What level of hard is it to achieve Salvation?

on a scale of 1 to ten, with 10 being nearly impossible, what level of difficulty is expected of us

  • 1

    Votes: 17 70.8%
  • 2

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • 7

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 8

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • 9

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 10

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Total voters
    24

Frosty Cook

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Your scripture is not a salvation scripture but a scripture that teaches how christians should live. The OP is referring to how easy or difficult it is to be saved.

God bless
The point that the scriptures make is that it is not mankind's actions (works) that saves them eternally, but that they are saved eternally by God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind.

The "easy or difficult" for mankind does not even enter the picture.
 
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Danthemailman

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Faith in Yeshua Hamashiach means trust, belief, and practice of the full gospel.
Faith in Jesus means believe, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. What exactly do you mean by full gospel? Usually people who stress “full” gospel end up “adding” works to the gospel.
 
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Love First

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Faith in Jesus means believe, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. What exactly do you mean by full gospel? Usually people who stress “full” gospel end up “adding” works to the gospel.

By full gospel I mean exactly what I said. Yes I believe that works are required for salvation the dead branches will be burned in the fire.
 
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Danthemailman

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By full gospel I mean exactly what I said. Yes I believe that works are required for salvation the dead branches will be burned in the fire.
Works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
 
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Love First

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Works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

Well to get into this conversation would be a rather lengthy discussion and at this time I’m too busy for that but I do highly recommend that you rethink your stance as the unprofitable servants will be cast out where there is weeping and gnashing.
 
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Danthemailman

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Well to get into this conversation would be a rather lengthy discussion and at this time I’m too busy for that but I do highly recommend that you rethink your stance as the unprofitable servants will be cast out where there is weeping and gnashing.
In regards to the parable of the unprofitable servant in Matthew 25, the talents represent monetary value and are distibuted according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground. (vs. 25) The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but chose to reject it.

Also, the fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "slothful" and an "unprofitable servant" (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This wicked, lazy servant does not represent a genuine believer as it's obvious that he had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness.

The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved. *The children of Israel/Israelites were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved:

Isaiah 43:10 - "You are My witnesses, says the Lord," And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

*Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me, they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Yet God later destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:5)

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned
 
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Love First

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In regards to the parable of the unprofitable servant in Matthew 25, the talents represent monetary value and are distibuted according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground. (vs. 25) The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but chose to reject it.

Also, the fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "slothful" and an "unprofitable servant" (Matthew 25:30) who is cast out into outer darkness indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This wicked, lazy servant does not represent a genuine believer as it's obvious that he had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness.

The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved. *The children of Israel/Israelites were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved:

Isaiah 43:10 - "You are My witnesses, says the Lord," And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

*Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me, they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Yet God later destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:5)

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned

Those who have done good receive eternal life and those who have done evil receive damnation.

John 5:28-29
 
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Danthemailman

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Those who have done good receive eternal life and those who have done evil receive damnation.

John 5:28-29
We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis or means by which they obtained eternal life, but is the fruit of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart. A good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. You shall know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:17-20)

Doing good flows from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows from a heart that is unsaved. *Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already.. So believers are "described" as "those who have done good" and unbelievers are "described" as those "who have done evil."
 
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zoidar

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We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis or means by which they obtained eternal life, but is the fruit of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart. A good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. You shall know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:17-20)

Doing good flows from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows from a heart that is unsaved. *Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already.. So believers are "described" as "those who have done good" and unbelievers are "described" as those "who have done evil."

What you share is comforting when you feel like a mess, like I do today.
 
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Christopher0121

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I believe God's grace is sufficient. We all struggle with sin. And if we confess our sins, or sinfulness, He is faithful and just to forgive us. We have an advocate with the Father, pleading our cause, the man Christ Jesus. If we remain humble and saddened by our sin He knows the thoughts and intentions of our hearts.

What are we commanded to do to be saved? In my understanding we are to repent, be water baptized, and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, let me say this... God will save whomever He desires, even if they aren't baptized. God is merciful. I'm simply saying that I believe that if one repents, is water baptized, and filled with the Spirit one can be assured they are born again. Again, this is my understanding.

Once saved, what must we do? Again... this is my understanding. And this is going to shock many. It's going to be extremely difficult, so brace yourself. You're almost going to wish you chose a different faith. Are you ready? Here's what we must do...

1.) Love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.
2.) And demonstrate our love for God by... loving others as Christ loves us.

Notice, I didn't throw out a dress code. I didn't throw out a calendar to observe. I didn't throw out a dietary requirement. I didn't throw out a long list of do's and don'ts. Why? Because if you truly love others... you'll abstain from sin. You won't lie to someone you love. You won't kill or harm someone you love. You won't use and exploit someone you love. You won't steal from someone you love. You won't curse at someone you love. You won't be jealous and covetous about the lives of those you love. The secret is actually rather simple... love. Genuine love. All sin can be traced back to a failure to love God and love others. If you're stealing from someone, you don't love them enough. If you're unfaithful to a spouse, your love for them is lacking. If you're neglecting prayer and worship, you're love for God is lacking. Pray that you be baptized with God's love and then pour that love out into your life and into the lives of those around you. I firmly believe that in the judgment, every thought, word, deed, and intention will be judged as to if it was... loving. Not religious. Not spiritual. Not in accordance to some tradition... but how does it measure up to the command to love God and our fellow man.

You can live above sin by living a life of love.

When we fail to love and cater to the flesh and the carnal mind... we sin.

Our sin can do many things. It most assuredly robs us of joy and peace, because we are not walking in the fullness of the new nature imparted to us through the Holy Spirit. And so, one's life might be marked with a lack of joy, depression, anxiety, a short temper, nightmares, a sense of not pleasing your Heavenly Father, and so there is insecurity and an uneasiness that troubles us. We also find ourselves not living an authentic life as we try to hide our sin and act like someone we're not. These things not only effect our spiritual health, but our mental and even physical health. It is good for us spiritually, mentally, and physically to abstain from sin.

Now, are you lost as you grapple and come to grips with sin? No. You're a child in need of direction, love, and discipline. But you are not cast out like garbage. He DIED for you. God is full of mercy and grace. Mercy is not receiving what you deserve. Grace is receiving what you did not earn. To the one struggling with sin and suffering over their own behavior, do not fear God. He isn't going to dish out the Hell you deserve, He's going to continue calling you "son" and "daughter" through grace, what you don't deserve. Why? Because His love will win. Just accept His love and step away from the sin. It's hurting you. It's damaging you. It's damaging your life. You deserve to have joy, peace, and assurance. Cease the sin you struggle with by discovering where your love is lacking and work on that. An unfaithful spouse might struggle with guilt, shame, and remorse while in sin. But... upon learning to love their spouse more... they will be able to repent and cease that sin of unfaithfulness. Learn to LOVE.

Can sin cost us our soul?

Yes.

If we fail to address our sin and lack of love, our hearts grow hardened. We become desensitized to the pain and shame. We adapt and accommodate the sin. We begin to love the sin. Like an idol. Sin is always idolatry. Now we are in a territory called rebellion. Here we loose the ability to hear God's voice. And God often sends corrective judgments to wake us up and get us to turn to Him. This isn't out of anger or hatred towards you, but anger over what the sin is doing to you and you're allowing it. It's like the love of a parent, furious with the drug that is destroying their child and upset with their child's unwillingness to seek help and be set free.

Having said that... there comes a point in which one's hart becomes so hardened, so given over to sin, that they can no longer hear from God even if God's corrective judgments or confrontations come. Soon, one begins to lose their faith altogether. Soon, the things of God are trivial to them. And here they cross the line and God gives them over to their desires... and they become reprobate. Lost.

Worried or troubled that you have sinned and gone too far??? THAT'S WONDERFUL!!!! That means you've not gone too far! You're feeling convicted still. You're new nature is still alive and well in you clashing with your behavior. In fact, you're just a confession away from feeling the peace of God's grace. And time remains to refocus and learn to love in a way that will cause you to cease the sin and harm you're causing.

Many might disagree with what I've written here. And that's okay. I'm still learning after being born again for over 30 years. But this is my experience and my understanding.

God bless.

Chris
 
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Neogaia777

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I believe God's grace is sufficient. We all struggle with sin. And if we confess our sins, or sinfulness, He is faithful and just to forgive us. We have an advocate with the Father, pleading our cause, the man Christ Jesus. If we remain humble and saddened by our sin He knows the thoughts and intentions of our hearts.

What are we commanded to do to be saved? In my understanding we are to repent, be water baptized, and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, let me say this... God will save whomever He desires, even if they aren't baptized. God is merciful. I'm simply saying that I believe that if one repents, is water baptized, and filled with the Spirit one can be assured they are born again. Again, this is my understanding.

Once saved, what must we do? Again... this is my understanding. And this is going to shock many. It's going to be extremely difficult, so brace yourself. You're almost going to wish you chose a different faith. Are you ready? Here's what we must do...

1.) Love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.
2.) And demonstrate our love for God by... loving others as Christ loves us.

Notice, I didn't throw out a dress code. I didn't throw out a calendar to observe. I didn't throw out a dietary requirement. I didn't throw out a long list of do's and don'ts. Why? Because if you truly love others... you'll abstain from sin. You won't lie to someone you love. You won't kill or harm someone you love. You won't use and exploit someone you love. You won't steal from someone you love. You won't curse at someone you love. You won't be jealous and covetous about the lives of those you love. The secret is actually rather simple... love. Genuine love. All sin can be traced back to a failure to love God and love others. If you're stealing from someone, you don't love them enough. If you're unfaithful to a spouse, your love for them is lacking. If you're neglecting prayer and worship, you're love for God is lacking. Pray that you be baptized with God's love and then pour that love out into your life and into the lives of those around you. I firmly believe that in the judgment, every thought, word, deed, and intention will be judged as to if it was... loving. Not religious. Not spiritual. Not in accordance to some tradition... but how does it measure up to the command to love God and our fellow man.

You can live above sin by living a life of love.

When we fail to love and cater to the flesh and the carnal mind... we sin.

Our sin can do many things. It most assuredly robs us of joy and peace, because we are not walking in the fullness of the new nature imparted to us through the Holy Spirit. And so, one's life might be marked with a lack of joy, depression, anxiety, a short temper, nightmares, a sense of not pleasing your Heavenly Father, and so there is insecurity and an uneasiness that troubles us. We also find ourselves not living an authentic life as we try to hide our sin and act like someone we're not. These things not only effect our spiritual health, but our mental and even physical health. It is good for us spiritually, mentally, and physically to abstain from sin.

Now, are you lost as you grapple and come to grips with sin? No. You're a child in need of direction, love, and discipline. But you are not cast out like garbage. He DIED for you. God is full of mercy and grace. Mercy is not receiving what you deserve. Grace is receiving what you did not earn. To the one struggling with sin and suffering over their own behavior, do not fear God. He isn't going to dish out the Hell you deserve, He's going to continue calling you "son" and "daughter" through grace, what you don't deserve. Why? Because His love will win. Just accept His love and step away from the sin. It's hurting you. It's damaging you. It's damaging your life. You deserve to have joy, peace, and assurance. Cease the sin you struggle with by discovering where your love is lacking and work on that. An unfaithful spouse might struggle with guilt, shame, and remorse while in sin. But... upon learning to love their spouse more... they will be able to repent and cease that sin of unfaithfulness. Learn to LOVE.

Can sin cost us our soul?

Yes.

If we fail to address our sin and lack of love, our hearts grow hardened. We become desensitized to the pain and shame. We adapt and accommodate the sin. We begin to love the sin. Like an idol. Sin is always idolatry. Now we are in a territory called rebellion. Here we loose the ability to hear God's voice. And God often sends corrective judgments to wake us up and get us to turn to Him. This isn't out of anger or hatred towards you, but anger over what the sin is doing to you and you're allowing it. It's like the love of a parent, furious with the drug that is destroying their child and upset with their child's unwillingness to seek help and be set free.

Having said that... there comes a point in which one's hart becomes so hardened, so given over to sin, that they can no longer hear from God even if God's corrective judgments or confrontations come. Soon, one begins to lose their faith altogether. Soon, the things of God are trivial to them. And here they cross the line and God gives them over to their desires... and they become reprobate. Lost.

Worried or troubled that you have sinned and gone too far??? THAT'S WONDERFUL!!!! That means you've not gone too far! You're feeling convicted still. You're new nature is still alive and well in you clashing with your behavior. In fact, you're just a confession away from feeling the peace of God's grace. And time remains to refocus and learn to love in a way that will cause you to cease the sin and harm you're causing.

Many might disagree with what I've written here. And that's okay. I'm still learning after being born again for over 30 years. But this is my experience and my understanding.

God bless.

Chris
I think this is a very good post...

And I also think that it's also very important to note, that if you still care a lot or a very great deal about these kinds of things still, and still think about it/them a lot still, when there are just so very many others in this world that just "do not"; and maybe "do not a lot maybe at all anymore still", etc, then I think that is a "very good thing/sign", etc, and maybe shows how you maybe are still very very much more different from the way the rest of them maybe still are still, etc...

And I think that is a very good thing/sign still, etc...

Anyway, good post, I felt like I was maybe reminded of a few things I maybe needed to be reminded of from it, and that is a very good thing, etc...

God Bless!
 
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A_Thinker

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IMO, and this does not come from the Bible, but from a conscience in communication with the H.S., God knows our burdens vary, and that some people are more susceptible to sin, due to how they are raised or the environment in which they live, and so God weighs these burdens on his own scale, one that we cannot comprehend because we are simple minded, and God is complex beyond all complexities.

So the burden, IMO, would be the same, for us similar minded people, because the actual difficulties vary.
Yes ... we are all different children, each with our own gifts AND struggles ...
 
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A_Thinker

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Very simple.
God's best gift to us demands our best efforts.
What that "best" is varries from person to person, but God sees and knows what the cost is for everyone.
Take the case of Peter walking on the water:
Jesus knew that it was impossible for him to do what was asked. All that was required was for Peter do his best, and Jesus would do the rest.
And yet, Peter's faith faltered ... both on the sea ... and in the passion ... but, in both instances, Jesus made up for Peter's lack of faith ....
 
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A_Thinker

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I guess this was simple for non-Catholics, but for Catholics, like me, it wasn't something I was ever taught (that I know of), or something I read (that I know of)... For a Catholic, this is a *REVOLUTIONARY* concept, because for us, unconfessed sin equals damnation equally to everyone.
Then ... confess your sin ...
 
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A_Thinker

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Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
 
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Frosty Cook

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By full gospel I mean exactly what I said. Yes I believe that works are required for salvation the dead branches will be burned in the fire.
The scriptures do teach that there is a deliverance (salvation) obtained, by the born again child of God, by their good works, but it is not eternal deliverance. It is a deliverance that the child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth.
 
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