Willtor]

See, what you said is part of the problem.

I like to live in a cave (natural or not). But a livable cave should at least be built on a hilly area. Otherwise, flood will be a problem. If I made a cave house, it is likely that it will be a little far from "cities" and electricity and water supply could be in trouble. That is why people today seldom live in a cave. Now, do you think this "environmental" change, which drove people away from cave-dwelling is part of biological evolution?

Of course not. If not, why did it happen?

And, naturally, this is precisely why people moved out of caves. There are measurements besides "easy" and "already exists." If a group of people follow a food source to a place with no caves then they will not have caves in which to live. If there exists a rock that is more suitable to tool-making and it is not within easy reach of a cave, people will likely move closer to that source. If a community discovers agriculture, they will move to a place most suitable to planting. Really, climate control is a very small factor in survivability next to any of these things.

 

[juvenissun]

Are you seriously asking whether environment plays a role in shaping the evolution of life, juvie???

In relative to the process of ape to human evolution. Yes.

 

[juvenissun]

And, naturally, this is precisely why people moved out of caves. There are measurements besides "easy" and "already exists." If a group of people follow a food source to a place with no caves then they will not have caves in which to live. If there exists a rock that is more suitable to tool-making and it is not within easy reach of a cave, people will likely move closer to that source. If a community discovers agriculture, they will move to a place most suitable to planting. Really, climate control is a very small factor in survivability next to any of these things.

I think what you said is true to apes too. The original question is still there: why haven't they developed something even remotely similar to a house? Are you impressed by a bird nest? I am. Is bird more evolved than ape?

 

[Mallon]

In relative to the process of ape to human evolution. Yes.

It amazes me how you can so adamantly deny evolution -- to the point of calling its subscribers stupid -- and yet display such an appalling understanding of it. Of course the environment plays a role in evolution, juvie! It's called natural selection, and is one of the main tenets of the evolutionary theory.
You should really have a careful look at this website:

Understanding Evolution

 

[Assyrian]

I think what you said is true to apes too. The original question is still there: why haven't they developed something even remotely similar to a house? Are you impressed by a bird nest? I am. Is bird more evolved than ape?

Gorilla nests

 

[The Barbarian]

No doubt chimps would consider themselves evolutionarily more advanced than people, because of their superior short-term memory and termite-catching technologies.

 

[gluadys]

I think what you said is true to apes too. The original question is still there: why haven't they developed something even remotely similar to a house? Are you impressed by a bird nest? I am. Is bird more evolved than ape?

Or maybe caddis fly larvae are.

Quite by accident today I discovered information on these tiny house builders who "skilfully build tubular houses for themselves out of materials they pick up from the bed of the stream. ... [P]erhaps the most impressive caddis houses are the ones built in local stone. The caddis chooses its stone carefully, rejecting those that are too large or too small for the current gap in the wall, even rotating the stone until it achieves the snuggest fit."

Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, 30th anniversary edition, p 238

 

[Willtor]

I think what you said is true to apes too. The original question is still there: why haven't they developed something even remotely similar to a house? Are you impressed by a bird nest? I am. Is bird more evolved than ape?

Neither a bird nor an ape is more evolved than the other. It's like asking which one adheres more closely to the laws of gravity. Evolution isn't about intelligence or technology or anything else we might value. Evolution is about the diversity of life on earth.

 

[juvenissun]

It amazes me how you can so adamantly deny evolution -- to the point of calling its subscribers stupid -- and yet display such an appalling understanding of it. Of course the environment plays a role in evolution, juvie! It's called natural selection, and is one of the main tenets of the evolutionary theory.
You should really have a careful look at this website:

Understanding Evolution

I guess I misunderstood your question. Fine, environment affects evolution.

Then, answer this: I guess you will give a reason that why human started to build house on flat land. But why didn't, for example, snow monkeys build an snow hut for themselves? By the way, I think polar bear knows how to do that.

 

[juvenissun]

Gorilla nests

This is great. Thanks. I read:

Gorillas sleep in nests, which they build on the ground or in trees, depending on various variables, such as the vegetation and the security situation. Every evening mountain gorillas construct a new nest, even if it is only a few metres from the nest they used the night before. Each animal builds its own nest; only infants sleep in the same nest as their mothers. About half an hour before it gets dark the gorillas settle in the nest. Occasionally, they also build nests for the midday rest.

The question is: If the description is true, then this type of gorilla should be really, really stupid and is not better than other non-nesting apes. For millions of years (?), may be hundreds of millions of this type of nest had been built. It simply amazed to me that the structure of the nest never change. In comparison, we can see how did the structure, style and size of human house change so rapidly.

What went wrong during the ape to human evolution?

 

[juvenissun]

No doubt chimps would consider themselves evolutionarily more advanced than people, because of their superior short-term memory and termite-catching technologies.

No. They don't. That is why are they stupid. They have unique talents, but they never develop them even a single step forward. The humanity of human, in fact, soundly and solidly "disprove" the theory of evolution.

 

[juvenissun]

Or maybe caddis fly larvae are.

Quite by accident today I discovered information on these tiny house builders who "skilfully build tubular houses for themselves out of materials they pick up from the bed of the stream. ... [P]erhaps the most impressive caddis houses are the ones built in local stone. The caddis chooses its stone carefully, rejecting those that are too large or too small for the current gap in the wall, even rotating the stone until it achieves the snuggest fit."

Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, 30th anniversary edition, p 238

Beautiful (creation). Thanks. The stone orientation part impressed me the most. This skill was simply lost in the process of evolution until Egyptians and Mayans picked it up again.

In comparison, "our ancestor" apes should be shamed to death.

 

[juvenissun]

Neither a bird nor an ape is more evolved than the other. It's like asking which one adheres more closely to the laws of gravity. Evolution isn't about intelligence or technology or anything else we might value. Evolution is about the diversity of life on earth.

Not true. When an evolutionist is cornered, this is a common defense.

Evolution DID go toward a direction. For TE people, this should not be a surprise.

So, according to you, which gene or chromosome made us start to build houses? The search should significantly be narrowed since we only have 3%(?) difference on DNA from chimps.

 

[metherion]

There isn't a gene for house building.

One of the main differences between humans and the rest of the great apes is 'hard' instincts. I don't remember the proper term. Pretty much, humans have only 3 hardwired instincts at birth: grasp, suckle, cry. The third might be something similar instead, like scream versus cry, i don't remember. Everything else is learned.

Does a baby instinctively try and build a house? No. It is a learned behavior. Is there a gene responsible for houses? Nope, it's all society and culture at this point.

Those are two of the huge things that separate us from the rest of the great apes. We have more learned behaviors versus hardwired, and an immensely larger and more diverse culture.

Not true. When an evolutionist is cornered, this is a common defense.

Evolution DID go toward a direction.

You can keep telling this lie till you are blue in the face. Doesn't make it true.

There is no 'direction'. There is 'what reproduces most effectively in the current environment?'. Humanity came along with our few hardwired instincts and teaching everything that could be then improved INSTEAD of hardwired everything, and now look at us. I'd call that an advantage.

Metherion

 

[Mallon]

Then, answer this: I guess you will give a reason that why human started to build house on flat land. But why didn't, for example, snow monkeys build an snow hut for themselves? By the way, I think polar bear knows how to do that.

Because they don't need to. Not all species are pressured by natural selection in the same way, juvie. Snow monkeys don't build nests because they get by fine without them. Likewise, we aren't pressured to swim, so we haven't evolved webbed fingers and toes.
You keep pushing this weird idea that natural selection mandates that all creatures live and behave the same way. I don't know where you get your ideas from, but they certainly don't stem from evolutionary theory.

 

[MattLangley]

In a lot of ways our -need- for a house makes is pretty primitive in comparison.

 

[Assyrian]

This is great. Thanks. I read:

The question is: If the description is true, then this type of gorilla should be really, really stupid and is not better than other non-nesting apes. For millions of years (?), may be hundreds of millions of this type of nest had been built. It simply amazed to me that the structure of the nest never change.

Do we know how long gorillas have been building nests? But even if they have been building the same kind of nests millions of years, why should they change? The nests work, they are easy to make if you know how, and they are fresh every night. Why change?

As for stupid, as a creationist do you think all the animals God created are really stupid because they can't build houses and cars?

In comparison, we can see how did the structure, style and size of human house change so rapidly.

What went wrong during the ape to human evolution?

Why do you think something went wrong? Do you think evolution means gorillas have to increase their cranial capacity and intelligence like we did so they can build more complicated houses? Where does evolution say that will happen?