I thought it was that Jesus said that the old ways are done with and that the Gospel replaced traditions and sacrifice and the notion that there was a way to make ammends with God for our transgressions.
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what Law did Jesus replace?
- Thread starter ozell
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Zeena
..called to BE a Saint
I'm very busy today ozell,
please read this while you wait;
THE LAW OF CHRIST
I find it expresses my view of the Law of Christ most succinctly.
please read this while you wait;
THE LAW OF CHRIST
I find it expresses my view of the Law of Christ most succinctly.
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I thought it was that Jesus said that the old ways are done with and that the Gospel replaced traditions and sacrifice and the notion that there was a way to make ammends with God for our transgressions.
Brother Bear
answer me this if Jesus said what you said what gospel was he talking about seeing there was no New Testament written when he walked the earth in his flesh form?
what old ways are done away with
stealing
killing
lying
sacrifice
God's holy days
what traditions of Jesus is done way with?
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Galatians 2:21
Saved by Grace
ozell,
The law to which Jesus is talking about refers to ANY rule set by God for man to follow. When Jesus came, he wanted to prove to the Jews that following the law to the expectations of God is HOPELESS, and unachievable, because the expectation of God is to be completely perfect. The Jews had a hard enough time following the law, but Jesus added more to it "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:17-18. Also in Galatians 3, Paul discusses the purpose of the law: "Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." Galatians 3:23-25. In other words, the law is there to show us we can't do it on our own, that we need God's grace in order to be saved, which is how the law points us to Christ. Another purpose of the law, which is similar, is discussed in Romans: "What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." Romans 7:7. So another reason for the law is to show us that we are sinful. Because of our sinful nature, we were going to sin with or without the existance of the law, but the law clarifies what is sin so that we may know.
In essence, when Jesus and the apostles say that the law is done with, they do not mean that we should stop following it; they mean that it no longer controls us. They are saying that the law should no longer be a basis of being accepted by God, and that faith in the gospel is the only thing taken into consideration for salvation.
The law to which Jesus is talking about refers to ANY rule set by God for man to follow. When Jesus came, he wanted to prove to the Jews that following the law to the expectations of God is HOPELESS, and unachievable, because the expectation of God is to be completely perfect. The Jews had a hard enough time following the law, but Jesus added more to it "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:17-18. Also in Galatians 3, Paul discusses the purpose of the law: "Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." Galatians 3:23-25. In other words, the law is there to show us we can't do it on our own, that we need God's grace in order to be saved, which is how the law points us to Christ. Another purpose of the law, which is similar, is discussed in Romans: "What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." Romans 7:7. So another reason for the law is to show us that we are sinful. Because of our sinful nature, we were going to sin with or without the existance of the law, but the law clarifies what is sin so that we may know.
In essence, when Jesus and the apostles say that the law is done with, they do not mean that we should stop following it; they mean that it no longer controls us. They are saying that the law should no longer be a basis of being accepted by God, and that faith in the gospel is the only thing taken into consideration for salvation.
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gideon army
Am the Righteousness to GOD IN Christ by Faith
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NatalieJan777
Humbled before GOD
I believe what HE brings to us which the law of sin and death could never do is a cleansing from a guilty conscience. We all sin when we go against the law, this is known as sinfull nature. What we now have in CHRIST JESUS is the ability to acknowledge this sin on a deeper level and through HIM (with HIS help) are able to ward off our sinfull natures. I no longer fear the wages of sin because I now have an advocate "CHRIST JESUS" I can call out to for help in my time of need who helps me fight against this sin that causes death. We are all slaves to what has mastered us and if sin has mastered us then it will lead to death. If Christ has mastered us then we abide in HIS Spirit and this is what has set us free from the law of death.
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Because:
Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
He is the one we go to and say we did it wrong again, be my strength and help me to do it right this time. He is the one who helps us to do it and then we are able to overcome it. And once the desires of the Spirit are met, it does away with the sinful desires. It makes us not want to do them again, because we know that in not doing them we are pleasing to HIM.
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gideon army
Am the Righteousness to GOD IN Christ by Faith
Believe there's still so many who boast of themselves or behold their own Gory rather than Christ Glory.
To those who keeps harping on the Law in whichever form it's presented, ask yourself this questions:-
(1) Was Abraham ever rebuked by the LORD when he LIED (Bearing False Witness twice & yet GOD Defended/Prospered Abraham
) Doubted GOD by laughing at GOD prophecy that he have a son (Isn't this going against the 1st & 2nd Commandments? ), LImited GOD (when asking GOD if HE'll spare Sodom & Gomorrah ).
(2) Isaac made the same mistake as Abraham in Bearing false witness which is against the commandment of Moses
(3) Jacob was just as Bad, he Lied to his daddy Isaac when it comes to being bless & even from the womb, he kept grabbing everything Did GOD rebuke Jacob?
(4) Was the Children of Israel afflicted/suffered whenever they Doubted GOD or complained against HIM & contrast it with the Children of Israel Boasted:-"of what the LORD says, we can do" at Mount Sanai?
Come on, there isn't any LAWS no more to the Believers & It's little Wonder that MIXED Covenants preached into Churches that causes the Church of Christ to be WEAK/SICK & DIE early.
Now, we have the Holy Spirit within us to give us the wants instead of 'Must Do', GOD wants all the GLORY hence HE must do all the Work in the Believer!!!
To those who keeps harping on the Law in whichever form it's presented, ask yourself this questions:-
(1) Was Abraham ever rebuked by the LORD when he LIED (Bearing False Witness twice & yet GOD Defended/Prospered Abraham
) Doubted GOD by laughing at GOD prophecy that he have a son (Isn't this going against the 1st & 2nd Commandments? ), LImited GOD (when asking GOD if HE'll spare Sodom & Gomorrah ).(2) Isaac made the same mistake as Abraham in Bearing false witness which is against the commandment of Moses
(3) Jacob was just as Bad, he Lied to his daddy Isaac when it comes to being bless & even from the womb, he kept grabbing everything
Did GOD rebuke Jacob? (4) Was the Children of Israel afflicted/suffered whenever they Doubted GOD or complained against HIM & contrast it with the Children of Israel Boasted:-"of what the LORD says, we can do" at Mount Sanai?
Come on, there isn't any LAWS no more to the Believers & It's little Wonder that MIXED Covenants preached into Churches that causes the Church of Christ to be WEAK/SICK & DIE early.
Now, we have the Holy Spirit within us to give us the wants instead of 'Must Do', GOD wants all the GLORY hence HE must do all the Work in the Believer!!!
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Galatians 2:21
Saved by Grace
If you try to please God by works, you will neither do good works nor please God. If you have faith that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and you accept the fact that you cannot be trusted to do good deeds, then you will experience the love of God. And out of that love, you will see that the old ways of living are a waste and also separate you from God's love, so you end up choosing to do the right thing anyway.
It's funny how God works. If you do it your own way, you will get neither what you are working for nor what God has planned for you to have. But if you do it Gods way, you will get what God has planned for you, and EVERYTHING ELSE YOU COULD EVER WANT. For instance when God told King Solomon that he could have ANY one thing in the world, and God would grant the request. Solomon could have chosen women, endless riches, increased power, anything... but he chose to have WISDOM, a greater understanding of God. God was so pleased with Solomon that he ended up making him the wisest person to ever exist, and in addition, everything else he desired.... women, riches, power....
It's funny how God works. If you do it your own way, you will get neither what you are working for nor what God has planned for you to have. But if you do it Gods way, you will get what God has planned for you, and EVERYTHING ELSE YOU COULD EVER WANT. For instance when God told King Solomon that he could have ANY one thing in the world, and God would grant the request. Solomon could have chosen women, endless riches, increased power, anything... but he chose to have WISDOM, a greater understanding of God. God was so pleased with Solomon that he ended up making him the wisest person to ever exist, and in addition, everything else he desired.... women, riches, power....
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Sure, total obedience would be a much better way, but when I turn to Romans 3:23, it clearly reads all have fallen short of the glory of God. Let's keep the conversation to where it applies to all of us.
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Better yet, God called him "RIGHTEOUS"
We, know Abraham went to Egypt when he was not told to do so. As when God calls man and wife, "one flesh" Abraham still turned his wife over to the pharoh. God made Abraham a promise of a child yet he followed the suggestion of sleeping with the maidservant.
I don't think you realize the deep meaning of being called righteous by God.
Abraham wasn't perfect, he just had FAITH.
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LH
Jesus said
Jn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Paul said the Jews have the oracles!
Rom 3
1: What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2: Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
and
1: I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2: That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3: For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Isaiah said
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
we have God (Jesus)
we have to great prophets(Isaiah and Paul)
answering your question
this is what I believe, know,
why?
because I read it!
to answer your question
Jesus dictates what we are to beleive by using his word given to his people for ALL mankind to follow!
who gave this word to man?
who where the men he gave it to?
what are their nationality?
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Galatians 2:21
Saved by Grace
You are only taking part of what Jesus said into consideration! You read "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets" and "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven" But look closely; He says "I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." To FULFILL them. The law POINTS to Jesus Christ because we know we cannot be righteous to God on our own, for if we commit only ONE sin, we are not good enough. Jesus talks with the abscence of grace because... oh wait... grace hasn't been fulfilled yet! He hasn't died for the sins of mankind yet! The law shows us that we are sinful, and compltely un-righteous. But Christ, being the only righteous person to ever walk the planet, traded our sins for His righteousness. So when he says "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven" He means that we can only enter heaven if we make the trade with Him, and accept his righteousness.
The verse I chose to be my name for this forum is Galatians 2:21 which applies PERFECTLY to this situation. "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" I believe sin is devistating to your walk with God, and hurts non-believer's view of Christianity, but I think I've proven my point that sinning after accepting Christ WILL NOT affect your salvation.
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NatalieJan777
Humbled before GOD
I do not take one verse and make it my life. I take what the bible says throughout in order to understand what is being said.
Hebrews 12:14-15 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to GOD, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect.
Hebrews 12:25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?
Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 8:7-8 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation - but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
I know what Jesus is saying to me and I have carefully weighed and considered it all.
Peace in CHRIST JESUS,
Nat
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NatalieJan777
Humbled before GOD
Here is what I have obtained by the study of Galatians in light of the full gospel of GOD old and new.
Supervision of the Laws are no longer by man but by GOD's Holy Spirit, given through Faith in Christ Jesus. It all is in reference to the difference between the covenants, the Old being circumscision of the flesh done by man and the new circumscision of the Spirit, done by GOD. They are all still GOD's Laws whether through Moses or through the Holy Spirit.
If Jesus meant that HIS grace extended to those who wish to continue in their sinfull nature HE would not have went to the extent of clarifying the laws. HE would have been honest and forthright as this is what HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS is and told the people to disregaurd the Laws because HE was going to forgive all of their wickedness whether they repented or not. I will not adhere to or teach such a gospel of lies.
Full righteousness cannot be obtained by adherance to the law alone, even when this is done we all fall short of HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, here is where the grace of CHRIST JESUS takes over and makes us perfect. Do not be led into believing that disobedience to GOD's Laws will gain you enterance into HIS KINGDOM.
Supervision of the Laws are no longer by man but by GOD's Holy Spirit, given through Faith in Christ Jesus. It all is in reference to the difference between the covenants, the Old being circumscision of the flesh done by man and the new circumscision of the Spirit, done by GOD. They are all still GOD's Laws whether through Moses or through the Holy Spirit.
If Jesus meant that HIS grace extended to those who wish to continue in their sinfull nature HE would not have went to the extent of clarifying the laws. HE would have been honest and forthright as this is what HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS is and told the people to disregaurd the Laws because HE was going to forgive all of their wickedness whether they repented or not. I will not adhere to or teach such a gospel of lies.
Full righteousness cannot be obtained by adherance to the law alone, even when this is done we all fall short of HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, here is where the grace of CHRIST JESUS takes over and makes us perfect. Do not be led into believing that disobedience to GOD's Laws will gain you enterance into HIS KINGDOM.
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Just because they are building a temple to sacrifice animals does not mean it is God approved. Many Jews deny that Jesus has come to earth yet.
Perhaps my words don't mean much, let's use one of your own references in post 51 of Faithful servant of the Lord's house.
Hebrews 8:8, God found fault with the people of Isreal.
I know you have misinterpurted the verse in Hebrews 10. I ask you reread it from Isreals point of view. These people sacrificed animals for 100's of years, now Jesus, the son God is sacrificed, which far exceeds the ability of any animal sacrifice.
8:26 Once they had heard the knowledge of truth, Jesus sacrifice, there is no more sacrificing necessary.
Once they fall back into animal sacrifice again there will be judgement upon them, for if they put the animal above Jesus it would be as if trampling the Son of God under foot.
This sounds like a warning to what you say they are going to do, with going back to animal sacrifice.
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Galatians 2:21
Saved by Grace
What I am trying to point out is the MOTIVE people have for following the Law. I totally agree with you that people who wish to live a life in their sinful nature will not enter heaven, but I am trying to explain WHY. Christ died for our sins, so it's not that we MUST follow the law, but that we WANT to do the will of God because that is how non-Christians will know we are genuine. "So then, you will know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:20. And we want to avoid sin beecause it harms our relationship with God.
People don't like to teach grace because they are afraid people will go back to the old way of living, which won't happen if they really understand the power of God's love. When one experiences the transforming power of God's love, their eyes will be opened to how worthless and pointless sin is, and will choose not to do it, and will choose to do God's will.
If at any point a Christian feels guilty for sinning, then they are letting the Law control them, and they are not living under grace. When you let the Law control you, then you are basing God's work on fear of damnation. "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18. So when you take out the Law, and apply only grace, you will experience love so powerful that we no longer desire sin. "They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity--for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him." 2 Peter 2:19. If you love God because of all he has done for you (grace), you will be a slave to Him, and it will bring you joy to follow His will.
One last thing:
If you feel shame from sin, it is a result of the pride from doing God's will being broken down. If you feel pride, it means you subconsciously think you can do it on your own. But there is no "you" anymore, "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20. The only "you" that is left is your sinful nature.
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I agree with you on this LH, yet they will build a temple.
why do you think I misinterpreted? maybe its you.
Yes Jesus sacrifice far exceeds a animal sacrifice. YOU ARE RIGHT!
Jesus sacrifce replaced animal sacrifce.
also for us christians if we keep sinning after Jesus came and died for our past sins we trample his sacrifice for us underfoot.
what do you think?
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Galatians 2:21
Saved by Grace
No that is completely false. Jesus died for ALL sin, which means past, present, and future.
If you believe Christian's don't sin, you are greatly mistaken. Even Paul says in Romans 7 "For in my inner being I delight in Gods law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?"
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People are still sinning so how can he have died for your future sins.
People who have excepted Jesus will not sin wilfully once they come to the knowledge of the God's word
lets read about what sins Jesus died for
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Paul also said
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
who is the sacrifce in Paul day and ours?
so if we sin wilfully after we know the truth, what have we done to Jesus sacrifce?
is this false? you read it!
keep note that this is after Jesus death and resurrection, LONG AFTER!
we can sin wilfully even after Jesus has died for our sins?
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