what Law did Jesus replace?

[Galatians 2:21]

People are still sinning so how can he have died for your future sins.
People who have excepted Jesus will not sin wilfully once they come to the knowledge of the God's word

lets read about what sins Jesus died for

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paul also said

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

who is the sacrifce in Paul day and ours?

so if we sin wilfully after we know the truth, what have we done to Jesus sacrifce?

is this false? you read it!

keep note that this is after Jesus death and resurrection, LONG AFTER!


we can sin wilfully even after Jesus has died for our sins?

I looked at the Greek language behind Hebrews 10:26, and I discovered deeper meaning that wasn't obvious.

Most of the time when we sin, our mind is out of the loop, and God is not really on our minds. This verse means that someone would have to be in full consciousness (understands full meaning) of the gospel at the time of the temptation, for it to be a deliberate sin. The sinful nature is usually the culpret to our sin, because our spirit cannot always be in control of it, but sinning deliberately would mean that our spirit is the one deciding to sin, which is directly walking away from God. One who has tasted the Holy Spirit and true love of God will never deliberately sin because they understand how worthless sin is.

And I think you took Romans 3:25 way out of context. The verse doesn't even mean what you think it means. The verse isn't talking about what sins Jesus died for, its talking about how fair God is to not judge us until we have had the chance to accept Christ. Another version of the same verse says it this way "God showed that Christ is the throne of mercy where God's approval is given through faith in Christ's blood. In his patience God waited to deal with sins committed in the past."

 

[gideon army]

No that is completely false. Jesus died for ALL sin, which means past, present, and future.

If you believe Christian's don't sin, you are greatly mistaken. Even Paul says in Romans 7 "For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?"

Agree with you wholeheartedly Galatians Well said, However believe you'll agreed that there's many whom were present during Jesus time decendents are still around advocating of Laws

We can be accused to making 'LIGHT' of Sins (in Hebrew, making Light is Cursing ) for we make MUCh of Christ & HIS FINISHED works hence these ppl would never reign in Life for it's Written:-

Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide [is] the gate and broad [is] the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

Doubt they'll notice Paul asks 'WHO' will deliver him & not WHAT must he do which these ppl will never know

Then again what happen in the 1st Garden is happening all over again for these ppl loves to partake from the Tree of KNowledge of GOOD & Evil, as for most Christians in this world, they & me are now partaking from the Tree of Life in Christ

Guess they are too Blind to see the connection & keeness to boast of their self works rather than HIS Finished works

 

[Galatians 2:21]

Well said gideon army. I'm not sure what you mean by "light on sin" though. Because I believe wholeheartedly that sin is a very serious matter that should not be compromised with, and at the same time, feeling shame and guilt as a result of sinning shows that we were taking pride in ourselves for not sinning, which means we were being legalistic and controlled by the Law. Applying grace and letting God use your body as a vessel of doing His will is what he asks of us. Nothing you said was wrong gideon army! I was just adding to it

 

[Light hearted]

I agree with you on this LH, yet they will build a temple.



why do you think I misinterpreted? maybe its you.

Yes Jesus sacrifice far exceeds a animal sacrifice. YOU ARE RIGHT!

Jesus sacrifce replaced animal sacrifce.






also for us christians if we keep sinning after Jesus came and died for our past sins we trample his sacrifice for us underfoot.

what do you think?

Sure, they can build all the temples they want, but if it isn't God approved, it will once again be "works" not "faith" that they will try to get to Heaven.

If you say Jesus sacrifice far exceeds the sacrifice of an animal, then why would you find the building of a new temple a concern. Until Isread actually lets go of themselves and allows God to build a Holy Temple within each of them, their work is for nothing.

If you truely believe that if we sin again after we accept Jesus Christ as our savior we are kept from eternal life, each and every human is doomed. The only way I can see anyone getting to Heavin in your view is within seconds before we die, we accept Jesus as our savior.

But in your view, I'm close to death, I accept Jesus, my heart stops, inside I yell ... Great, I made it I couldn't sin before death. Then, the doctor puts the shock treatment to my heart and brings me back to life again, I awaken, I figure I'll see Jesus and all his Glory. Then reality hits, I'm still on earth. Damn, I say, I didn't make it. OOOOPS, I just swore, forget it, there goes my chance to heaven, I just swore.

After accepting Jesus as your savior, as God finds your prayer and you are true to repentance, ect. you will be indwelled with the Holy Spirit. He is not only your guarantee to Heaven, he is your counsler. Jesus says that He,the Holy Spirit, will convict you and let you know your faults as you go through the rest of your life. It is a learning process. It doesn't say he will leave you at your first sin.

 

[Light hearted]

Galatians 2:21, gideon army did say that "We can be accused of making "LIGHT" of sins". It doesn't say that gideon army is making light of sins, it is his accusers saying that.

I just wanted to clarify this quote, and say thanks to both of you for joining the discussion, your words have been a great blessing.

I'm going to turn this conversation to a different angle. Please follow, I hope I explain correctly.

Ozell keeps on this replacement of law thing.

Here goes. An actual law has a two fold situation I break the law, then comes the penalty. If I steal from someone (human) I have to pay back the property, and perhaps jailtime.

If I commit adultry, (human) I can't give back the adultry, yet there will be harsh punishment.

I could go on but you understand, a law has been set, you break it, then there is the punishment, of disaplinary action against you.

Is the punishment considered a law? or is it considered a consiquence or a payback for breaking a law.

Can you break a punishment? I suppose, but then there has to be more punishment. But, there has to be a law that says you broke the punishment, which in turn you broke another law, which then ushers in new punishment.

When you sin, break a God law, against God, Is there punishment, absolutly, death. So one back in the time of law, would bring a sacrifice of an animal to pay for the sin, break a God law, against God.



Question....Ozell has had us chasing the idea of "what law did Jesus replace?". Seems to me Jesus replaced no "Law" he replaced the punishment with his "Sacifice".

Is it proper to even consider what Jesus did to "Replacement of a Law?" Or should the title be "What sacrifice procedure did Jesus replace"?

I stop in my tracks to simply say Jesus replaced a cow, my conscience just wont go there, what an insult to the Son of God.

When Jesus sacrifice tore the veil between man and God, when Jesus brought abundance of Grace, when Jesus eliminated the need for a human high priest, once again, I could go on and on. His one sacrifice did far more than "replace a law".

 

[Zeena]

Now, which is which?

who was the God who gave Israel and the MIXED MULTITUDE the commandments?

The same God who gave the Gentiles His commandment:

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

lets read who Paul say it is.

1Cor 10v1: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2: And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3: And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4: And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5: But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

It was Jesus who was with them in the wilderness even on mount SInai when he gave the commandments.

Was it not THEM who were destroyed!?!

Acts 15:10-11
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Jesus said this below in the OT.

Moses said that. Where is it written that this is Jesus speaking?

Deut 8:1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
3: And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know;that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Matthew 5

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mathew 12:5-7
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Here, Jesus gave us HIS Law, written on our hearts by the Pen of our God, through His Spirit under the NEW Covenant.

it is the commandments and the word of God that we live by.

Romans 3:19-26
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

when Jesus came in the flesh in the NT he said

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Lk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

what is the law of the spirit of Life in Jesus Paul speaks of?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

the commandments and every word that proceeds out of his mouth,

lets read John

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

what did John say the words of Jesus is?

spirit and life

You mean, let's read a verse of John shorn of it's context?

And the Words which Jesus spoke are these;

John 6:32-33 & 47-59
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

 

[Galatians 2:21]

Yea, Jesus said he didn't come to replace the law, but to fulfill it. The law is still around, but the punishment of spiritual death is taken care of by Christ. After experiencing the love of God, one wishes to do the will of God, because going against the will of God (aka sinning) separates us from God and also lessens the potential of God's will that could be accomplished through us.

Animal sacrifice is obserd, because "But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Hebrews 10:3-4. And even more importantly, choosing to sacrifice and animal instead of accepting Christ's death is basically saying that Christ's death wasn't good enough for you. GOD in the FLESH dying the most BRUTAL and most HUMILIATING death for your sins, even though he knew most people would not accept His gift? That's not good enough for you? Is there not a more LOVING act that can happen?

 

[NatalieJan777]

People don't like to teach grace because they are afraid people will go back to the old way of living, which won't happen if they really understand the power of God's love. When one experiences the transforming power of God's love, their eyes will be opened to how worthless and pointless sin is, and will choose not to do it, and will choose to do God's will.

And what of those who are not genuine in Christ Jesus? Are we not then teaching falsehoods that it is okay to continue in sin?

If at any point a Christian feels guilty for sinning, then they are letting the Law control them, and they are not living under grace. When you let the Law control you, then you are basing God's work on fear of damnation. "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18. So when you take out the Law, and apply only grace, you will experience love so powerful that we no longer desire sin. "They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity--for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him." 2 Peter 2:19. If you love God because of all he has done for you (grace), you will be a slave to Him, and it will bring you joy to follow His will.

One last thing:
If you feel shame from sin, it is a result of the pride from doing God's will being broken down. If you feel pride, it means you subconsciously think you can do it on your own. But there is no "you" anymore, "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20. The only "you" that is left is your sinful nature.

I disagree, I believe that the feeling's of guilt (shame) are from the Holy Spirit that leads us to acknowledge our sin. Without this acknowledgement we would continue in that sin. If we go along in our walk and refuse to admit our guilt and be ashamed of what we've done we will never turn away from it and repent. (Habakkuk 2:16) It is all a process of refinement, which is done in us who have Faith in Christ Jesus through the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are being made perfect in HIM, not made perfect upon accepting HIM. We will not be made fully perfect until HIS return.

 

[Galatians 2:21]

And what of those who are not genuine in Christ Jesus? Are we not then teaching falsehoods that it is okay to continue in sin?

People are going to continue in sin if they are not genuine in Jesus Christ, whether they are taught grace or the law, or a combination of the two. But if someone is taught grace, and they come to believe, then their walk will be so much more devoted towards the will of God. If someone is taught the law, they will be consumed by the fear of disobeying God. Only when we realize that God will love us and have mercy on us even if we continue in sin, do we realize the power of God's love (which will reveal the emptiness and pointlessness of sin). It seems everything Jesus taught was counter intuitive, and this concept of only grace is the same way.

I disagree, I believe that the feeling's of guilt (shame) are from the Holy Spirit that leads us to acknowledge our sin. Without this acknowledgement we would continue in that sin. If we go along in our walk and refuse to admit our guilt and be ashamed of what we've done we will never turn away from it and repent. (Habakkuk 2:16) It is all a process of refinement, which is done in us who have Faith in Christ Jesus through the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are being made perfect in HIM, not made perfect upon accepting HIM. We will not be made perfect until HIS return.

I did say "shame" not "guilt" which are very different even though one leads to the other. We feel guilt when do sin because, like you said, the Holy Spirit reacts strongly to our sin. Guilt is knowing that you did something wrong, shame is the reaction one gets when knowing you did something wrong. Shame is when you feel rejected and your self esteem is broken down, such as if you feel bad about yourself or feel like you can't be relied on by God to do His will, then that is when you should be aware of your pride. I realize now that shame and guilt are used interchangebly (which shouldn't happen), and I should have been more clear on what I meant, so for that I am sorry.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Personally, I was taught grace (since it was just me and Jesus for a long time) before the law. It was only until I was firm in HIS GRACE that I was able to fully acknowledge the Law as it was initially intended. I think this is why I am able to see both Grace and Law working in the body of Christ Jesus. I personally do not believe that one can exist without the other.

I am just cautious about teachings on only Grace without the law because to me it is like baptism by water and the sinners prayer, it leaves the lost still lost because they do not truly accept Christ Jesus but believe that they have.

I will not lie, I do not like thinking that something different could have been done to draw them closer to GOD.

Isaiah 8:16 Psalms 19:7

 

[Galatians 2:21]

Yea, I was mostly taught the law, and it led to cycles of following the law, then failure, and it led me down a chasm of choosing to not follow God anymore because I knew I was just going to keep failing. It hurt to keep rededicating to God, then keep letting Him down, so I figured emerging into darkness was the solvent.

I feel like a lot of other people also walk away when taught the Law, which is why I am SO adamant about teaching people to build their relationship with God based on grace. God is a merciful God, and faith in that is what brings us salvation.

Thanks for having this discussion with me.

 

[ozell]

Yea, I was mostly taught the law, and it led to cycles of following the law, then failure, and it led me down a chasm of choosing to not follow God anymore because I knew I was just going to keep failing. It hurt to keep rededicating to God, then keep letting Him down, so I figured emerging into darkness was the solvent.

I feel like a lot of other people also walk away when taught the Law, which is why I am SO adamant about teaching people to build their relationship with God based on grace. God is a merciful God, and faith in that is what brings us salvation.

Thanks for having this discussion with me.

so you are saying when you kept the law you let God and yourself down?

lets examine how ridicules this sounds

1: And God spake all these words, saying,
2: I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

you are saying that you let God down when you kept your God only HIM!

6: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

you let God down when you never took his name in vain?

do you under stand that Jesus is long suffering and merciful do you know what this mean of God?

8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

if one keep the sabbath day as the Lord commanded, How does that let the Lord and yourself down?

It does not!

why? like all his commands and his words we are told to live by them!

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

how is this failure? Jesus words failure? God forbid!

12: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

how can honouring your parents = failure?

13: Thou shalt not kill.

how many of us here has killed a person?

14: Thou shalt not commit adultery.

surely you can keep your hands only on your spouse.

15: Thou shalt not steal.

we all have stolen something a time in our lives, yet the Lord left a way out.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

we lie time to time, this is how we mostly fall short, yet we ask for forgiveness and try harder to stop our short falls.

16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

surely we can not covet and trust in the Lord and ask the Lord to give us our own!

17: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

when it comes to making money we give all effort, when it comes to raising our children we teach them they can do anything, when it comes to working a job and striving for a pay raise or prominent position we go all out for success, yet when it comes to the commandments of God

we can't

I don't by that.

why would God give you something that you can't keep?

how hard is it to not steal, not kill, not lie,

how hard is it to only have JESUS as your God.

I guess this is hard.

find a better excuse.

read this from Solomon

Prov 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

 

[ozell]

Galatians 2:21;54036033]I looked at the Greek language behind Hebrews 10:26, and I discovered deeper meaning that wasn't obvious.

I read Good ole English,God put his word in English for the english speaking people to read. Deeper knowledge comes from Jesus not Greek.
Paul taught the Greeks, The Greeks did not teach Israel!!!

Most of the time when we sin, our mind is out of the loop, and God is not really on our minds. This verse means that someone would have to be in full consciousness (understands full meaning) of the gospel at the time of the temptation, for it to be a deliberate sin.

if this be the case then that person must learn how to live and walk in the spirit

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

what spirit? let's read

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.


Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The sinful nature is usually the culpret to our sin, because our spirit cannot always be in control of it,

we sin because of our lust this to is written by Paul and James

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Jms 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

this flesh wants everything, women, men, cars, jewelry, money, what makes it wrong is when it belongs to others and we go out our way to take theirs.

but sinning deliberately would mean that our spirit is the one deciding to sin, which is directly walking away from God

we are told not to continue in sin.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

we are told to flee/run from sin.

2Tm 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

. One who has tasted the Holy Spirit and true love of God will never deliberately sin because they understand how worthless sin is.

yet, you acknowledge that we can sin even after Jesus death and resurrection. you acknowledge that sin is still here and because sin is still here the commandments have to be still in effect.
The commandments are not done away with.

And I think you took Romans 3:25 way out of context. The verse doesn't even mean what you think it means. The verse isn't talking about what sins Jesus died for, its talking about how fair God is to not judge us until we have had the chance to accept Christ. Another version of the same verse says it this way "God showed that Christ is the throne of mercy where God's approval is given through faith in Christ's blood. In his patience God waited to deal with sins committed in the past.

thank you for what YOU THINK. what you think will not get me or anyone into God's kingdom

lets read it again

25: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

whose remission of sin that are past suppose do the blood of Jesus remit?

what do remission of sin that are past suppose to mean?

when you accept Jesus and come under his blood, is the sin of your past remitted? is the sin of your presence remitted?, or is the sin of your future remitted?

How do this apply to this statement by John?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

according to your understanding Jesus died for all sin past, presence and future.

yet John said after Jesus has died and rose that if we sin we have a advocate, which is the same Jesus who supposedly took away all our sins.

this don't add up?

 

[ozell]

Light hearted;54037687]Sure, they can build all the temples they want, but if it isn't God approved, it will once again be "works" not "faith" that they will try to get to Heaven.

it is in the bible for them to build it, so it is approved by God.

If you say Jesus sacrifice far exceeds the sacrifice of an animal, then why would you find the building of a new temple a concern. Until Isread actually lets go of themselves and allows God to build a Holy Temple within each of them, their work is for nothing.

it is written for them to build it and the Lord said this

Mt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

and this

Rv 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

If you truely believe that if we sin again after we accept Jesus Christ as our savior we are kept from eternal life, each and every human is doomed. The only way I can see anyone getting to Heavin in your view is within seconds before we die, we accept Jesus as our savior.

we are not doomed the Lord said

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

and he said

Prov 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

and this

Ezek 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

But in your view, I'm close to death, I accept Jesus, my heart stops, inside I yell ... Great, I made it I couldn't sin before death. Then, the doctor puts the shock treatment to my heart and brings me back to life again, I awaken, I figure I'll see Jesus and all his Glory. Then reality hits, I'm still on earth. Damn, I say, I didn't make it. OOOOPS, I just swore, forget it, there goes my chance to heaven, I just swore.

is damn a sin?

what is the bible definition of sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

your chance rest in your own hands. if a person is close to death and repent before he dies, whose hands hands has he put his salvation in?
Jesus! if he died knowing that he has fought fight and done his BEST for the Lord then what is is fate.

Paul sound confident when he said

2Tm 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing

After accepting Jesus as your savior, as God finds your prayer and you are true to repentance, ect. you will be indwelled with the Holy Spirit. He is not only your guarantee to Heaven, he is your counsler. Jesus says that He,the Holy Spirit, will convict you and let you know your faults as you go through the rest of your life. It is a learning process. It doesn't say he will leave you at your first sin.

read what I post and quit adding none sense, who said that Jesus will leave you at your first sin?

Impossible!

Jesus said

Mt 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

now after you have received the knowledge of the truth, meaning you UNDERSTAND God's word, it says

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

what is a willful sin?

so if I commit adultery on my wife knowing that it is a sin, and continue to do so, because I continue to do so and I know the truth that it is wrong

should God forgive me?

 

[ozell]

Galatians 2:21, gideon army did say that "We can be accused of making "LIGHT" of sins". It doesn't say that gideon army is making light of sins, it is his accusers saying that.

I just wanted to clarify this quote, and say thanks to both of you for joining the discussion, your words have been a great blessing.

I'm going to turn this conversation to a different angle. Please follow, I hope I explain correctly.

Ozell keeps on this replacement of law thing.

Here goes. An actual law has a two fold situation I break the law, then comes the penalty. If I steal from someone (human) I have to pay back the property, and perhaps jailtime.

If I commit adultry, (human) I can't give back the adultry, yet there will be harsh punishment.

I could go on but you understand, a law has been set, you break it, then there is the punishment, of disaplinary action against you.

Is the punishment considered a law? or is it considered a consiquence or a payback for breaking a law.

Can you break a punishment? I suppose, but then there has to be more punishment. But, there has to be a law that says you broke the punishment, which in turn you broke another law, which then ushers in new punishment.

When you sin, break a God law, against God, Is there punishment, absolutly, death. So one back in the time of law, would bring a sacrifice of an animal to pay for the sin, break a God law, against God.



Question....Ozell has had us chasing the idea of "what law did Jesus replace?". Seems to me Jesus replaced no "Law" he replaced the punishment with his "Sacifice".

Is it proper to even consider what Jesus did to "Replacement of a Law?" Or should the title be "What sacrifice procedure did Jesus replace"?

I stop in my tracks to simply say Jesus replaced a cow, my conscience just wont go there, what an insult to the Son of God.

When Jesus sacrifice tore the veil between man and God, when Jesus brought abundance of Grace, when Jesus eliminated the need for a human high priest, once again, I could go on and on. His one sacrifice did far more than "replace a law".

LH when Israel broke the law what did they have to do for repentance?

before we get to the punishment what did the people do for repentance?

the sacrifice animals!!!

what do we do when we break the laws of God?

we ask for forgiveness, to whom, Jesus, why because he has become our sacrifice!!!! He removed the law of sacrifice He did not remove the sin!

Now as far as the punishment.

PAY ATTENTION!

Jn 8
1: Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2: And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3: And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4: They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. CAUGHT IN THE ACT

5: Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? THE LAW


6: This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

the law of stoning (punishment) was REMOVED HERE, not on the cross

8: And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9: And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10: When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11: She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus told this woman to sin no more, is this possible?

what if you sin and you don't get caught by man?

Jesus is long suffering and merciful surely he sees, yet nothing happens.
when we sin. are we getting by or have we gotten away with the sin?

How can a person sin no more, yet the Lord told this woman to do the IMPOSSIBLE?

stoning was removed before the dying on the cross, not a the cross.

as far as you chasing the truth I will call it you should

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

a chaser of truth is he that diligently seek him

 

[NatalieJan777]

I came across one of my favorite Psalms last night and since it is short I will type it in here. I think what I've come to know is that even when we adhere to and follow all of what GOD says, that we will still all fall short of the Righteousness of GOD and this is where Grace picks up.

Psalms 19

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out unto all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,
which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavillion,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is hidden from its heat.

The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
The fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever.
The ordinances of the Lord are sure
and altogether righteous.
They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the comb.
By them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.

Who can discern his errors?
Forgive my hidden faults.
Keep your servant also from willful sins;
may they not rule over me.
Then will I be blameless,
innocent of great transgression.

May the words of my mouth and meditations of my heart
be pleasing in your sight.
O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.

When I read many Psalms of King David's I am always left with the same thoughts. No wonder he was a man after GOD's own heart.

Stay Blessed! In CHRIST JESUS.

 

[Galatians 2:21]

Wow ozell, you made quite a few accusations. Am I now your enemy for telling you the truth? You brought up the verse "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone." John 8:7. Sounds to me like you are "casting stones" at me for sinning, when you are surely in sin yourself.

I told you that when I tried to follow the law, and not by the grace of God, that I kept falling short... and I stand by what I said. When you try to follow the Law without the motive of the grace of God, it goes against your natural desire to sin, and the sin nature seems to take over.

Lets take a look at Romans 7, a time when Paul is struggling, years after becoming a Christian:
7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”b
8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.
9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Sounds like Paul went through the same thing I did. I tried following the Law, bet kept going back to sin because my sin nature was still in control. But when we DIE to our old self, and be crucified with Christ, then our spirit now has control over the sin nature. Not that we wont continue to sin, but that we will actually WANT to do what's right for no other reason than that it is the will of God.

 

[Galatians 2:21]

I read Good ole English,God put his word in English for the english speaking people to read. Deeper knowledge comes from Jesus not Greek.
Paul taught the Greeks, The Greeks did not teach Israel!!!

The original language that the New Testament was written in was Greek. If the Bible was written in English, there would only be one version. If one is to truly understand what the author is saying, there is nothing clearer than the original.

 

[Light hearted]

it is in the bible for them to build it, so it is approved by God.



it is written for them to build it and the Lord said this

Mt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

and this

Rv 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.




we are not doomed the Lord said

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

and he said

Prov 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

and this

Ezek 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.




is damn a sin?

what is the bible definition of sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

your chance rest in your own hands. if a person is close to death and repent before he dies, whose hands hands has he put his salvation in?
Jesus! if he died knowing that he has fought fight and done his BEST for the Lord then what is is fate.

Paul sound confident when he said

2Tm 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing




read what I post and quit adding none sense, who said that Jesus will leave you at your first sin?

Impossible!

Jesus said

Mt 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

now after you have received the knowledge of the truth, meaning you UNDERSTAND God's word, it says

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

what is a willful sin?

so if I commit adultery on my wife knowing that it is a sin, and continue to do so, because I continue to do so and I know the truth that it is wrong

should God forgive me?

I have to admit I wanted to use a stronger more vulger word than "damn". but we are on a public site and I didn't want to offend anyone. Please substitude a stronger word to make it where I sinned with a word.

Let's focus on the adultery topic since we are there already. As we all know, David was a man after God's heart. You know the story, he commited adultrey, of which produced a child. Now we can go further yet. He even schemed to kill the husband of the woman he commited adultrey with, and succeeded.

2 Samuel 12:13 Nathan replied "the Lord has taken away your sin". Now God did take the live of the son of which the adultery produced. Question...was the son's life taken as a sacrifice to cover the sin? If so, how much more is the life/ sacrifice of Jesus Christ to cover your sins?

We can go to the NT John 8. Even in the act of adultery, the Law said she is to die, death, stoned, on the spot, without question. This is the perfect example of Jeses and the mediator that he is between God and the believer. We all deserve death, thank God for Jesus who understands temptation and the pitfalls we encounter. Next question... The law clearly states she was to be stoned, Jesus interviened and changed the due process. Now, did Jesus "replece the Law", or did he alter the punishment?

Next.... 1 Cor 5. Even worse that your adultery scenerio listed above, this man is having sex with his step-mother, and he seems proud of it. Paul says to evict him from the church to endure embarrassment and ridicule in hopes to bring repentance and his Spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

Each situation required death, immediatly, according to the law, yet each situation did not bring immediate death.

Ozell, we are to love the sinner, hate the sin. Surely you can see from Moses to Jesus time there was a Grace factor that came to be. When reading the Bible I'm sure you see this.

So in your adultery question, I do not condem you, it is not for me to do. I would pray the Holy Spirit would work inside you til you realize you have put your sin before God.

 

[Light hearted]

LH when Israel broke the law what did they have to do for repentance?

before we get to the punishment what did the people do for repentance?

the sacrifice animals!!!

what do we do when we break the laws of God?

we ask for forgiveness, to whom, Jesus, why because he has become our sacrifice!!!! He removed the law of sacrifice He did not remove the sin!

Now as far as the punishment.

PAY ATTENTION!

Jn 8
1: Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2: And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3: And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4: They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. CAUGHT IN THE ACT

5: Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? THE LAW


6: This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

the law of stoning (punishment) was REMOVED HERE, not on the cross

8: And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9: And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10: When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11: She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus told this woman to sin no more, is this possible?

what if you sin and you don't get caught by man?

Jesus is long suffering and merciful surely he sees, yet nothing happens.
when we sin. are we getting by or have we gotten away with the sin?

How can a person sin no more, yet the Lord told this woman to do the IMPOSSIBLE?

stoning was removed before the dying on the cross, not a the cross.

as far as you chasing the truth I will call it you should

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

a chaser of truth is he that diligently seek him

Hmmm, I do like the analogy, just having Jesus by her side even before the cross he saved her.

Now of course, this was physical demonstration of what now happens to, and for us when Jesus is with us in Spirit. Even in our transgressions he is faithful to save.

It seems you are trying to make a big point about the replacement of the sacrifice law, I don't think anyone here has actually disputed the changing of the sacrifice procedure. I do know that where the animals had to be repeatadly done, Jesus sacrifice was once and done. Not that he wiped away the Laws/Commandments, but that he paid the price for breaking the Laws. He fulfilled them, once something is fulfilled, there is no more filling to be done.

Back to the Temple, there Temples being made everyday. Once again, the original Temples were a physical building that God's Spirit resided. Today those of us who are Born again are now God's Temple. God's Spirit now resides within us, we are God's temple.

I bring this up for if we turn to 2 Corinthians 4:18, for what is seen is "temporary", what is unseen is "Eternal".

Faith is believing in something unseen. 2 Cor. 5:7 we live by Faith not sight.

Your finding it proper for the animal sacrifice to return is an act of sight, not Faith, righeousness comes from Faith.